Off-ball movement

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Skills, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. Apr 1, 2019
    #41

    Aloysius's Back 3 Full Member

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    It's not about passing range. It's about passing speed and the passing area.

    Liverpool's midfield on paper is weak - but they get the good deal done because they play quick on the floor passes in front of the attacker.

    Whilst everyone goes on blaming the runs of our attackers - do people really think Herrera or Matic are suddenly playing these 'through balls' instead of the ones that we all see that are straight to feet and all about making sure the attacker gets the ball easily with no mistake - even if the attacker has to drop deep to receive them?

    The amount of time I see martial & Rashford attempt to make a run but then stop to drop back in to space to receive a ball to feet is crazy.
  2. Apr 1, 2019
    #42

    Maticmaker Full Member

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    There is only Lingard who does any running off the ball on a regular basis, in that sense he is our best player 'without the ball', his diversionary runs should make space for others, but as has been said previously, its mainly straight line runs when they do occur!
  3. Apr 1, 2019
    #43

    Sunny Jim Full Member

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    Funny that i was going to start a thread about this issue.
  4. Apr 1, 2019
    #44

    Aloysius's Back 3 Full Member

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    And again does Lingard runs get the ball from the midfield or Rashford & martial themselves? Lingard makes the opposing run to the runs martial & Rashford make with the ball at their feet.

    He doesn't do the running when the midfield has the ball because none of them make through balls in between the defenders to run in to.
  5. Apr 1, 2019
    #45

    JJ12 Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

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    Off the ball movement is what's holding Martial back from being great.

    He's far too static and predictable.
  6. Apr 1, 2019
    #46

    Nick7 Full Member

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    Yeah, he's so frustrating.
  7. Apr 1, 2019
    #47

    Skills Snitch

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    I made this in January 2018 :nervous:
  8. Apr 1, 2019
    #48

    georgipep New Member

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    You, and everyone else here who points to the Cardiff game, must be out of your mind if you think that the players were able to follow new tactical instructions in their first game with the new manager, but haven't been able ever since. The Cardiff game was an emotional bounce after changing managers.

    Tactics take time to be ingrained on the team. I would reserve judgement on pressing and movement as a team effort until after the summer break. If come August they are still static and reactive, then apparently they are not trained enough and/or well.

    There is something else to be taken in consideration and @Hoof The Ball's post is right on the money: if we don't have the proper coaches to take the team forward, it's Ole's job to find and bring them in.
  9. Apr 1, 2019
    #49

    Hoof The Ball Full Member

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    There's a lot of pressure these days, sometimes from fans, for the manager of the team to be both a supreme coach and man-manager extraordinaire. Such combination of attributes are few and far between, indeed. Even our greatest manager, Sir Alex Ferguson, adept as he was tactically, understood that delegation was the key to success in the ever-evolving game. I loved that about him. He cared little for sentimentality in his organisational approach. Never rested upon the laurels of previous successes. That's why he was able to lead United through so many club transitions whilst maintaining success throughout.

    I care more that Ole has Sir Alex's mind for management than whether he matches Guardiola in tactical nous. If Ole can get the right people round him we can close the tactical bridge with a structure of brilliant coaches. Of course, for all the tactical insight that Pep himself has, it's seldom mentioned that he himself is surrounded by an entourage of tactically advanced coaching staff. I don't mean that to demean Pep, but rather praise the mentality that reduces an over-reliance upon one man's ideas.
  10. Apr 1, 2019
    #50

    Kag Full Member

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    At times, we have. There is lots of work to do, however.

    Most of our players receive pelters because most of the people posting in their player threads are halfwits.
  11. Apr 1, 2019
    #51

    Patrick08 Full Member

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    True, Matic and pogba really take too much time on the ball and when they do pass it quickly the forwards are not in a right position to receive it and do any damage as their movement is also poor, specially of the likes of lukaku and martial.
  12. Apr 2, 2019
    #52

    TRUERED89 New Member

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    Lingard makes so many runs in behind that get ignored by our midfield 95% of the time, really obvious and easy passes too.
  13. Apr 2, 2019
    #53

    DWelbz19 Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

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    Deep seated issue.

    Better players will improve it of course, but it’s something that needs to be coached out of most of our current team.
  14. Apr 2, 2019
    #54

    deadrevelz Banned

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    Agreed. Everything is becoming more specialised these days and football is no exception. I wonder though in the future the position of 'manager' will gradually fade from prominence in favour of a head coach / DoF combination. The times they are a changin.
  15. Apr 2, 2019
    #55

    deadrevelz Banned

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    Off-ball movement = more please.
  16. Apr 2, 2019
    #56

    LeftyBlaster Full Member

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    I've said this quite often here but nobody really seems to recognise it. As a team though, we have improved in this aspect under Ole but there's still room for better stuff.
  17. Apr 2, 2019
    #57

    Grande Full Member

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    Ole himself adressed this point in a recent interview. It’s clear from his first interviews, the first games and his last interviews what he wants in this regard. It’s also clear from five years of LVG and Mourinho, our fatigue in games and injury list in february that our players have not been adequately trained for this. Automation is not learned in a few months mid-season, and off-ball-movement is the first to go when players are exerting themselves beyond their current physical limitations. That is not much improvable neither mid-season.

    Pep’s million-£ City started brightly yet faltered heavily and came third three points ahead of fifth in his first season. Heavy investment and a full pre season made a big difference.

    Comparing Ole’s project with the most successfull and efficient point collector in history at an in effect even richer club than United is probably not fair. Getting towards the absolute top in a United fashion is a bit more long term goal than two seasons. If Ole repeated Pep’s start with City, including the ten straight opening wins, we’d not only be out of FA Cup, but also wouldn’t be in the CL yet and wouldn’t have had a chance at the fourth spot, so I think it’s sensible that Ole’s taken a pragmatic view this season to get the points in while competing on three fronts.
  18. Apr 2, 2019
    #58

    Trizy Banned

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    Did the issue look to disappear for the first 5-6 games because of Lingard? It's no secret his movement off the ball is his best asset. Maybe also Lukaku? His movement out right adds more movement to the game.

    As much as I love Martial, his movement is that of a dead cat.

    Pep would have a heart attack trying to coach our lads movement. Even our midfield, completely dead.
  19. Apr 2, 2019
    #59

    wilkie1990 New Member

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    Pep would have a field day coaching Lingard, think he would turn him into a top top player personally.
  20. Apr 2, 2019
    #60

    NoLogo Full Member

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    We seriously need to fix the mentality of these players. Our movement is so bad and we are so slow for 75% of each game. It's crazy. How many times do we see a player on the ball just for there to be no movement anywhere on the pitch. No runs, no offering of passing options, nothing.

    And it's not only our attacking movement that sucks donkey testicles, our pressing is equally bad, one man closes down, stops 2 meters in front of the opposition players and of course that player easily passes to the next player because no one else bothered to close down any passing lanes.

    Oh yeah and while we are at it, anyone has a stat how many second balls we have won in this game? Must be fairly close to zero. Best example Shaw 5 meters of the ball, the ball coming in his direction is second on the ball to Diogo Jota because he is deep asleep and reacts way to slow.
  21. Apr 2, 2019
    #61

    reddevil80 New Member

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    Movement, I think, only seems to exist for the first 15-20 minutes with. Cracking start then back to Fred slipping everywhere he puts his feet or DdG giving out suicide passes. Lukaku is so stationery, looks like he neess the ball only at his feet as he hasn't moved most of the game. Sick of seeing this stationery shit
  22. Apr 2, 2019
    #62

    Murder on Zidane's Floor You'd better not kill Giroud

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    Absolutely not, would sell him.
  23. Apr 2, 2019
    #63

    Aloysius's Back 3 Full Member

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    Movement is not the cause - its the lack of passing.

    When the passing is there the movement coexists as a reaction as seen by our chances in the first 20 mins.

    When it's not - we get static players waiting for a pass for them.

    Lindelof & Pogba are overrated passers whilst the rest are average at it.
  24. Apr 2, 2019
    #64

    billybee99 New Member

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    Lingard wouldn't get anywhere near a Pep team.
  25. Apr 2, 2019
    #65

    100 binary bot

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    We're fecking hilarious from throw-ins. Every player just stands and looks at the person taking the throw
  26. Apr 2, 2019
    #66

    NoLogo Full Member

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    I think movement has to be there first. We too often look for a pass behind the defense but if that isn't possible are pretty clueless what to do. Wolves showed pretty great how you can create space against a deep standing opponent by players dropping deep and other players making runs into the space opening up while they let the ball circle quickly. Those hoof balls everyone complains about, they are often the result of no one dropping deep and offering shorter passing options. If you ask me the main problem is that the team is either too lazy too keep moving for 90 minutes or not fit enough, either one is really not befitting a professional football team in the PL especially not one team that wants to be part of the top 4 in this league.
  27. Apr 2, 2019
    #67

    Jericholyte2 Full Member

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    THIS is our biggest problem, so many times against defensively organised teams we have no movement to pull on their lines or to commit players away from their positions.

    So many times tonight I was screaming at the team to just move.
  28. Apr 13, 2019
    #68

    NinjaFletch Full Member

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    It's so, so bad – Martial and Lukaku in particular must be amongst the worst players in the league in terms of making runs.

    The second Rashford comes on we start finding gaps in behind. Quelle surprise.
  29. Apr 13, 2019
    #69

    izec Full Member

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  30. Apr 13, 2019
    #70

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    Atrocious, atrocious and atrocious
  31. Apr 13, 2019
    #71

    Freak Born a freak always a freak.

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    It’s absolutely terrible. Rashford is the only one who does it. The rest are all statues.
  32. Apr 13, 2019
    #72

    Adam Robertson New Member

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    Are we not doing training between matches? It feels like pre-season games.
  33. Apr 13, 2019
    #73

    Raw Full Member

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    It's so bad. It's weird how we actually showed good movement when Ole arrived, now that's just gone completely.
  34. Apr 13, 2019
    #74

    BringNaniBack Leaves a bullshit trail behind him

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    Yep it was very noticeable today. Our forwards are awful at making runs into space. It's basic football so I'm baffled as to why we struggle with this aspect of the game so much.
  35. Apr 13, 2019
    #75

    Hoof The Ball Full Member

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    I bet if you were to check the heat maps of our games this season, you'd find that most players were either on the left side of the field, or just left of the central area. My theory is that teams know that with Shaw, Pogba and Martial all left that our play just constantly recycles out there all match and all they have to do is defensively load that area and it's a shut out.

    It's become quite obvious that we have no interest in right side overload or overlap. The best it gets is a switched ball and a cross. Shaw gets way more passing and interplay options on his side than Young, for example, gets on his side.
  36. Apr 13, 2019
    #76

    Suedesi Full Member

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    True words.
  37. Apr 13, 2019
    #77

    deadrevelz Banned

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    Truly horrific.

    How hard is it to move into space? It's the main reason Pogba has been crap recently... no options for the pass. It's unforgivable.
  38. Apr 13, 2019
    #78

    Eleven-Eighteen New Member

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    Off the ball movement? You mean, players are supposed to move when the ball is not physically touching their feet?
  39. Apr 13, 2019
    #79

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

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    Same as players not able to receive and control the ball.
  40. Apr 13, 2019
    #80

    FreakyJim Full Member

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    I don't know if you guys have ever tried moving off the ball but I have (albeit on a much smaller pitch) and it creates a weird shortness of breath and general feeling of unease and awkwardness. Completely understand why our players try to avoid it. It's unpleasant.