Oil Money in Football | New City expose

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Pogue Mahone, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. Dec 5, 2018

    endless_wheelies feeling dizzy

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    Even as a United fan I have absolutely no problem with City's spending whatsoever.

    How is Barcelona, Real Madrid, ourselves being able to outspend every club beneath us year after year a level playing field? Not only that, how is Barcelona, Real Madrid and ourselves being able to outspend those clubs INDEFINITELY fair as we prohibit the equalising investment from wealthy owners that bridge the gap? How does that encourage growth and competition within the game?

    People on this forum whinge incessantly about Manchester City gaining an unfair advantage over us through their owners and ourselves being unable to compete with Manchester City's spending... bull. Even if they are diddling their accounts they still officially record their revenue as less than our own - we CAN outspend them, we SHOULD be outspending them, it's just that our unbelievably appalling owners choose to skim off the top for their own gain rather than investing what we earn. Whether Manchester City's owners are only at their club to improve their own image has no tangible impact on how they run the club - they are brilliant owners. We should be rising to meet them, not dragging them down.

    There is an argument that mega-rich owners could ruin the game by simply outspending every other club that does not have a rich owner, but then you need to find a BALANCE to distinguish fair from unfair competition, and the current rules prohibiting any supplementary investment in the playing squad are so skewed on this scale it's unreal. A far fairer method would be that outside owners can spend an extra £100m per season up until their club starts making a certain amount of revenue, at which point it goes down to £75m, and incrementally so on. Saying they can't invest any of their money at all a la UEFA's FFP is abhorrent.
  2. Dec 5, 2018

    Oly Francis New Member

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    Most historical clubs had at one point a negative impact on football. Juventus with Calciopoli and links with the mafia, Real madrid and most spanish clubs were bailed out when their government erased tax debts, Bayern Munich uses its influence in Germany to systematically raid the best players in their league, Chelsea got lucky to find a sugar daddy before FPF (and english clubs benefit from lower corporate taxes) etc.

    FPF is necessary, but it's also necessary to let new investors enter the game or it would mean that a new wealthy clubs should wait 40 years to win a title, it wouldn't make any sense. There's a balance to find.
  3. Dec 5, 2018

    Bugs Bunny New Member

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    Ever heard of J W Gibson?

    Different scale of course, but he was the ultimate sugar daddy. Literally saved United from liquidation with his investment.
  4. Dec 5, 2018

    Denis_unwise New Member

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    I wish City fans would stop equating what Gibson did for us to what Mansour is doing at City. The two circumstances are vastly different. The difference is we didn't keep going back to Gibson every year asking for more money. We received an initial investment & then had to sort ourselves out to become self-sustaining. There is nothing wrong with this in my view. You have been receiving investment for 10 years & still show no signs of being able to support yourself. Your latest financials even state you are still heavily reliant on Mansours financial support.
  5. Dec 5, 2018

    Oly Francis New Member

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    Well, to be fair, Manchester United has the highest debt (570M) in the world for a football club, so technically, you rely on bank money... The only difference being the fact that when they need money PSG or City go to their shareholders when Man Utd goes to a bank.
  6. Dec 6, 2018

    Denis_unwise New Member

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    What in hell's name are you talking about. We are a totally self-sufficient club. We do not receive any bank or sugar daddy investment. The debt we have is due to the Glazers lending from the banks to buy the club. The club was highly profitable & debt free before the Glazers buy out. We are still highly profitable & easily able to pay off the bank loans. The club is worth between £3 - 4 Bill on the open market. If the Glazers ran into difficulties it wouldn't be a problem. They could easily sell the club & still walk away with a tidy profit.

    The situation with PSG & City is totally different. You were loss making clubs before the takeovers. You now have huge wage bills, outstanding transfer fees & various other liabilities. The ability to pay all this off is entirely dependent on your owners. If they decide they can't or won't pay then your lights go out.
  7. Dec 6, 2018

    grahamo Full Member

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    I had a horrible dream last night. City won the PL by 9 points. FFP officials docked them 10 points and the PL title was awarded to Liverpool. Nooooooooooooo!
  8. Dec 6, 2018

    Oly Francis New Member

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    That's only partially true, Man Utd debts was far lower 3 or 4 years ago, then it increased drastically because of the lack of ECL participation.

    I've never said PSG or City are more profitable than United, i'm just saying you rely on bank money and like many companies, United would have to make sacrifices should the banks decide to pull the plug (very unlikely). Actually, the virtue of a well designed FPF would be to limit the dependance on shareholder and i totally admit that it would be problematic for us if Qatar was to leave suddenly. I'm really happy each an every time a outside sponsor replaces one from Qatar because it lowers this dependance. The probleme with the FPF the way it currently is, is the fact that when you buy a club, you don't even have a couple of years to invest to try to catch up, so you force investors to use strategies to circumvent the rules.

    Don't get fooled, I'm a PSG fan, meaning I don't want my club to go bankrupt if Qatar leaves, I'm just saying it's ill-designed right now.
  9. Dec 6, 2018

    stevoc Full Member

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    And Solskjær has won it!
    Huh?

    When have United ever relied on large bank loans to fund transfers etc?

    United's debt increased because of Brexit and the collapse of the pound.
  10. Dec 6, 2018

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    Without checking I'm assuming it's because of change in conversion rate, fall of Pound vs USD.

    You need to do some basic research on why we are in debt,
  11. Dec 6, 2018

    piesel New Member

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    Oh come on, this shows what a lousy job italian media did to tell this story. Also calciopoli was a lot more complex affair than what the average sports media told.
  12. Dec 6, 2018

    Oly Francis New Member

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    You're mainly in debt because your owner chose not to spend their own money in order to buy the club and prefered to accumule debts instead. I'm a corporate lawyer, I know how LBOs work.
  13. Dec 7, 2018

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    So club don't go to bank like PSG and City goes to owners? If anything we spend club money and then even feed the owners. Complete opposite to City and PSG.
  14. Dec 7, 2018

    AP88 Full Member

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    City fans on Bluegoon slating De Jong for joining league-monopolising PSG, because of money. Those chimps really are something else
  15. Dec 8, 2018

    SteveJ all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian Scout

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  16. Dec 8, 2018

    MAME DIOUF 32 Full Member

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    Hilarious that people inside City saying they won't be banned is reported with such authority. It's like a robber telling a judge what sentence he should get. Probably accurate though.
  17. Dec 8, 2018

    marukomu The Gatekeeper

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    All the dodgy deals going on. Pep is like the Wilson Fisk of football. They're both fecking slapheads, too.
  18. Dec 8, 2018

    ROFLUTION Full Member

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    Good imagery. It seems to be a crooked judge though.
  19. Dec 8, 2018

    WensleyMU New Member

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    A poster asked me to post this video, assuming they can't post links.



    @Drygon
  20. Dec 24, 2018

    hellohello Full Member

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    Any news on this? Is it just getting swept under the rug?
  21. Dec 24, 2018

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt

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    What did you expect?
  22. Dec 24, 2018

    Guy Incognito Full Member

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    Of course, everyone knew this would happen.
  23. Dec 25, 2018

    Ecstatic Full Member

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    True that PSG was poorly managed by American shareholders Colony Capital, which could explain the very limited losses (maybe 2 or 3 millions in some years).

    That said, PSG is the only club which represents Paris and its suburb at the high level, the capital of a leading football country in this sport. It means the club has always had strong business fundamentals.

    This.

    From a financial standpoint, shareholders and banks have the same role which is to fund a business; and they both expect a return: dividends or interests.

    You shareholders wants to earn money now and use the famous leverage effect to boost a return on equity. Qatar will earn money much later.

    Qatar will get their money back in the long run, especially when they will sell the club. In the meantime, the club is becoming an international brand.

    The club was acquired for 50 millions and this is the end of a ramp-up period, the club could become a cash cow in the 2020s.
  24. Jan 3, 2019

    Sassy Colin Death or the gladioli!

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  25. Jan 3, 2019

    Catt The least positive person in match threads ever

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    CL here we come.
  26. Jan 3, 2019

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt

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  27. Jan 3, 2019

    InfiniteBoredom Full Member

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    UEFA is re-auditting their books and they may face a CL ban.
  28. Jan 3, 2019

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt

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    Thanks. Don't hold out much hope for it though. UEFA aren't going to reduce the value of their competition, there's no chance of that.
  29. Jan 3, 2019

    bleedred Full Member

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    They will issue a ban. City will fight it in CAS and will finally settle with UEFA for a fine and possibly transfer ban/squad limitation.
  30. Jan 3, 2019

    yumtum DUX' bumchum

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    Basically means they want their Christmas bonuses so City better cough up.
  31. Jan 3, 2019

    mav_9me Full Member

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    Part of a more interesting thread.
  32. Jan 3, 2019

    Buchan has whacked the hammer to Roswell

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    I agree with you, but surely allowing City into their premier club competition after such blatant cheating they are devaluing it, no?
  33. Jan 3, 2019

    lysglimt Full Member

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    Since you are a Corporate lawyer - you should be able to answer this question:

    Do you think you should be punished if you break the law ?
  34. Jan 3, 2019

    Sassy Colin Death or the gladioli!

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    :lol:
  35. Jan 3, 2019

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt

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    TV companies don't care about FFP. Removing City would reduce the commercial value of the TV package. That's all UEFA cares about.
  36. Jan 3, 2019

    Wayne's World Full Member

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    Is it true that the Etihad isn't going to be full tonight? Biggest game of the season and they are still not filling the stadium on a huge evening

    Shambles of a football club
  37. Jan 3, 2019

    GifLord The gif that keeps on giffing

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  38. Jan 3, 2019

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt

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    Gilluminatti.
  39. Jan 3, 2019

    ash_86 Full Member

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  40. Jan 3, 2019

    Sassy Colin Death or the gladioli!

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    Why? They don't have any fans anyway, no one would miss them. If it meant Arse made it in to the CL, then that would be in the competition's favour, in terms of viewing figures.