Ole Gunnar Solskjær | Permanent manager

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Samid, Mar 28, 2019.

  1. May 13, 2019

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    Yup. We should forget about targets like winning the title for right now. Get back to building a quality, be able to put out a starting 11 of quality players and still leave space for youth to get chances. Thatll take a few years in itself, any trophies would be a bonus. See where we're at in 2-3 years and what we need to get the added push. That all starts with truly fixing our defense and midfield.
  2. May 13, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

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    Either compare their full careers and say Zidane shits on Ole from unbelievable height or compare his second stint with Ole's complete ManUtd career and draw whatever conclusion you want to. Starting to get Glaston vibe with these selective stats.

    Permanent or Caretaker means nothing. It was Ole back then as manager and it's Ole as Manager now.

    You don't like someone? Fine. Stop with this mental gymnastics. You don't even need all this shit to argue Solskjaer haven't done well.
  3. May 13, 2019

    Regulus Arcturus Black Full Member

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    The one thing that will convince me that Ole, Phelan, Carrick and co. know what they are doing is if they bring in a World Class centre back and right back. Anything else at this stage is a bonus.
    If we ignore that area of the pitch or "take a chance" on someone cheap I'll be tearing my hair out.

    SAF left a back 4 of:
    Valencia Ferdinand Vidic Evra

    We won that last title because our back four was absolutely incredible, composed and and we had RVP up front. So many other areas can be ignored if you just have incredible defenders that are all excellent footballers.

    There are 3 World Class footballers there, how with all this money spent and so many transfer windows past have we not replaced at least 2 of those World Class defenders? It's insanity of the highest degree. Every single new manager has failed to fix it. Mourinho finally last Summer decided that was our priority numero uno, but obviously we know how that worked out.
  4. May 13, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    What's the point in arguing it afterwards when we lose another season? Why do we have to wait for shit to hit the fan before taking appropriate measures? Didn't we learn anything from hiring inappropriate managers over and over again?

    Ole gets the sack midseason. Another one comes in, but you can't evaluate him until you give him another summer or two. Then we buy more deadwood for the next manager, who again has to bring his own players. When this shit merry go-round will end?

    Why not act now and give a proper manager the summer window and time to rebuild. Why do we have to experiment with Ole?

    The whole comparison is fecking stupid which is the reason I called him out for. It's nothing selective about it. As you said it's either full careers or since both have been appointed for their current stints.

    It's not really mental gymnastics. Ole has done well and got the permanent job. He got promoted on the basis of those 10-15 games in the beginning of the year. Since he got the job - relegation form - shouldn't he be evaluated based on those same number of games he got the promotion first or he should get a free pass and couple of seasons down the drain, just because he was appointed prematurely?

    Di Matteo won CL - got the perm job. Was sacked after couple of months with much better results than Ole has shown since he was appointed.

    If you are using another manager as a comparison Di Matteo should be one - caretaker with little to no experience at top level, not Zidane, Klopp or Pep.

    People moan over and over that we have overpaid primadonnas collecting their paycheck and giving zero fecks for the shirt, but it's the money that drove them to United first place - not inexperienced manager and Thursday night football.

    If United appoint a top manager with proven credentials in the Summer, have DoF in place. Clear plan for the future and tons of cash to back him up - this would be much more appealing project than what we have now.
  5. May 13, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

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    If the whole comparison is stupid then call it instead of going all Glaston.

    He might go on to be a Di Matteo or good choice, it's a different discussion, doesn't mean we have to start twisting facts based on Permanent and Caretaker tag. It doesn't make sense. Anyways I have said everything I had to on this topic. I'm done with this.

    I just find it hilarious that people take it so personally that they start to twist everything to suit their agenda.
  6. May 13, 2019

    Regulus Arcturus Black Full Member

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    Why?

    Because neither you, nor I, know that we will lose another season. Because the club have hired a manager and it would be their most ridiculous decision yet to fire him now if they believed in him, Phelan, Carrick and co. and their project just 7-8 weeks ago.
    If the club, and by club I mean much more than Ed, I mean the advisory board and everyone else behind the scenes has belief in that project/plan, then why the feck would you cancel everything because of a bad run of results with a squad that not even the great Jose Mourinho could get a tune out of?
    Contacts with players and agents are already in place, a Summer plan is in place regarding sales, recruitment, training etc.
    But yeah, rip that up now because we've had a shit run of results.

    Do you even hear how that sounds?
  7. May 13, 2019

    ash_86 Full Member

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    If you want to look at second stint then look at the day they both started at respective clubs. Ole the manager got appointed in December and the same is the manager now. Both the good and bad he's done should be rightfully credited to him. If you don't want to do this, then fine. What ever that gets you sleep.
  8. May 13, 2019

    rotherham_red Full Member

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    A good Twitter thread for the doom merchants and provides a good amount of context to what has happened and gives a fair account of what we saw in that early period.

    I'm dumbfounded that this has to be said in the first place, but the standard of debate and football knowledge on the caf, as with social media as a whole, has regressed to an alarming degree.

    Do I believe that Ole will definitely take us back? Of course not, because there are no definites. But I will at least give him the chance to set us on the path. Four different managers have now come in, two of whom are some of the greatest to have been in the role and they couldn't achieve what they needed to. I would be more than happy to give him a chance simply because those first 13 games were some of the best football I've seen from us in years and he was responsible for the most elated feeling I have ever felt for the club in the post-SAF era. Jose, LvG et al had the record but Ole more than trumped what they did in 4 years in as little as a couple of months.

    If it doesn't work out then fine, but people going on like he'll ruin us. Get some perspective, ffs. We can't get any worse! Jose had us on the verge of being overtaken by fecking Wolves, ffs! For us to even be in the conversation for the Top 4 at all, let alone in Week 37 was nothing short of a miracle.

    Yes it petered out, but like the thread says, I saw more than enough in those early weeks to give him a chance. He juggled with injuries, played top sides, and handled every potential setback during that run and still got us the results, so it's not as if he couldn't handle adversity or deal with bigger sides. The players simply ran out of juice. A lot of them aren't good enough and will be phased out during the course of the next couple of years but it's absolutely crucial that he gets backed.
  9. May 13, 2019

    Chesterlestreet Man of the crowd

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    There's such a thing as realism. If I thought there was half a chance Woody was actually considering firing him and bringing in someone "proper" (who would you favour, out of interest?), I'd certainly be willing to discuss whether this should be done: I'm far from convinced Ole will be a success.

    But he won't a) be hired permanently b) have his assistant manager confirmed with one match of the season to go c) state publicly that the real job starts now only to d) get fired before a move has been made.

    So, get over it for now. There's nothing else to do but wait and see who he brings in (and lets go).
  10. May 13, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    I haven’t really twisted anything. I don’t know how other feel about it but clearly after getting the job there’s something wrong.

    Ole’s approach has been different and our football is glaringly different.

    You don’t want to break those two periods - fine. But to me they should be different in terms of expectations and pressure and clearly the pressure of getting the full time job got to him.

    We have seen managers evaluated on 10-15 games before - getting the job and then getting the sack (Di Matteo).

    Why should Ole be different?

    We don’t have DoF who chose him. We don’t have different structure, nor we invested heavily to back him. Who not build the foundations this Summer?
  11. May 13, 2019

    7even Resident moaner, hypocrite and moron

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    You look at it from the outside without emotions, that’s why you don’t hesitate with your conclusions. Some of us agree and others don’t and we’re almost back to square one. David Moyes part 2. Six years later.

    You deliver so many quality posts, especially those you explain step by step together with images. I enjoy reading them all as well as this last one. Spot on from top to bottom.

    When I see Ole I see a new younger version of Davis Moyes. A pragmatist but without his own visions. I don’t think that kind of leadership will takes us forward to compete with the best.
  12. May 13, 2019

    Massive Spanner Thinks Geoff Shreeves has one

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    That guy comes across as a right know-it-all prick.
  13. May 13, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    There isn’t a project mate. It’s only changing personnel and people come and go these past 6 years. If there was project and we’ve backed Ole with 200-300m, or he has won bunch of stuff as a manager or even had a recognisable style as Pep or Klopp, proven at other clubs and being successful at the highest level I’d back that.

    I’d love to see and back a project at the moment. But what are we backing right now, someone with good intentions that has played for the club before? Is that enough for a club like United?
  14. May 13, 2019

    Mainoldo Full Member

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    1 great manager who was past it, a dictator who was ready for retirement and David Moyes(check his CV). So I don’t know what your babbling on about.
  15. May 13, 2019

    Bojan11 Full Member

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    Plus I rather take advice from Arthur Morgan.
  16. May 13, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    That’s not fair comparison mate. If you want to compare stints you take the time both are at helm.

    Yes we can argue about semantics and whether the perm job title affected him (to me it clearly did) but to me comparing Ole to the best managers in the world right now is insane, just to prove your point - give him time.
  17. May 13, 2019

    Regulus Arcturus Black Full Member

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    Neither you, nor I know the project but with Ole, Carrick and Phelan involved I'd imagine it's better than you think. The club will be well aware of this and the advisory board that includes a pretty successful manager has obviously backed the project in order for Ole and Phelan to be taken on full time.

    Right now you're moaning for the sake of moaning, Mourinho is one of the best managers ever and he couldn't get a tune out of this side. It needs ripping up.
    The football men at the club have belief that this is the right way to go, and you can be sure there's a much bigger plan behind this than what you are giving everyone credit for.
  18. May 13, 2019

    Di Maria's angel Captain of Moanchester United

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    It's what we've become now. Make decisions based on sentiment and no logic.
  19. May 13, 2019

    Massive Spanner Thinks Geoff Shreeves has one

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    Arthur at Old Trafford booing the team like he does at the theater would be great.

    "Get back in the kitchen!"
  20. May 13, 2019

    Di Maria's angel Captain of Moanchester United

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    Ah yes, the board that hired Moyes instead of Mourinho, hired a manager who peaked 20 years prior to his appointment; then went back and hired the man who we should have hired 3 years prior on the back of his worst ever season as a manager. That board only fills me with confidence.
  21. May 13, 2019

    Regulus Arcturus Black Full Member

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    I get that it fills you with no confidence, but as of now you're simply moaning for the sake of moaning.

    Simple fact is, none of us have any idea right at this moment.

    If you were to see the final month of Mourinho's reign and the final one of this season, it'd be extremely difficult to judge which one was managed by one of the most successful manager's in history. This squad is that shit.

    Judge Ole on what he does in the Summer, not on what a shit squad he has now.
  22. May 13, 2019

    Andycoleno9 Full Member

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    I agree with you. And i don't mind going in that way. Step by step. But this club just can't do that. For doing that you need to buy/extend contracts only quality players. We are still acting like family club. We want English core, we will not buy quality player if we have on that position solid academy player, we will extend contract to player just because he is here 5,6,7 years. We hired manager just because he is our legend, ffs.
    Old days are over. If you want success, you need to be ruthless. We are not that. Simple as that
  23. May 13, 2019

    2 man midfield Incestuous Modern Woman (Dumper!)

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    Where did you read that?
  24. May 13, 2019

    manUfan2005 New Member

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    Ole deserves at least a chance and this summer is going to be big for him. hope he is allowed to clear out the deadwood (including the english deadwood) or at least gets new players who will all be in starting XI. That is critical I think. Get players who will take their place in the starting XI and those players should never let young, jones, smalling, lingard replace them.

    For all the haters, here is something to consider before bashing Ole for this season. When Klopp took over, Liverpool were 10th in the league with 12 points in 8 matches. And guess where they ended. Eighth position with just 60 points. They got 48 points in Klopp’s 30 games in charge. Having said that will Ole be as good as Klopp?? We will soon find out next season. I hope he can turn things around.
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  25. May 13, 2019

    Chesterlestreet Man of the crowd

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    Hope so.

    My take on this is that it will become obvious soon whether Ole actually has a proper project, rather than just winging it, so to speak.

    If there are few apparent changes, I'll be very skeptical, not to say pessimistic. Put it like this: the more radical the ins/outs are, the better I'll feel.
  26. May 13, 2019

    Regulus Arcturus Black Full Member

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    Pah, we had no quarms getting rid of Rooney or letting Valencia go.

    The rest is all in your head as of right now.
  27. May 13, 2019

    romufc New Member

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    The fans getting on the back of Ole. All we know is that he wants fast play with high press - But we have not seen this in the last 2 months? It feels he is just picking the team and saying go play? Surely he is working on tactics and knows how he wants his players to play? There is no style whatsoever to this United team. Keeps picking Jones, Smalling, Young, Lingard.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2019
  28. May 13, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    I thought the same as well, but probably the kneejerk reaction after some decent string of games took over for Woody and that plan went out of the window.

    We'd probably be the first club that appoints manager first DoF second. Makes no sense at all.

    To me we should create a project, but take someone experienced. I'm not buying Phelan, Rio or other old mate for the job.

    We should aim for proven candidates - Monchi, Zorc, Campos, Brands, VdS. Of course some might not be available but those should be the names that we look for.

    Then we need someone like Overmars to oversee day to day activities, the youth set ups etc.

    Both of them can then shortlist manager who will bring his own staff, but not adding Phill Neville to the picture - just because.

    Basically we need to detach ourselves from the old non working structure and move Ed to the financial side(but that's given).

    Cheers mate, I love detailed sources and getting into detail of what are our core problems. Don't have anything personal against Ole, he's a nice bloke and dare to say United legend, but not really the appropriate choice to me to bring the club forward.
  29. May 13, 2019

    westmeath Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    If I was Chris Hughton I’d be looking at Ole thinking “I’ve as good a record as him over the past 10 games or so but he has several times my budget, wtf is going on?” Relative to what ole has done, Hughton is Sir Alex mark 2.
  30. May 13, 2019

    Greck Full Member

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    Fools the lot. How do they know he wasn't right for them? Had he yet been given the chance to both spend 300m and organise specialist preseason fitness drills? You just know they don't understand football
  31. May 13, 2019

    PedroMendez Acolyte

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    Phil Jones got a new contract while he was in charge. That tells you all you need to know.
  32. May 13, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    The club has been hiring old mates since 6 years. Don't see a fresh approach here. It's still Ed calling shots with hiring yes men.

    The club including same advisory board has backed Moyes, and apparently backed Jose to fire him couple of months later standing in the way the whole Summer.

    I'm not moaning for the sake of moaning. I've been backing up Jose since he was appointed (granted 3 years too late). I'd certainly back a viable project, but Phelan, Carrick and Ole.. Allow me to be skeptical ;)
  33. May 13, 2019

    Chesterlestreet Man of the crowd

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    Agreed, 100%. I said back in October, when Mou's meltdown was in full bloom, that what Ed should do is to sack Mou, bring in a caretaker (purely an interim) and focus on bringing in a DoF. Then leave it to the DoF to hire the next manager.

    Agreed again. Use ex-players/coaches as consultants, to formulate a "vision" for the future (style, recruitment) but hire an experienced figure to carry out the actual job.

    Amen to that.
  34. May 13, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    Yeah, given our state and results at the time, sacking Jose was the correct decision for both parties. Especially after the summer.

    The road afterwards was natural - interim, DoF -> new manager in the Summer after research, talks, transfer strategy..

    Can't believe how astute businessman can make such knee jerk decisions giving him 3 years contract on the basis of handful of games. I mean 3 years? It's not like Ole wouldn't accept 1.

    It's not like Ole is the biggest culprit, I get it that he does the best he can and wouldn't hold it against him(staying), but Woodward, we need to get him off football related stuff ASAP.
  35. May 13, 2019

    acnumber9 Full Member

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    Why didn’t you leave it at that when you voted for him to be made permanent manager? Was that nugget of information not available to you three months after he left Molde?
  36. May 13, 2019

    Roboc7 Full Member

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    He was only caretaker then, the club were dishing out the contracts to Jones and others.

    There’s plenty to criticise Ole for but the Jones contract is symbolic of why we are so screwed, Woodward and co making poor decisions and making players unsellable.
  37. May 13, 2019

    VP89 Pogba's biggest fan

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    The club wouldn't be giving him a new contract if they didn't think Ole saw his long term future with the club. Ole has said multiple times even as caretaker that he was included in the process and had given his thoughts.
  38. May 13, 2019

    Roboc7 Full Member

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    What do you expect him to say, I don’t want him but he’s staying anyway. There was no need to give new contract to Jones but the club did because they think it’s protecting their investment and cheaper than replacing him. They used not having a manager as opportunity, a manager who they weren’t intending to employ wouldn’t make decision, not like of Smalling and Jones we’re going anywhere.
  39. May 13, 2019

    Ferginolol New Member

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    Norwegian forums and talking to Molde fans.

    Mistakes can be made. Lets not make another by sticking with it.
  40. May 13, 2019

    VP89 Pogba's biggest fan

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    They can give him a rolling deal or a 2 year deal. A 4 year contract shows he's in the managers thoughts.