Ole Gunnar Solskjær | Permanent manager

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Samid, Mar 28, 2019.

  1. Jul 9, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,184
    Location:
    Cooking MCs like a pound of bacon
    My god, so nobody should be feeling any concern? Or do you just mean that nobody should be admitting to it?

    He was sacked the following season - so there was the relegation, then not performing effectively in the Championship after signing a load of players. Not great is it?
  2. Jul 9, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,184
    Location:
    Cooking MCs like a pound of bacon
    Ah I see, form in CL qualifying doesn't count?
  3. Jul 9, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    17,252
    Yeah, failing to qualify from group stages means they are always sacked. It's not as if coaches like Conte, Klopp, Van Gaal all failed to qualify from group stages before and still continued without getting sacked.

    They were in good position in the league, he got sacked as they are Chelsea. They sacked manager for coming 2nd after winning league in season before.

    Funny how Jose and Van Gaal weren't sacked because of their poor form at ManUtd.
  4. Jul 9, 2019

    KristianMackle New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    383
    The players take no blame for that. You can only do so much for the players and then they have to be men and take over themselves. Pogba and Lukaku have been wanting to leave before the end of the season, before Mourinho left. A lot of players were looking to leave before Ole came in and a case in point is Herrera. Ole did his utmost to pull us out of the gutter and disarray because I believe we were heading towards 10th or 11th in the table.

    Ole now needs all the support he can get. It's now up to the recruitment team and Woodward to deliver.
  5. Jul 9, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,184
    Location:
    Cooking MCs like a pound of bacon
    I hope you don't run a business if this is your attitude to recruitment.
  6. Jul 9, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    21,757
    I said he should be criticized for everything he fails to deliver. Some things obviously hasn't happened yet. ;)

    Woodward is constantly blamed for not being up to par on the transfer market, it's not only this year or last or something else.

    This year is the first time since 6 years we see going for young/hungry Brits or raiding Championship/lower level PL teams. So if you pin it on Woodward solely that means:

    1. He decided the change his strategy from going after superstars to low profile players over the course of a year.
    2. Ole has no part in the transfer business, then what difference would it make being given a transfer window to bring his OWN players?

    You do understand Woodward is working on deals that presumably Ole has identified right? Longstaff, James, AWB, Rice etc aren't exactly his cup of tea considering what we saw in the last 6 years.

    In essence if we fail to recruit the right players Ole has to shoulder the blame for steering the targets into that profile that fits his ideas right?
  7. Jul 9, 2019

    TRUERED89 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2019
    Messages:
    975
    Location:
    England
    I have my doubts about Ole, just being happy to be at Man United, therefore not properly stomping down his authority to the players and voicing concerns to the board when warranted. However, we've tried the experienced approach and it went to shite 3 times in a row, so I don't have an issue giving Ole some breathing room to implement his plan. I hope he proves himself I really do! If results aren't coming he'll be under severe pressure though and maybe axed by December.
  8. Jul 9, 2019

    Gomes New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Messages:
    172
    It's hilarious you do the exact same thing with Mourinho.
  9. Jul 9, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    17,252
    Nothing has happened yet as we haven't even played a game in preseason.

    So did you blame Woodward for failing to sign players last season or did you blame Jose?
  10. Jul 9, 2019

    Brophs The one and only

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Messages:
    42,944
    Location:
    Charlie Adam: A Pivot
    We can all do the blind support thing and we all hope he’ll do well, but in my opinion we have, on paper at least, the fifth best manager at a top 6 club. Without him being really well backed, or proving himself to be a far better manager than he’s looked for all but a few months of his career, there are fairly obvious reasons to be concerned.
  11. Jul 9, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,184
    Location:
    Cooking MCs like a pound of bacon
    What are you on about? I said he was sacked because of poor form - poor form includes league, cup and European games. I think you're tying yourself in knots here.

    What has the sacking of a clearly out of his depth rookie manager who should never have been appointed in the first place got to do with Jose and LVG?!
  12. Jul 9, 2019

    KristianMackle New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    383
    Again, managing Cardiff is nothing like managing United. Moyes, was great at Everton but relegated Sunderland and failed everywhere else. Managing a club is not always black and white. You have to analyze with some nuance.
  13. Jul 9, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    17,252
    It would have been hilarious if it was correct or if Jose didn't sign every player he wanted except Perisic in first 2 seasons.
  14. Jul 9, 2019

    matt10000 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2018
    Messages:
    153
    Location:
    Salford UK
    Who knows what happened after the great initial run.

    I have no idea but my theory is that perhaps when Ole came in as an interim he knew he had to work with what he had and so he very successfully built up the confidence and belief of every player (just as SAF used to). When he got the permanent appointment it probably changed the dynamic some what with Ole now coming across as I am the boss man, you need to convince me or your days are numbered etc. (just as SAF used to look for hunger after every season)..... and the bubble was burst!

    Ole will have learnt a lot more about the players during the bad run and so although not ideal, Champions League aside, it may have been better for that bad run to happen last season than this coming season in order for the board to get serious about signings
  15. Jul 9, 2019

    RedSky likes to kick 10-year-olds Scout

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    61,180
    Location:
    Hereford FC (Soccermanager)
    What I will agree on is the whole "sign British players" is a load of nonsense. If that is Oles idea then it's pretty fecking dumb. So much young foreign talent out there who would jump at the chance of playing for us, but you just got to find them a season earlier is all. I mean just look at the immense French talent being produced right now, are we seriously suggesting we should pass that up because they arent British!? Madness.

    If however it's because we've realised that Brexit is going to cause chaos for future signings and we've decided to go British NOW and snap up some of the best talent before all the PL clubs go chasing then it's a good strategy. I don't know enough about the ramifications Brexit will have on Premier League football.
  16. Jul 9, 2019

    ForestRGoinUp Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    1,157
    Big managers come with demands that money be spent. Managers who wake up everyday feeling like they’re in a dream don’t make those demands.
  17. Jul 9, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    21,757
    That's why I said for some of those things he will he accounted for at a later stage :)

    I blame Woodward for not backing up Jose when he delivered a 2nd place finish. Blame Jose for bringing up some of the signings he made obviously.

    I don't see Ole complaining he isn't backed and Woodward came out and said he will back him up.

    If Ole is behind the Brexit thing would you blame him for the lost window if the players we bring up don't work?

    Do you agree with the strategy we have employed so far?
  18. Jul 9, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,184
    Location:
    Cooking MCs like a pound of bacon
    Ha, it's too easy to give Ole the credit when the team are winning and none of the blame when it all goes to shit. The truth is somewhere in between.
  19. Jul 9, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    17,252
    :lol:

    But when Jose and Van Gaal weren't sacked when they had poor form (without having any great form prior) it shouldn't matter.

    He was 3rd with 4 points behind 1st, how is that poor form? Losing in CL group stages has happened to many better coaches and none of them were sacked.

    This is just random and all over the place. Meh done with this shit, wasted enough time already.
  20. Jul 9, 2019

    ForestRGoinUp Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likewise they will have learnt a lot about him. If any part of that end of season form was a loss of respect, he’ll struggle to get that back.
  21. Jul 9, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    21,757
    I doubt it's Woodward's idea tbh. He'd never look for underwhelming signings and is about the glamour from what I've seen.
  22. Jul 9, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    17,252
    Of course he should be accounted for everything on the pitch, there will be no excuse.

    Why should Ole complain publicly? That's what Jose did last season and how did that help the club? I would prefer the manager who thinks it's his club and keeps everything internally like SAF used to do.

    No, I don't agree with strategy but then we are linked with so many foreign players too, not sure how they fit with brexit. But any day I would prefer this to signing 29-30 year old past it shit players, who signs only for one big last contract.
  23. Jul 9, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,184
    Location:
    Cooking MCs like a pound of bacon
    Well of course that's one way to look at it. I would say it's far more likely that initial 'feelgood factor' that comes from a new manager building up confidence and belief will only get you so far. I'm gobsmacked about that bit in bold - are you saying that the board have 'got serious about signings' this summer so far?
  24. Jul 9, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    17,252
    Yeah because you were present in the discussion between Woodward and Ole?

    How come we paid shit loads of money for signing AWB then? How come we made 70 million bid for Maguire?
  25. Jul 9, 2019

    RedSky likes to kick 10-year-olds Scout

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    61,180
    Location:
    Hereford FC (Soccermanager)
    There have been talks about the limit of overseas players being reduced in the Premier League. So it could be a club think tank idea to strike British talent now rather than a season or two (if the ruling happens) as the value of those players will increase significantly, supply/demand etc.
  26. Jul 9, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,184
    Location:
    Cooking MCs like a pound of bacon
    Love your green smilies don't you?!

    We are talking about the form of caretaker managers and it going to shit after an initial purple patch - as happened with both Di Matteo and Solskjaer. Attempting to compare that to hugely successful multi league winning managers like LVG and Jose going through a bad patch is completely disingenuous and kinda pointless.
  27. Jul 9, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    21,757
    Well SAF practically ran our transfer business so isn't the best example. If Ole is behind this transfer strategy though he certainly should receive the blame afterwards if it doesn't work out.

    TBH I'd also prefer young players but not from the island because they are significantly overvalued.
  28. Jul 9, 2019

    KristianMackle New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    383
    Conversely, it is also too easy to blame Ole for all that went wrong.

    But I did not give Ole all the credit neither did I blame him for all that went wrong. Players need to also take a look at themselves as well. The manager cannot physically and literally rewire the players' minds on the pitch.
  29. Jul 9, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    21,757
    That won't happen overnight though, as you mentioned.

    Also the value of those players currently is through the roof. If we sign top players from abroad during those 2-3 years they most likely will qualify for work visa and also there will no doubt be exceptions allowing them to continue playing.
  30. Jul 9, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    17,252
    Past it toxic manager having bad patch is ok, but manager who broke record for away wins, having bad patch when team lacked in so many departments means he should be sacked. I dont like green smilies but sometimes I have to :lol:
  31. Jul 9, 2019

    RedSky likes to kick 10-year-olds Scout

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    61,180
    Location:
    Hereford FC (Soccermanager)
    They are super expensive, but there's nothing to suggest that the valuation of these players wont keep increasing. The market is absurd right now, every Summer the valuation seems to increase by 10-15m.
  32. Jul 9, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,184
    Location:
    Cooking MCs like a pound of bacon
    No, but it is the manager's responsibility - if the players minds are falling apart on the pitch why the feck is that happening?!
  33. Jul 9, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    17,252
    If Ole gets the players and fails to produce, he should be responsible for that. I prefer manager to keep the atmosphere good when they don't get what they wanted (like Poch did) rather than manager creating toxic atmosphere like Jose did.

    I'm sure Ole will keep everything in the dressing room like SAF used to.
  34. Jul 9, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    21,757
    PL is still a mega billion business. The interests simply won't allow having a serious restriction on foreign players IMO. There might be some restrictions but they would most likely be home grown players that will receive visa after 2-3 years either way.

    The value of these players will either way keep increasing as the bottom clubs become richer. It's a stupid strategy if you ask me. Better invest in youth(academy) rather than this shite in order to get 'ahead' of the competition.
  35. Jul 9, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,184
    Location:
    Cooking MCs like a pound of bacon
    I think it tends to be what people do when they don't have an intelligent answer.
  36. Jul 9, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    17,252
    Says more about you when you see green smiley rather than the post content.
  37. Jul 9, 2019

    matt10000 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2018
    Messages:
    153
    Location:
    Salford UK
    Yes I run a business and business is all about resolving issues taking calculated risks, applying contingency etc...

    Issue - repeated recruitment of proven experts in business sector to managerial position failed - need a fresh approach
    Issue - workers in team not working very well as a cohesive unit, some not pulling weight, some not living up to expectation, some always looking at jumping ship to competitors - need holistic recruitment policy

    Calculated risk - recruit/promote someone to management who knows the business inside out versus recruit a proven manager in same business sector. Facts - already tried proven manager in same business sector and failed multiple times. Analysis our business is unique within the business sector due to size, prestige and history. Need to try something new. Decision recruit someone who has worked for business during most successful period and apply contingency plans

    Calculated Risk - recruit young hungry players over experienced mercenaries. Fact experienced mercenaries costing business fortune in wages and not proving value for money. Analysis - seem to be here for the salary but not fitting into the team.

    Contingency Plan - given there is a risk that new management appointment may fail as previous one did apply a recruitment policy of hungry young workers, local where possible, with potential so that any future manager has the foundations of a team who know the business and are keen to prove themselves to take forward
  38. Jul 9, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,184
    Location:
    Cooking MCs like a pound of bacon
    The post content was cack quite frankly.

    You polluted a discussion comparing Solskjaer and Di Matteo - guys who both were appointed when their performance as caretaker managers unexpectedly made them candidates for the job permanently. They then, after initial success, ran into spells of poor form - leading to Di Matteo being sacked.

    What relevance does long-term permanent managers running into a spell of bad form have to do with anything? Apart from anything else I pretty much guarantee that had Jose or LVG taken the club through a spell as bad as United's form at the end of last season they would have been sacked anyway. In that sense Ole was hugely lucky that it came literally just as he was appointed permanently - if it had started 5 games earlier he would never have been given the job. the end of the season came at a very opportune time for him. I suspect your attempt to muddy the waters is because you knew what a mess you'd gotten yourself into.
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  39. Jul 9, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,184
    Location:
    Cooking MCs like a pound of bacon
    OK, another way of looking at it is that it is frankly mental to think that just cos the last 2 well qualified candidates you appointed didn't make the grade that you'll give the job to a guy whose CV doesn't measure up and who got sacked last time he worked at anything approaching the level of your business.
  40. Jul 9, 2019

    Tom Cato Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2019
    Messages:
    307
    We've been through 3 managers now: Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho. All had credentials, none of them worked out.

    So we are trying something new, that frankly other clubs have done with massive success. Can't have success if you're not allowed to try.

    Sir Alex Ferguson was nearly sacked early on in his Man United career.

    Pep Guardiola and Zidane only had reserve team coaching experience when they were given the reins of two of the biggest clubs in the world.

    Why not just give the man a chance and be supportive? All this rampant criticism everywhere.

    As a last note: Ole wasn't appointed because he had 0 pedigree or knowledge about football. He was appointed because the results he brough to the club at the point of being hired were the best in Premier League history with a new manager.

    You can hindsight all you want until you cream your pants, but it is what it is and we might as well embrace it.