Ole v Spurs

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by SAred, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. Jan 9, 2019

    LoveFootball Banned

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    Even a 34 y/o CR7 is still a better player than Kane but you'd pick the latter over him? Ok, no need to debate anymore, can is the best striker in the world.
  2. Jan 9, 2019

    LoveFootball Banned

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    The same can be said about many players who aren't world class.
  3. Jan 9, 2019

    LoveFootball Banned

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    You lot are downplaying Aubamyang qualities. Watch his stats and all round game and you'll wake up from that Kaneland you living in.
  4. Jan 9, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    ok
  5. Jan 9, 2019

    ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg Full Member

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    You asked who I would take at Utd from all the players you listed. Ronaldo wouldn’t be able to do it in the PL at his age.

    In a one off game, I’d take Ronaldo, if we are talking about for this season, or as a transfer, then it clearly would be Kane. You do seem to get confused about the current day, and past endeavours.
  6. Jan 9, 2019

    Random Task Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    Come now mate, it's not even open for discussion. Not only is Kane world class, but he is also arguably the best striker on the planet.

    There isn't a single team he would not walk directly into.
  7. Jan 9, 2019

    LoveFootball Banned

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    So, Ibra who was 35 y/o came here and blew the league apart but Ronaldo, who is twice the player and athlete and one of the greatest players of all time who recently was a key player in a team that have just won the last 3 CL finals and who's currently scoring for fun at Juve in a different league, wouldn't be able to do it in the PL at 34?
  8. Jan 9, 2019

    ArjenIsM3 Full Member

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    Ibra blew the league apart? Nah mate. That simply didn't happen. He did alright, nothing more.
  9. Jan 9, 2019

    Turnip Full Member

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    Ole won't play, he'll be on the bench.
  10. Jan 9, 2019

    ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg Full Member

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    How do you put people on your ignore list? Serious question, I haven’t had to do it before.
  11. Jan 9, 2019

    minoo-utd Full Member

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    Ole has to concentrate on defense, we can't play such open game vs Spurs.
  12. Jan 9, 2019

    balaks Full Member

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    :lol:
  13. Jan 9, 2019

    dave1956 Full Member

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    I believe that with our defence at the moment the only way to play is attack and try to stop Spurs pushing forward
  14. Jan 9, 2019

    chromepaxos Full Member

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    You keep using these words. Can you please tell me what you think they mean?

    Is it a player who would be in a World 11? Or the top 3 in his position in the world? Or who has played at the World Cup?

    Please can you define what you actually mean? Do you even know?
  15. Jan 9, 2019

    ayushreddevil9 Full Member

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    Why would you wanna have that?
  16. Jan 9, 2019

    ayushreddevil9 Full Member

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    Why do you want to impose your opinion (which I believe is very harsh on Harry Kane) on everyone who doesn't share the same?
  17. Jan 9, 2019

    Eckers99 Michael Corleone says hello

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    You're turning your back on such opinions as 'Kane is about the same level as Danny Ings' and 'the 08 United team would beat the 99 United team 4-0, with Carrick bossing Roy Keane' (true story).

    Are you sure you want to leave all this mirth behind?
  18. Jan 9, 2019

    Gasolin Full Member

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    Agreed, if Lingard movement and touch is top notch in this game, he will provide the positioning help the other 3 needs to perform and cause problems to Spurs 100%. We will worry about our defense later.
    I am a bit worried about Kane, and somehow about Son and Eriksen but less about Alli recently, I think his form is somewhat down.
  19. Jan 9, 2019

    Gasolin Full Member

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    Only you would choose Eriksen! But hey, let's see how this game goes. A motivated Pogba is just miles ahead of Eriksen in almost every aspect of the game, including the tactical one because he was educated by Manchester United and Juventus.
  20. Jan 9, 2019

    SuperiorXI Full Member

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    This.

    I have a horrible feeling we will lose... quite convincingly. We should not forget the amount of work left to be done and the distance between where we are and where we should be.

    Please be wrong.
  21. Jan 9, 2019

    Gasolin Full Member

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    Somehow I see Kane like a finisher, a bit like an Inzaghi. I see Martial being able to do a bit more technically with and without the ball, and if his confidence is kept high, which Ole seems to be able to do now, Martial will go ahead of Kane in no time. You're a Spurs fan so if you want to disagree with that, no problem.

    But we are not going for Kane when we have Martial and Rashford. We may go for someone on the right if we can find better than Lingard.
    The same for Pogba, we're not going for anyone else. It's 23, 21 and 25 of age for those 3.
  22. Jan 9, 2019

    Gasolin Full Member

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    We will be fine, confidence plays a big role in that level and right now, we have built one. I don't see the players going down just like that. And that front 4 we have is going to make Spurs sweat too. If they don't respect us, they will pay. If they respect us, we will have space. No matter what happens, we will have the opportunity to score with our players.
  23. Jan 9, 2019

    SuperiorXI Full Member

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    It's not our front 4 I'm concerned about.

    We'll start the match with Phil Jones. Basically already 1-0 down.
  24. Jan 9, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    Kane being just a finisher is straight up wrong though. I don't mean to be offensive when I say this, but genuinely have you watched him this season? I feel like nobody who watches Kane consistently could possibly see him as an Inzaghi type player. If anything, he often drops too deep these days in an effort to see more of the ball. His ability to hold up the ball and bring our wide players in to the game are some of his strongest assets, some of his passing this season and last has been absolutely glorious. He is absolutely the complete striker, and this isn't just Spurs fans who are saying this, it's mostly everyone (In particular ex-strikers) who basically regard him as easily one of the best in the world, and far from a limited poacher. He's turned in to an incredibly well rounded player under Pochettino, and a lot of that is owed to his fantastic attitude and work rate.

    Martial has a long, long way to go before he should be even mentioned in the same sentence as Kane. You're talking about a guy who has been crowned top scorer twice in the league, scored 41 goals in all competitions last season, has banged in 16 goals in the champions league, won the world cup golden boot and is currently the top scorer in the league with 14 goals and 4 assists, well on course to hit 40+ in all comps once again. Martial didn't even make the French squad and has spent the last couple of seasons drifting in and out of the United team, now you can blame Jose for this but that's the reality of his situation. There's simply no logical comparison between the two players, Kane is miles ahead unless you're going by some vague, subjective notion of who has more 'talent'. A few good games against relegation fodder and Martial could be ahead of arguably the best striker in the world in 'no time' ? Honestly.

    You're obviously entitled to view Martial as having fantastic potential, but outside Manchester United are there any fans who think Martial could easily overtake him? It's not just fans from Spurs who would find that pretty dismissive of what Kane has achieved and the level he's playing at. There's only a select few in the world right now who are ahead of him at all, let alone easily. I think it's a classic case of Kane being underrated because he's not a particularly flashy or showy player, so therefore he's not perceived as all that talented. The fact is he's one of the most natural finishers in the world with movement off the ball Martial could only dream about, among other assets. Like you say Martial can do more 'with and without the ball' and what do you mean by this exactly? Without the ball Kane is miles ahead of Martial, his movement in the box is some of the best in the world, it's part of how he's so ludicrously consistent at scoring goals.

    Sorry, this turned in to a bit of a rant. I just find it weird that Kane still gets underappreciated by some. I mean, what more does a player have to do as an individual? I suppose some will say win trophies, but I don't think it would be remotely fair to say any of our failings are down to him. The rest of your post is totally fair and I agree with, there's no way you need to bring in somebody like Eriksen when you have a talent like Pogba in midfield, and it's good to see Rashford doing well as an England supporter. I agree that going forward Lingard is probably a weaker link, but even then his movement off the ball is fantastic and he has a great attitude, so it's hardly a huge weakness.
  25. Jan 9, 2019

    abdo99 Full Member

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    Martial is much more naturally gifted than Kane @SquishyMcSquish. He's been stifled by defensive tactics for the past two and half years but he was still up there with the top strikers in the PL in productivity. The only thing Kane has over him is shooting. Martial doesn't shoot much and his shots lack power but technically he's better. He's just more team orientated and isn't selfish enough (which all strikers must be) always preferred to set others up but playing from the left you have to sacrifice a bit more. Kane is not miles ahead . He's benefited from team that knows his style and manager that got the best out of him. Martial and Rashford both never had that and lost vital time in their development.
  26. Jan 9, 2019

    Gasolin Full Member

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    Thanks for the detailed post, it makes sense based on how you see things, especially regarding Kane, clearly you rate him.
    Maybe I am underestimating the player but the only thing I can think of the part in bold is this: he just needs to go to a "bigger" team in term of aura and perception. Maybe there, if he performs, he will shut everybody up.
    Right now, it feels like a great Lukaku at a club performing slightly better than Everton.
    But I don't mean to disrespect Spurs and maybe that is plain wrong as a perception, but in this world, perception also plays a role.
  27. Jan 10, 2019

    TheRedHearted New Member

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    Love the words man. It's the right idea for sure-he's optimistic, he's a winner and he knows the game. The fact he's worked with the youth teams is also beneficial I'd say- working with younger players, making the academy better long term is what we need. Buying players after they've found themselves comfortable at a club and after they've grown for large sums works for one or two positions but otherwise it's about finding young talent and making them the best, or working with our own.

    About the conter- few better on the counter than Jesse I'd say. Would be interesting if we could have a front 3 of Martial, Rashford, and Lukaku and have a midfield of Pogba Herrera and Lingard. Lingard and Pogba doing what Silva and De Bruyne do for City- or Lingard being that pressure and box to box man.

    Hope smalling is back for sure.

    would love to see the back 4 of Shaw, Jones, Smalling, and Lindelof to be honest. I think with their speed the most our right backs should do is push as Lindelof can but relay it off to the speedster that is Jesse. May not be the right team to try it out but to be honest Lindelof there is interesting against teams with a lot of punch on the counter attack.
  28. Jan 10, 2019

    The Mitcher connoisseur of pot noodles and sandwiches

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    Why put a centreback out of position? At least on form, Young deserves to keep his spot and will do more than just push up, he will at least get involved with the attacking play. We can't have a right wing that is deas because the full back is not doing their attacking duty as well as they could do. It would be like having Valencia there.
  29. Jan 10, 2019

    rpg Full Member

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    If the team runs more, and hardworking than Spurs, i believe we can beat them. Not counting on flair, but we got players with better flair than them.
  30. Jan 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    Yeah, shooting and off the ball movement, aerial ability, holding up the ball, passing ... Kane is far better than Martial at loads of things. He's just a better all round striker and there isn't a side in world football who would choose Martial over him. This whole 'much more naturally gifted' lark is meaningless, it just means that Martial is a more exciting player on the ball. Kane has bags of talent and has worked at it relentlessly and right now has made himself almost a perfect striker, which Martial (despite possessing obvious ability) has a long way to go in order to catch up on.

    Martial scored 9 goals last season in the league, how has he been up there with the top strikers in the PL in terms of productivity? This is simply a fiction based on him having a good goal to minute ratio this season, which is heavily influenced by the fact he's often played the role as a sub and has far less minutes than the top players. The more he plays the worse his goal to games will start to look, it's already pretty much the same as Kane's despite playing a fraction of the time.

    More team orientated? What? Kane's hold up and ability to bring his teammates in to play is one of his biggest strengths. He has 4 league assists already this season. Kane is miles ahead by any rational bar, he's achieved far more as an individual than Martial (who has had 1 top level season, his first in the league) and whilst it's easy to blame Mourinho for absolutely everything, you had a squad that finished second last season and scored not that many goals less than we did. We'll see if Martial turns in to this world class, top level forward comparable in consistency to Kane this season, but until then let's quieten down shall we? He's done nothing to deserve the comparison.

    Kane is considered by many (fans, experts, ex-players .. whoever) to be the best out and out striker in the world, Martial can barely get a call up to his national side. That's the difference in levels we are talking about here. Martial has barely managed to make double figures in the premier league ever, Kane banged in 30 last season. It's embarrassing to say that he can be 'easily surpassed' or whatever, he's currently one of the most consistent and effective forwards in the world. This whole 'raw talent' stuff is totally subjective unless he actually starts delivering consistently on the pitch across entire seasons.

    Martial should be focusing on someone like Son, and achieving his level of consistency in the league, forget Kane.
  31. Jan 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    I think you're possibly right that he would have to go to an elite club in order to get everybody's respect, which is sad. People need to realise that the top players don't only play for the biggest clubs.

    Sorry but the bolded ... we're miles ahead of Everton, when he left them they were 7th and we were second, 24 points ahead of them. Totally different level exists right now between the two clubs and Lukaku (whilst a player I actually rate) is totally different to Kane, who is not limited technically at all.
  32. Jan 10, 2019

    Scroto Baggins Full Member

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    If anyone thinks Martial is anywhere near Kane's level atm they deserve the title Redcafe Tye.

    Martial has great potential and is a good player, but simply not on Kane's level yet. A better comparison for Martial from Spurs is Son.

    Now Aubemayang is a much better discussion alongside Kane. But this is an Ole vs Spurs thread so not really the place for said discussion.
  33. Jan 10, 2019

    mariachi-19 Full Member

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    Aye Harry Kane has been making a living out of it for the past 5 years.
  34. Jan 10, 2019

    abdo99 Full Member

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    Disagree. Martial first season was already top class and he was carrying the team in attack at age 19/20. Where was Kane at the same age? On loan at Leicester ? I don't know but the difference is one player got trusted by his manager and progressed , the other stagnated for two years . I'm talking on pure ability. The reason people are saying Kane could be surpassed is because Martial has opportunity to pick up from where he was in 2016 when the difference between them was nothing. United fans wouldn't have swapped him for anyone at that stage and was already getting touted as future ballon dor winner. Kane had since passed him in stats/personal accolades but mainly due to trust from manager/game time/ settled and team playing much better style of football. If Martial got the same things period of course he will surpass because his ceiling is much higher. On pure talent he's better than all your strikers. I said more team orientated because he plays in position where you have to dribble and set up others whereas Kane likes to go for glory mostly. When does he ever pass? :lol: no-one shoots more than him in the PL but you can do that when your the focal point and the team plays off you.

    And not getting picked for national has nothing to do with it. The team has an array of talent sitting on their benches and players left completely out. The standby players in the French team would walk into England's team, martial problem was not playing. His case was weak against his competitors due to lack of game time which in the end made the coach's mind up. everytime he was given games he quickly got back into the squad and the latest squad he made it only missing out through injury. the goal to minute ratio is valid aside from 2/3 games he's locked down his position in the team so I don't know where you got the sub thing from. That ratio is very good again this season but I already said he doesn't shoot enough for the ability he has. His shots to goal accuracy is the best in the league so that alone makes Comparisons valid.

    I'm personally very excited for what will happen now the attack has been set free and with similar conditions I think players like Martial who've yet to hit the ceilings yet will come into their own. his numbers stastically so far are perfectly in line with the game time and style of football his team played. I wouldn't expect most strikers to have done much better. He didn't play at all second half of last season despite being oncourse for his best goal tally since arriving but we know what happened and the unfortunate events that led to rumours of his departure . Other strikers scoring more had little to do with ability but the circumstances that were faced. and despite those circumstances and the tough situation he still showed enough to be compared with the best players in the league.
  35. Jan 10, 2019

    Roy Cropper New Member

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    Martial is and never will be better than Kane. Martial is predictable and his movement is not great although Mourinho’s system didn’t help. Martial I’ve noticed always seems to curl or pass the ball into the net, Kane can finish in any way he likes. He is the complete striker. I often see him drop deep and play other Spurs players in. If Harry Kane was quicker and more agile it wouldn’t be pretty for opposition fans.
  36. Jan 10, 2019

    RickG19 New Member

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    Stop putting Pogba in the no 10 position on these team sheets. Just because he gets forward, doesn't mean he plays there. He plays as the left sided 8 in a midfield 3.
  37. Jan 10, 2019

    reelworld Full Member

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    :lol: what the feck is wrong with United fans need to undermine Harry Kane? Does it make you all sleep better?
    Kane is a world class striker with the scoring record to back it up. I mostly watched Kane in the World Cup, but it's clear from there that he's more than a poacher, he got an all around game Inzaghi could only dream of.
  38. Jan 10, 2019

    LoveFootball Banned

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    For me a world class player is someone who's undisputed top 3 in his position and have already do it and was key player at a later stage of a big competition, either won it or came close.

    I understand people who only watch the PL and not more other league can think that Kane or Alli are world class because they are some special players here, But not every good player is at that level, even SAF who coached an extraordinary number of great players is aware that many of them wasn't at that level and could name only 4 players he considers world class. If the like of Rooney and RVN are not in SAF's list of world class players, why do you people claim with so much confidence that Kane is? Is Kane better than Rooney or RVN? What have Kane achieved in his fantastic trip of 6 years at high level? At Kane's age, many great players have already done something special in their career, like Suarez inspiring Liverpool to the league and been rewarded with a move to a club where he confirmed his level and won multiple trophies. Kane couldn't inspire his team to challenge for the title the year Leicester City won the PL. At this rate people will tell me the like of Shearer were world class. I saw in another thread people saying Gerrard is the most overrated player in the PL, so if Gerrard who inspired his team to great things, isn't world class why do people put Kane at that level? Many players are having similar stats to Kane at their respective league, are they too world class? Is Cavani or Thauvin world class?

    Why bother quote me with this kind of behavior?

    By the way, I'm sorry for derailing this thread which was about Ole and the Spurs game.
  39. Jan 10, 2019

    balaks Full Member

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    Serious question, do you think Martial will be seen as one of the top 2 or 3 or the best striker/attackers in world football within the next 2 years? That's where Kane is. I'd suggest Martial has a hell of a lot to prove before he can be compared with Kane.
  40. Jan 10, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    Exactly. Even for this Spurs team, he is more than just striker. He drops deep and plays some superb passes to the runners. He is a player who is good at everything.