1. We are delighted to have been nominated for Best Forum in The Football Blogging Awards. You can vote for us on their website here and via twitter here. You can read the caf thread here. Thanks to anyone who votes for us.
    Dismiss Notice

Oppo fans — where do you rank Man United?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by MaxiPaxi, Sep 22, 2018.

  1. Sep 22, 2018
    #1

    MaxiPaxi likes to shove his mum's boiled eggs up his rectum

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    12,607
    We constantly hear that United are one of the biggest clubs in the world — which there is little doubting of, but there are many clubs that are huge right now. There are a lot of hipster clubs that arguably have better squads and play better football and in general it seems fashionable to slate United.

    Are we still in the Real, Barca, Bayern echelon?

    Is 5 years of relative mediocrity, and 10 years since having the best team in the world enough for us to slip down a few levels?

    I always wondered what the true thoughts of our opponents are? After the banter stops, objectively speaking?

    Also, input from United fans is appreciated; - where do you think we currently stand in the game?
  2. Sep 22, 2018
    #2

    J_XO New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2017
    Messages:
    716
    Location:
    Sheffield
    On the pitch we are far from the level of those mentioned however we’re still up there with the best when it comes to the ‘brand’ of Man Utd
  3. Sep 22, 2018
    #3

    Fridge chutney Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,736
    We're the best club in the world and there's just no 2 ways about it.
  4. Sep 22, 2018
    #4

    deafepl Full Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    2,645
    United is by the far biggest club in the world and averaging more viewer than Real Madrid, Bayern, Barca, etc and very rich despite pounds getting weak but still 1st in revenue, if it wasn't for pounds devaluing by 20%, they would be far ahead of Real and Barca by 100m+.

    On economics, majority English speaking countries the likes of India, Africa, Asian countries enjoy booming economy, that would mean more money for United in international TV money, there'll be increasing 30-50% in international rights deal next term starting 2019-20. We have a lot of deal that will expire in a few years like Aon with $250m for 8 years, Chevrolet with almost $600m for 7 years, we may expect a mega sponsorship deal next few years.

    On pitch success last decade, United is up with Bayern for 3rd spots behind Barca and Real Madrid. Real Madrid hasn't had much success in 2003 or so until 2011 but still remain one of the biggest clubs in the world, I expect the same thing from us.
  5. Sep 22, 2018
    #5

    NikkiCFC Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Messages:
    105
    Location:
    Serbia
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    Speaking about marketing, yes Utd is top2 club in the world probably after Real. But if we speak about results not in top5. Real, Barca, Bayern, Milan, Juve, Liverpool all have more historically speaking . Even we would have more CL trophies if Terry didn't slip in Moscow .
  6. Sep 22, 2018
    #6

    Fridge chutney Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,736
    Such a bitter post.
  7. Sep 22, 2018
    #7

    njred HALA MADRID!

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    4,827
    Big club. Good team.Used to be a great team. With money and a different Mgr can be a very good team in a hurry.
  8. Sep 22, 2018
    #8

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    21,065
    Location:
    Under the bright neon lights of sincity
    Liverpool ? Lol

    What have they won lately?

    1 league cup in 10 years
  9. Sep 22, 2018
    #9

    Klopper76 "Did you see Fabinho against Red Star & Cardiff?"

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    Messages:
    10,595
    Supports:
    Liverpool
    From a footballing point of view I think you’re falling behind a bit post Ferguson. You haven’t put in a title challenge or reached the latter stages of the CL since his retirement. That’s caused you to fall behind the likes of Madrid and Barcelona compared to where you were. I don’t know if Mourinho will get you back to that level or not, we’ll see what happens.

    Commercially and financially United continue to be the biggest in the world (shout-out to Ed and his noodle deals). Your fan base is still huge everywhere as well.

    You’re still the biggest club in England and I don’t see that changing any time soon.
  10. Sep 22, 2018
    #10

    carvajal Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2015
    Messages:
    7,749
    Location:
    Spain
    Supports:
    Real Madrid
    You are worse than the Roman Empire in the third century, you are the new Milan. In fifteen years you will star a thread called "clubs with steepest declines". You need binoculars to glimpse the pot 1 of the champions league. You're so screwed up that now you fight with Tottenham for a CL spot. Your games work wonders for the nap of the children, it works better than the Tour de France.
    You are so desperate that you die of envy for the rival coaches and the players take an eternity to renew because they see that the ship is full of leaks.
    Besides Champions League teams make calculations to match you in the knock outs because they know that even Celta makes you sweat.
    In European football there are a few teams eating at the table (needless to say who preside over the table) and you are in the kitchen preparing the coffee.

    I was joking guys ! :p. Personally there is a group of teams on which my consideration has not changed much despite their comings and goings. Barça, Bayern, Manchester, Liverpool, Ajax, the three Italians, etc.
    The fact that you are able to bill so much money in a not so good time makes clear your position of strength, especially in this football so based on money and wages.
    In addition, as Liverpool have shown, everything can change in a short space of time.
    On the question, I think that right now United would be 6th, 7th,8th..., among the most powerful teams in Europe, but everything can change. The Madrid of Lopetegui can sink, PSG fail again ... and with a bit of luck United should improve and get closer to the group above.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
  11. Sep 22, 2018
    #11

    Theafonis In love with @Eboue

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2013
    Messages:
    6,948
    Location:
    British Columbia
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    A team that dominated the 90's and 2000's, started to decline in the early 2010's with Ferguson's retirement and English clubs losing their grip on Europe. They seem to lack direction compared to their rivals Man City who have a football committee along with a director of football, and have a play style in place that is attacking and possession-based from grassroots to their 1st team.

    United lack direction I feel like despite finishing 2nd last season. I don't think they should have hired Mourinho, while he may bring stability with regular top 4 finishes and maybe a trophy, they should have risked it by going for someone who would have brought an attacking brand of football that United regularly played in the last 20 years. They should be building the team around Pogba, DDG, and Lukaku; Sanchez was an unneeded signing in hindsight; Martial needs to play more but he'll probably be sold; unsure about how Fred has been.

    I would rank them atleast top 10 in Europe right now but that loss to Sevilla last season was a disaster, and was a regular case of Mourinho's pragmatism biting him in the butt.

    If they want to become a top team in Europe again, they need to let Mourinho go. They already have a pretty solid core, they just need to add some quality around this core.

    De Gea
    New-RB Smalling New-CB Shaw
    Pogba Matic Perreira/Fred
    New-Winger Rashford/Lingard
    Lukaku ​

    Sell: Martial, Sanchez, Lindelof, Mata, Rojo
  12. Sep 22, 2018
    #12

    Theafonis In love with @Eboue

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2013
    Messages:
    6,948
    Location:
    British Columbia
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    I don't think so. Your last league win was 2013, over 5 years ago now. United haven't had much of an impact in the CL, and have been regularly getting outclassed by Europe's elites. If you base it on trophies and results, United haven't delivered.

    Lost to Bayern in 2010 (Quarter finals) , outclassed by Barca in 2011 (Final) , out in the group stages in 2012, taken out by Madrid in 2013 (last 16), lost to Bayern (quarter finals), not in CL (2015), out in the group stages (2016), not in CL (2017), lost to Sevilla in 2018 (last 16).

    That's very poor for a supposed "top team". One final where they had a relatively easy route facing Marseilla, out of form Chelsea, and Schalke who had a 34-year old Raul up front.
  13. Sep 22, 2018
    #13

    dpansheth New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    241

    Thank you for your post. I am interested to know what’s your thoughts on Rashford being on the first team.
  14. Sep 22, 2018
    #14

    Wooly Red Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    928
    Supports:
    Liverpool
    I had a good laugh. :lol:

    To answer the question: Off the pitch, easily top 3. On the pitch, as it is, probably among the second tier. Domestic and Europe results reflect that.
  15. Sep 22, 2018
    #15

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scout

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2004
    Messages:
    32,096
    Location:
    Chelsea fan.
    In terms of "bigness", you're still clinging on at the top table in my opinion.

    Size isn't everything though, as your mum assures me, it's how you perform that is important. Whose mum? All of your mums.
  16. Sep 22, 2018
    #16

    Invictus Poster of the Year 2015 & 2018 Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Messages:
    12,224
    Supports:
    Piracy on the High Seas
    Obligatory not an oppo fan caveat, and I'd definitely rank United in the Top 3 overall!

    1. Real Madrid: Always have been the #1, despite what other clubs claim, and will likely retain that spot for the foreseeable future — that's what I truly believe, even as a United supporter. While they don't always top the money league they're consistently there or thereabouts, they have a massive fanbase across the world — particularly in Spanish speaking countries or rather South America in general (which is the spiritual home of football with Europe), and their history puts them in another dimension: 13 European Cups and they've always been miles ahead of the chasing pack aside from the mid 2000s where it looked like Milan might catch up with them, 33 domestic league titles, 19 Copa del Rey — with 4 Top 10 players of all time playing for them at one point or the other — Puskás and Di Stéfano back in the day, Ronaldo for the Galácticos, and recently Cristiano — and that's aside from Figo and Zidane and Gento and Carlos and Laudrup and so forth.

    2. Barcelona (by a whisker): A decade ago, they were on the same level as or even a bit behind Bayern and United and and Milan and Juventus, but the era of Messi and Xaviesta has propelled them to the second spot (which shows how rapidly the landscape can change even in the elite tier following special, generation-defining turn of events) — they've grown massively in terms of their fanbase (especially in the younger demographic — which leads to more sustainable growth), added 9 league titles to their haul as well as 4 European Cups, have the biggest stadium in European club football, captured the imagination of most football aficionados in recent years with what was arguably the most beautiful and best club team of all time, and a great history wrt. players: ranging for Cruyff and Neeskens to Romário and Laudrup and Stoichkov and Ronaldo and Rivaldo and Messi, and so forth.

    3. Manchester United (decent lead over the rest of the best): I think what sets United apart from comparable clubs like Bayern or Milan or Juventus and Liverpool (who're all great on paper) is that it's always had a unique and compelling romantic charm — and has been loved across the world since the Busby era, even in periods where we weren't successful — whereas if you look at Milan now for instance, their legacy has eroded rapidly and their following/finances/gravitas have diminished by a significant degree just a decade after they were dominant in the Champions League. United has always had a massive following because of its story and been more erosion-proof — drawing people to packed stadiums or their television screens, magnetic players like Best and Beckham — who made United extremely “famous” — more so than the chasing pack, maximized their revenue with the Premier League era and growing popularity of football in English speaking developing countries (consistently towards the top and #1 right now) on top of benefiting from the halo effect of the Ferguson era — which lingers to this day in a myriad ways.

    Then the 4 giants, Bayern (suffer a bit because of the league they play in and traditionally didn't have a massive following in the international markets despite their success), Juventus (they've always been a bit dour and less fashionable outside of Italy than Milan though Ronaldo might change that especially considering their recent success relative to Milan), Liverpool and Milan (historic European powerhouses with great legacies and massive international followings) in a broad sense — one club might pull ahead at times, but they are on a comparable plane if you brush with a broad stroke, though Milan are in danger of falling a bit off the pace despite their illustrious history. And then Internazionale and Ajax.

    As for the here and now, United is definitely the gold standard for money and following — but unfortunately, not in terms of on-the-field organisation or decision-making or player personnel or recent success if you consider the post-Fergie era in isolation (it's important to make that distinction because including his time dilutes a more grounded present day assessment). There are 4 cleat-cut elite clubs right now: Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus and Bayern — probably in that order — gargantuan institutions and successful on the pitch. United can claim a spot in that that bracket if we improve rapidly because the institution itself has all the tools and massive appeal, so the onus is on the decision-makers and the manager(s) and the players, but in a purely footballing sense I'm afraid the two petro-clubs have pulled ahead in the short term, and Atlético can definitely stake a claim even though it's a much smaller institution. Too early to tell with Liverpool — definitely on the rise, but I'll withhold judgement for a bit longer.
  17. Sep 22, 2018
    #17

    oneniltothearsenal Caf's Milton Friedman (and Arse aficionado) Scout

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2013
    Messages:
    7,355
    Supports:
    Brazil, Arsenal,LA Aztecs
    If by "big" you mean the most popular clubs around the world then United is Top 3 along with Barca and Real from what I have seen. Those three are clearly more popular than any other club. I'd definitely rate Juventus 4th in terms of popularity globally even before Ronaldo went there but now that he is there no question who no.4 is. I don't think Bayern ranks very high in global popularity. Bayern (and the BL in general) just aren't and have never been that popular in the Americas and Asia from what I have seen.

    Tier 1: Real, Barca, United, Juventus
  18. Sep 22, 2018
    #18

    idmanager Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    2,843
    Are vivo fans allowed to chip in?
  19. Sep 22, 2018
    #19

    el magico Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Messages:
    633
    Supports:
    Manchester City
    If being 'big' means the likelihood of winning the biggest trophies (PL and CL) then Utd are currently some way off. The Uefa club co-efficients currently has Utd in 12th place and an absolute country mile behind the obvious top five.

    https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method5/trank2018.html

    If being 'big' is about number of supporters and 'brand' then Utd must be up there. Is that really important to a football fan as opposed to the football you watch?

    As a rival fan I rejoice with every further day that the Glazers and Mourinho remain at the club. Until a coherent footballing structure is put in place at Utd I think its unlikely you will be competing at the top table again. I am amazed and baffled by the support that your owners and manager continue to receive on here.
  20. Sep 22, 2018
    #20

    Raees Legal Guardian of the Football forums

    Joined:
    May 16, 2009
    Messages:
    26,802
    Spot on.

    On the pitch I’d say there is actually abit of a fluctuating situation going on and with Ronaldo leaving Real, very hard to say whose top dog in terms of tactical organisation, success and aesthetic quality. It’s why United actually stand a decent chance of catching up to the rest of the pack because the standard at the elite end of the spectrum isn’t as high as it was (Pep Barca or Bayern of yesteryear were truly elite elite sides). Real were a strong side but not doing it in the league but I’d say themselves and Juve have been the best all round sides in past 3-4 years followed by likes of PSG and Barca, Bayern. Liverpool if they win the league this year and have a solid CL run will catapult themselves into that top 5. Big if, but tactical organisation wise they’re very sophisticated - but they need success. City as much as they want to glorify Peps achievements are still no closer to knocking on the door of the European elite ... fanbase remains a real issue and their core is fragile and ageing (they will need a serious rebuild past this season - aside from KDB, Aguero and Silva still remain the faces of the team .. and Kompany is still a huge presence behind the scene).
  21. Sep 22, 2018
    #21

    Halds Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2016
    Messages:
    435
    Location:
    Denmark
    Supports:
    Liverpool FC
    You are not where you were with Ferguson obviously. All things considered, size of fanbase, history, trophies, recent succes, economy, pulling power, current strength, etc., I'd say you are definitely behind the two spanish giants now and probably behind Bayern and juve too because they keep collecting national league titles. You're still the biggest in England though, no doubt about that. Around No 5.
  22. Sep 22, 2018
    #22

    Tommy bigot with fetish for footballers getting fingered

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2014
    Messages:
    10,637
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Supports:
    Liverpool
    Biggest club in the country, primarily down to peaking at just the right time. Worldwide? Top 3, and again, primarily down to peaking at the right time.
  23. Sep 22, 2018
    #23

    Greek9 New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    225
    Supports:
    Panathinaikos
    Yes so difficult to win Serie A and Bundesliga
  24. Sep 22, 2018
    #24

    MyOnlySolskjaer Creator of Player Performance threads

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2014
    Messages:
    13,154
    Location:
    Player Performance Threads
    Fair post.
  25. Sep 22, 2018
    #25

    Halds Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2016
    Messages:
    435
    Location:
    Denmark
    Supports:
    Liverpool FC
    Very difficult for all other clubs in Bundesliga and Serie A, because of the strengths of these two clubs, don't you think?
  26. Sep 22, 2018
    #26

    Greek9 New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    225
    Supports:
    Panathinaikos
    No I don't, it's Olympiakos was dominating my country for like more than a decade the only team winning the league, are we supposed to feel the same about them too? Both these leagues if you exclude Juve and Bayern the rest are nonexistent, they literally do not exist, at least in relation to PL.
  27. Sep 22, 2018
    #27

    Trizy Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2014
    Messages:
    12,009
    The last 5 years we're basically Liverpool of the PL era (removing their part time success in 05-08). We're good enough to beat big teams but not good enough to win anything worth mentioning.

    The squad has been assembled by 3 completely different managers with contrasting styles. This has lead to terrible on the pitch performances as some of the players just aren't suited for the tactics. On top of that we tried the mega buck quick fix which has a 50/50 chance of working. Unfortunately for us, it was the latter of the 50s that happened us.

    We've lost our attacking identity. We play youth players for the sake of our history albeit most of them are not good enough to be starters (Lingard, Rashford, McTominay).

    Ultimately we've failed massively post-Fergie but it's not just because he was a great manager, it's because of how mis-managed our club as a whole is. Chelsea and City have replaced managers and won titles. We have no plan in place. We're going to jump on the next big name manager who is available when Jose eventually parts ways. The board won't care if he suits us or our squad, thus leaving us in the exact same boat as Moyes, LVG and eventually Jose.

    As a club we're still huge, probably only behind Real. We're rich as feck and have the most fans. But it means nothing without being successful.
  28. Sep 22, 2018
    #28

    Halds Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2016
    Messages:
    435
    Location:
    Denmark
    Supports:
    Liverpool FC
    Olympiakos are hardly favourites to go far in CL year after year like Bayern and Juventus are..
  29. Sep 22, 2018
    #29

    ypsipeos Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    Messages:
    503
    Let's see the top teams in each league.

    Serie A (2); Juventus, Napoli
    La Liga (3); Barcelona, Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Valencia
    Premier League (6); Chelsea, City, Liverpool, United, Tottenham, Arsenal
    Bundesliga (2); Bayern, Dortmund
    Ligue-1 (1); PSG

    And now, let's imagine that we had a league with these 15 teams. United would possibly win Tottenham, Arsenal, Dortmund, Valencia, Chelsea and Napoli. So, in terms of football, we could be in the top-9 of this supposed league or the last in the table. And that's where we placed last year, CHL top-16. No more than that, till we prove we are better.
    We are no better than Juventus, Real, Atletico, Barcelona, Bayern, City, Liverpool, PSG. We maybe are better than Tottenham, Chelsea, Napoli and Dortmund. We most possibly are better than Arsenal, Valencia.

    In terms of market value, we are always top-3.
  30. Sep 22, 2018
    #30

    Greek9 New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    225
    Supports:
    Panathinaikos
    Same thing if you compare the rest of serie A/Bundesliga with PL, not a single team favorites to go far in both leagues maybe bar Dortmund, where as there is at least 3 PL teams if we exclude United for this argument. If no other team has done anything of notice in Europe except for Juve then serie A shouldn't amount for anything in this argument. You think Juve or Bayern would win same amount of national titles if they were in PL? If you think so then your argument was valid, if not then I don't see how it's fair to bring national success in such discussion.
  31. Sep 22, 2018
    #31

    Mb194dc Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    1,090
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    This may not go down to well here, but:

    Utd is a top club financially at the level of RM, Barca, Bayern etc. Not by footballing metric though. Even the league cup, and EL titles recently were very fortunate. Goal was incorrectly disallowed in the LC final. In the EL, got outplayed by Vigo and very fortunate to go through. Then met Ajax in the final, when in most other seasons recently it's been Seville or Atletico Madrid who would have been massively harder opponents.

    Hiring Mourinho was a mistake, he's burnt out and plays dire route one football and relies too much on veterans and physical power. Was very surprised a club of Utd's standing went near him after his treatment of Eva Carneiro and the way things went down in his last season with us generally.

    Imo, Utd has lost it's way with the leveraged buyout by the Glazers, and the the continual focus on the commercial side, new sponsors and new shiny big money signings. Utd used to play and develop British / Irish players and then only sign the best to supplement it. I don't see Utd being at the top on the pitch until a proper footballing philosophy is developed. At the moment there is just a commercial one.
  32. Sep 22, 2018
    #32

    balaks Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2014
    Messages:
    6,219
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Supports:
    Tottenham Hotspur
    Big team in the 60's, nothing team in the 70's and 80's, big team in 90's and 00's. Currently not sure what to rate them as.
  33. Sep 22, 2018
    #33

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2005
    Messages:
    18,148
    Liverpool?
    Milan?

    What the actual feck?
  34. Sep 22, 2018
    #34

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2005
    Messages:
    18,148
    Questioning how a team won a trophy is very dangerous ground to go down, weren't Chelsea for example comfortably out played by both Barcelona and then in the final by Bayern Munich when they won the UCL? Every trophy whether it be a cup run or a league have moments of good fortune

    Oh and we absolutely battered Vigo in the first leg away from home just FYI
  35. Sep 22, 2018
    #35

    A-man Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Messages:
    918
    If you look at player by player instead of team, hardly any of them is good enough. Pogba and DDG are the only two who would have a chance to play in a top team like Barcelona or Real, but there is a big chance they would spend most time on the bench.

    A great team could still be built from these players, but I agree with you, I don’t see that Mourinho is the man to do that. I would however not rank United among the top-10 in Europe, more top -15 or 20.
  36. Sep 22, 2018
    #36

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2005
    Messages:
    18,148
    There's not a team on this planet where Pogba and De Gea wouldn't play week in week out
  37. Sep 22, 2018
    #37

    balaks Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2014
    Messages:
    6,219
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Supports:
    Tottenham Hotspur
    Are you an opposition fan? That's simply just not true is it.
  38. Sep 22, 2018
    #38

    Greck Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    2,477
    Lots of oppo fan opinions to disagree with on this page but that's not the point of the thread.
  39. Sep 22, 2018
    #39

    Halds Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2016
    Messages:
    435
    Location:
    Denmark
    Supports:
    Liverpool FC
    I am not arguing whether Serie A or Bundesliga is as strong as PL. I don't think they are by the way.

    But dismissing Serie A and Bundesliga as rubbish, because Bayern and Juve are stronger than the rest is way off the mark though. They are still strong leagues. And domestic and recent succes is clearly a part of the evaluation, when we are to determine how big a club is imo.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
  40. Sep 22, 2018
    #40

    Bestietom Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2013
    Messages:
    2,426
    Location:
    Ireland
    We have a few decent players but only about 2 world class players in De Gea and Pogba. We also have some deadwood that don't deserve to be at Manchester United.

    It's still a work in progress that will take some time yet, and I don't know if we have the right man in charge to do this. We have some very good prospects in the academy and these young players need to be introduced slowly, and looked after in the right way.

    Yes we are one of the biggest clubs in the world, but our teams have not shown this in the past few years. We need to be competing much better in europe, and in our Premier League