Optimism

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Paz, Apr 15, 2018.

  1. Apr 16, 2018 at 15:00

    tombombadil Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1,452
    Location:
    Some god forsaken part of Middle Earth
    I couldn't agree more. Listening to some people here, you'd think United were the worst team in the world.
  2. Apr 16, 2018 at 16:11

    jem Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    5,345
    Location:
    Toronto
    I see that you are in Toronto - I think the weather has just given you a healthy dose of perspective.
  3. Apr 16, 2018 at 16:18

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2011
    Messages:
    54,462
    Location:
    Barrow In Furness
    So watching United now has to be a chore? We win trophies so we should be happy, even if you want to bang your head against a brick wall in the process.
  4. Apr 16, 2018 at 16:22

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2011
    Messages:
    54,462
    Location:
    Barrow In Furness
    They aren't saying they are the worst. We obviously aren't but why can't he get them to play decent football? Second place, not a certainty by the way and an F.A. Cup, not a certainty either is great, but my god there is no excitement watching this team. You could probably sleep through the F.A. Cup final, wake up to find we have won and say, 'That's nice'. Then go back to sleep.
  5. Apr 16, 2018 at 16:27

    Mr Anderson Eats, shoots, leaves

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    22,560
    Location:
    Ireland
    It doesnt have to be a chore. But the naysayers are using that as the be all and end all to potentially question the tenure of Jose. We've rectified our results compared to last season. With that better understanding, why is it most think it will be the same next season? We have made progress. You'd swear we are in a relegation battle.
  6. Apr 16, 2018 at 16:34

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2011
    Messages:
    54,462
    Location:
    Barrow In Furness
    It might improve as long as he hasn't p*'d off a load of the players and there is yet another large turnover of players. If that happens we will be back at square one. Ok some need to go, but it is a worry that some of the talented ones are getting itchy feet.
  7. Apr 16, 2018 at 16:38

    Speedicut75 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2014
    Messages:
    336
    Location:
    Greater Manchester.
    I'm trying to remain upbeat, which has been somewhat difficult as I've been in Stockport for most of the day; which for anyone who doesn't know is pretty much the epicentre of Manchester City's fanbase. And everyone from said town has been very appreciative of UTD's charitable attitude in handing them the league during yesterday's game where we managed to bend over and let the Baggies have at us without so much as an embarrassed whimper. We're good like that, apparently.
  8. Apr 16, 2018 at 16:40

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2011
    Messages:
    54,462
    Location:
    Barrow In Furness
    I am going to the hairdressers on Wednesday and the owner is a City fan. Thank god it isn't a particularly long appointment. I will just have to bite my tongue.
  9. Apr 16, 2018 at 16:55

    Speedicut75 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2014
    Messages:
    336
    Location:
    Greater Manchester.
    It's been a very long day for me today. It pales into insignificance, mind you, when compared to the" AGUEROOOOOOOOOOOO!" incident which in Stockport went on for fecking months.
    Fortunately I had a hairdresser at the time who was a UTD fan so we were able to commiserate somewhat, and I even cracked a smile when told me he'd physically thrown one particularly obnoxious Citeh fan out of the shop. Every cloud has a silver lining, I suppose ( you see, there I go again, just like the op, I'm being optimistic! ).
  10. Apr 16, 2018 at 16:57

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2011
    Messages:
    54,462
    Location:
    Barrow In Furness
    :lol: Let's just hope things get better for us.
  11. Apr 16, 2018 at 16:59

    The Brown Bull Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,230
    Location:
    Dublin.
    If you are not the only one here who feels like that then you should be! No fan could be happy with the dross we have seen this season.We are a sorry mess right now.
  12. Apr 16, 2018 at 17:01

    Mr Anderson Eats, shoots, leaves

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    22,560
    Location:
    Ireland
    Lads on the bench (bar Bailly, Rojo & Romero) and starting XI seem to be the main core squad now. Those left out are as good as gone (Fellaini, Darmian, Blind, Shaw, Carrick retiring). Martial and Pogba seems all press talk again, well more so Pogba especially after his gestures at City. I have no doubt Rashford talk is bull. Martial will be alright as he is here until 2020 with the year add-on so no fear there - but the ball is also in his court to pull the socks up and produce when called upon.

    So those on the brink arent integral at all. 3-4 in plus Fosu for right back. Andreas Periera is the interesting one - think he's burned his bridges. Tuanzabe or McTominay then / one stay and one loan you feel.
  13. Apr 16, 2018 at 17:01

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2011
    Messages:
    54,462
    Location:
    Barrow In Furness
    I hope we do finish above Liverpool and Spurs or some are going to be less optimistic.
  14. Apr 16, 2018 at 17:05

    Mr Anderson Eats, shoots, leaves

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    22,560
    Location:
    Ireland
    It isn't about being really happy. It's evident there is work to do, but we have also made progress. We do need to work on our style on the pitch of course, but continuity is much better than our constant draws last season.

    A mess is Chelsea or Arsenal level. This is an example of making it sound worse than it is.
  15. Apr 16, 2018 at 18:54

    VP Full Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2006
    Messages:
    10,887
    Those teams are competing just like us - Spurs are in the semi final of the FA Cup; Liverpool are in the CL semis - while playing significantly better football with significantly less resources.

    It's his job to motivate his players. If we absolve him of those responsibilities, what's left?
  16. Apr 16, 2018 at 19:21

    Paz ex-Goldman Sachs Janitor, Martial hater

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    18,972
    Location:
    Londoner (UK) in Toronto (Canada)!
    Mate, is it really April?! :annoyed:
  17. Apr 16, 2018 at 19:23

    Paz ex-Goldman Sachs Janitor, Martial hater

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    18,972
    Location:
    Londoner (UK) in Toronto (Canada)!
    Obviously I am not ‘happy’ - I am optimistic that, as a club, we are moving in the right direction.
  18. Apr 17, 2018 at 01:51

    jem Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    5,345
    Location:
    Toronto
    It’s insane. But hopefully that’s it :nervous:
  19. Apr 17, 2018 at 10:39

    The Brown Bull Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,230
    Location:
    Dublin.
    On what evidence do you base your view that we are heading in the right direction? Seriously? I find it very hard to be optimistic based on what I've seen.
  20. Apr 17, 2018 at 14:44

    Paz ex-Goldman Sachs Janitor, Martial hater

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    18,972
    Location:
    Londoner (UK) in Toronto (Canada)!
    Well:

    1. We can attract world class players again (Bale, Cesc, Kroos turned us down apparently).
    2. I’m still confident we have the right man at the helm, a top5 of world football manager who has ‘built’ many squads.
    3. We started the season great, we scored loads and conceded few. I’m sure no one was complaining then. So we are capable, it’s not just been poor performance after poor performance.
    4. Re recent performances, yes very poor, but at least we can identify areas of improvement, now just a wait to see if Jose can execute.
    5. After all that, all the gloom, all the complaints we are literally 2nd, only to an outstanding City team. If we were 5/6/7/8 then I’d be far more worried.
  21. Apr 18, 2018 at 10:41

    The Brown Bull Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,230
    Location:
    Dublin.
    1.Where is the evidence that we can attract world class players? Who have we signed?
    2.I am and never was confident in Mourinho being the right man for us.
    3.Our start to the season was illusory, we did score some but they tended to be towards the end of games and created a false picture.We were not dominating games or putting teams away in impressive fashion.
    4.I would argue that all areas apart for goalkeeper need improving and our Keeper may well up sticks and go to Real this summer ( who could blame him!)
    5.At the moment we are 2nd , 1 point ahead of Liverpool, I would not bet stolen cash on us finishing 2nd.Furthermore we are 2nd by a huge distance and have been all season.
  22. Apr 18, 2018 at 11:03

    Sing you a song Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2017
    Messages:
    246

    The problem is that the fact we are second doesn't tell the whole story let's be realistic, we are second because ......
    Arsenal have finally imploded after several years of threatening to do so.

    Chelsea players have once again decided to down tools and get their manager sacked which they look to do every second year .

    Tottenham for all the hype and great press remain inconsistent and once again blow up in the big games ( please let them do it again this weekend )

    Liverpool after inconsistency in the first half of the season have bought a dominant centre back and now look to have a team and a system that looks really of capable of getting the glory days back ( god forbid )

    We know Chelsea will come back stronger , City will strengthen an already fantastic squad , Liverpool will strengthen and have a very charismatic and popular manager who brings the best out in his players.

    United have a team that still looks in transition and appears to be miles away from the finished article we need new full backs , an new CB 2 new CM , Width a new captain and leader on the pitch and some team spirit which looks sadly lacking.

    Yes we are second but mainly due to the failings and lack of consistency of the teams around us
  23. Apr 18, 2018 at 11:16

    Smores Full Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    14,893
    Location:
    Dark side of the moon
    Results wise City are the only one ahead of us and performance wise only Chelsea and Liverpool (mostly) play what I'd consider entertaining football. People saying Spurs are just drinking the koolaid.

    We have massive scope for improvement in several positions and I'm convinced we will improve in output and style. Plenty to be optimistic about.

    We shouldn't be addicted to gloom because of previous years.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018 at 11:33
  24. Apr 18, 2018 at 11:25

    Di Maria's angel Captain of Moanchester United

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    8,586
    Location:
    London
    So, City are also first because of the above?
  25. Apr 18, 2018 at 11:32

    Sing you a song Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2017
    Messages:
    246
    It certainly is a factor with the massive points difference between them and the rest .
    But let's face it they are champions because they have a fantastic squad of players that all seem happy to play for the manager are all pulling in one direction and in Kompany ( compared to Valencia) an inspirational captain on the pitch
  26. Apr 18, 2018 at 11:42

    sunama Baghdad Bob

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Messages:
    11,080
    Well, I too, am optimistic.
    When Moyes was announced I knew that we were done for. But after he left, we got LVG who moved us forward.
    After him, in came Jose who has improved us and will do so again next season.
    Moyes was the guy who took us back by around 3-4 years. In that one season, he took us from reigning champs to 7th place and this should not be forgotten.

    Put it another way. Take MCFC as they are now and put Moyes in charge for 10 months. I promise you that he will set them back several years, in exactly the same as he did to us. The difference is that MCFC would not be foolish enough to hire a manager of his level. To hire a manager who has never won a trophy and then expect him to win a trophy at his new club, almost immediately, was ludicrous. And this is the very reason why I do not want Poch to join us, until he has proved himself. The pressure that Moyes was under (to do something that he had not done in decades of management), would've been immense and I would not like to see another man or woman go through that, at our club.
  27. Apr 18, 2018 at 11:44

    sunama Baghdad Bob

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Messages:
    11,080
    To clarify, these are all opinions and supposition. Not fact.
    Here is a fact: we are in 2nd place and over the course of a season, are still ahead of LFC. Where their fans seem content with the improvement, our fans are moaning.

    I can see that this thread is becoming a Jose In vs Jose Out.
  28. Apr 18, 2018 at 11:53

    The_Order Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,541
    Key difference is that Klopp has built up a solid foundation to propel his lot with a clear styleof pplay while playing some electrifying stuff.

    We seem to be brute forcing our way through most games. Our players still play like strangers.

    That for me is the most worrying aspect of our set up.
  29. Apr 18, 2018 at 17:33

    Paz ex-Goldman Sachs Janitor, Martial hater

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    18,972
    Location:
    Londoner (UK) in Toronto (Canada)!
    Errrrr - not sure if serious
  30. Apr 19, 2018 at 10:05

    The Brown Bull Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,230
    Location:
    Dublin.
    Deadly serious.Which world class player have we signed?
  31. Apr 19, 2018 at 12:46

    Paz ex-Goldman Sachs Janitor, Martial hater

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    18,972
    Location:
    Londoner (UK) in Toronto (Canada)!
  32. Apr 19, 2018 at 12:46

    Paz ex-Goldman Sachs Janitor, Martial hater

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    18,972
    Location:
    Londoner (UK) in Toronto (Canada)!
    Zlatan, Pogba, Miki - at the time, to start....
  33. Apr 19, 2018 at 13:02

    The Brown Bull Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,230
    Location:
    Dublin.
    Oh come off it.Zlatan in his prime was arguably world class but he was well short of his prime when we signed him.
    Mkhi & Pogba are not world class players.
    Paying a huge fee dosn’t mean you have bought world class.
  34. Apr 19, 2018 at 15:53

    Paz ex-Goldman Sachs Janitor, Martial hater

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    18,972
    Location:
    Londoner (UK) in Toronto (Canada)!
    Would they have even contemplated without a Jose-like world class manager at the helm?
  35. Apr 19, 2018 at 16:22

    giorno Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2016
    Messages:
    8,247
    Supports:
    Real Madrid
    Yes, because City with their boring pragmatic football are only on track to break every PL record ever

    Because Liverpool with their boring pragmatic football are only 3rd, 4 points behind United and in the semifinal of the CL

    Because real madrid with their boring pragmatic football have only won 3 of the last 4 CL, and the they didn't win was won by Barcelona, notorious for their boring pragmatic football

    Of course, we all know the only way you can win stuff is by playing boring pragmatic and negative football. Remember the treble winners of '99? Historic achievement, but man they sure bored the feck out of people...
  36. Apr 19, 2018 at 16:39

    christinaa Gossip Girl

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Messages:
    3,141
    '99 treble winners bored the feck out of people ??!!! :lol::lol::lol:
  37. Apr 19, 2018 at 17:15

    Rash Decision New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Messages:
    101
    Location:
    Hidden
    He's being sarcastic. Check the post he responded to.
  38. Apr 19, 2018 at 17:57

    giorno Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2016
    Messages:
    8,247
    Supports:
    Real Madrid
    They won the treble! How could they possibly do it without playing boring negative football?!? :houllier:
  39. Apr 19, 2018 at 18:10

    christinaa Gossip Girl

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Messages:
    3,141
    You'd be surprised ! :houllier:
  40. Apr 19, 2018 at 18:14

    Andersons Dietician Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Messages:
    3,387
    Supports:
    Supports good football
    I bet they wouldn’t.