Our Transfers: Falcao, Di Maria, Schweinsteiger, Sanchez

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by shamans, Apr 15, 2018.

  1. Apr 15, 2018
    #41

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate

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    It was definitely outlandish, simply because it's very easy to name five unquestionable players that year, CL and World Cup included. Messi, Robben, Ronaldo, Modric, Neuer, Lahm, Kroos, Neymar, Godin, Suarez and Iniesta. All of these players were better that year, were better before and better after. And there are other players above him, the simple fact that the Ballon D'Or failed to give a better rank than 10 should tell you something when they are as kneejerk as it comes and put the CL above pretty much everything.
  2. Apr 15, 2018
    #42

    davidmichael Full Member

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    We’ve also bought Martial, Pogba, Bailly, Shaw and Lindelof who were/are in their early 20’s/teens when they signed for us.

    The problem is/was management as the style of our current and prior managers has alienated and sucked the life out of players, it’s nothing to do with their age and everything to do with how they’re being/were managed.
  3. Apr 15, 2018
    #43

    el3mel Full Member

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    You are naming players based on their names not on their performance that year.
  4. Apr 15, 2018
    #44

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate

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    No, I'm namng players based on their seasons but just take me for an idiot.
  5. Apr 15, 2018
    #45

    hobbers Full Member

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    Falcao and Schwein are in a hellova different category to Sanchez and Di Maria.

    Former two had severe fitness issues and were not physically cut out for Prem football at that point in their careers. Both were bad signings on the basis of their fitness and should have been avoided, but then both came very cheap.

    Di Maria had severe confidence issues/couldnt settle in the country. Not mentally cut out for the Prem in other words.
  6. Apr 15, 2018
    #46

    el3mel Full Member

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    No chance players like Godin, Lahm, Kroos, even Ineista were better than Di Maria this season with all respect to them. You are underestimatimg Di Maria performance this season massively to the point I suggest you rewatch it if you have time.
  7. Apr 15, 2018
    #47

    Antisocial Has a Sony home cinema

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    This, basically.

    The time to buy marquee players was when we were making Champions League finals, or replacing players like Ronaldo and Tevez. Instead we were looking for "value", which played a part in us being in our current state after we lost the man who made us special.
  8. Apr 15, 2018
    #48

    shamans 1 set of sheets, optimistic about chances of sex

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    Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
    Well I am speaking for myself then. I thought Sanches was exactly what we needed and honestly thought it would take him 1-2 games to get going but it hasn't happened and I don't know why
  9. Apr 15, 2018
    #49

    shamans 1 set of sheets, optimistic about chances of sex

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    Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
    Point is that Ibra was a decent transfer because we didn't expect a lot from him.
  10. Apr 15, 2018
    #50

    Frings Banned

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    It all stems from our general lack of identity as a football club. Different managers come in, impose their vision -or lack of one- on the board, suggest players and the board sanctions. It was the reason we missed out on Thiago, Cesc and possibly Kroos when Moyes was here.

    With regards to marque signings, I thought at the time that Woodward just wanted to swing his dick in the transfer market, a sort of statement as to our financial powress.

    Falcao was a crock, coming off a bad injury that hadn't healed properly before featuring the world cup so there was only one way that was going to end here, but we can't complain, it was a loan after all.

    Scwheinsteiger was physically shot the season before we bought him. Even St. Pep had a press conference for Bayern where he mentioned him not being at the required physical levels to compete in their team, but LvG in all his wisdom believed he'd have cut it in an even more physically demanding league, with no winter breaks. Again the lack of identity!

    Di Maria we were just unlucky with..Or maybe not. He never wanted to be here, he had his mind set on Paris when it became obvious Flo saw him as dispensable, yet he had the right profile for the football club so I wouldn't want to be harsh on Woodward for that, but rumor has it LvG didn't approve of the signing at the time as he was the complete opposite of the type of player we needed in Van Gaal's rigid, risk averse system.

    The jury is still out on Sanchez but I think we also got him without any plan as to how he'd fit in on the long run. I believe he's best centrally, a position Jose will never play him. On the left he's very hit and miss, and on the right he's just..I don't know, average.

    So in summary, we haven't been unlucky, it has been the result of lack of identity in our choice of manager and playstyle as a club, and Woodward trying to swing his Weiner in the transfer market even to the detriment of the current team.
  11. Apr 16, 2018
    #51

    Luke1995 Full Member

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    Well, at least Di Maria gave us a few (Even if VERY few) unforgettable moments. In certain games he was world class for us, before LVG ruined it.

    Bastian was decent in 2015-16 but he peaked in the 2014 WC and should have been sold before Mourinho took charge anyway.

    Falcao was by far the worst although it has to be noted he was still struggling with the injury which ruled him out of the WC.

    Sanchez I don't know what to think, he literally haven't done anything remotely close to his Arsenal form.

    In short, Di Maria Bastian and Falcao could have suceeded here under different circunstances, they either got the wrong manager or came at bad timing in their careers.

    Michael Owen actually made a bigger impact than all of them
  12. Apr 16, 2018
    #52

    Bastian Full Member

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    I beg to differ. I think Jose wanted him in because he would immediately raise the level of determination and hunger, the difference. Which he was. What we haven't done well is recruit players of the right mentality over the years, including dating back to SAF's later years.

    I don't believe for instance that (outside LVG, who knows what he instructed the players to do and not do) managers tell the players not to run, not to fight. But we tend to be lazy, lackadaisical, indecisive. We raise our game at times and we respond to adversity, but we have not shown a level of consistent quality performances for 5 years.

    Has there ever been a successful team in the history of football that lacked characters? I can't think of any.
  13. Apr 16, 2018
    #53

    jem Full Member

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    Loans, gambles, whatever: our transfer activity post-Ferguson (and during his last few years unfortunately,) has been a massive failure. You look at the number of quality players that City have brought in since the beginning of the decade (Silva, Toure, Aguero, De Bruyne, Sane, Fernandinho, to name just the most obvious ones,) and compare that to the number of unqualified successes we've had in the market (De Gea, RVP...and that's about it,) and it's not really that hard to see why there is such a chasm in quality between the two sides. Managerial instability seems like a viable reason, but then City have gone through their share of managers, each with his own style. Pogba, Martial, Matic, Bailly and Sanchez may shift that balance a bit, but I'm not holding my breath (and it's not like I included the likes of Ederson, Mendy, Walker, Laporte, Gundogan, Jesus and Bernardo in the City list.)

    Until we can find a solution to this transfer malaise (and I don't pretend to know what that solution is,) we're going to have a huge challenge staying in the CL spots, let alone fighting for the top honours domestically and in Europe.
  14. Apr 16, 2018
    #54

    Kag Full Member

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    Our approach to transfers has been good in recent years. Much better than it was during the annual debacles of Ferguson's latter years (Van Persie aside). David Gill might just be football's biggest imposter, which is why he now sits so high up in FIFA's idiot parade.

    Only in hindsight has our transfer business been maligned. A result of rank management courtesy of three pragmatic managers that had/have serious issues on the attack.

    People wanted the future, so we bought Shaw and Martial. We needed leaders, so brought in Schweinsteiger and Ibrahimovic. We needed "world class" (whatever the feck that means) players and bought Di Maria, Pogba and Sanchez. People wanted us to buy solid Premier League players that other top teams were going for but we weren't. So we brought in Schneiderlin.

    Our business has been largely logical for some while.
  15. Apr 16, 2018
    #55

    Raoul Admin Staff

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    Bad management. Klopp would've done something completely different with these players.
  16. Apr 16, 2018
    #56

    Raoul Admin Staff

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    Its a bit problematic to lump all these players into being part of our transfer policy since each individual manager had different views on which players they wanted and all of these players are a collective result of three different managers with diverging views and tactics.
  17. Apr 16, 2018
    #57

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    Falcao - right after ACL surgery, yeah you can play after a year but no chance you're any good for at least another year after. In falcao's case, never recovered.

    Di Maria - antithesis of a Van Gaal player. Huge risk taker, runs with the ball all the time, tries things often... Van Gaal likes safe possession and not running with the ball.

    Schweinsteiger - Bayern legend, ready for retirement league, came here and didn't take it seriously. Basically past it.

    Sanchez - quality player still. Having a lack of attacking system not helping him. Can back this up by pointing to every single other flair or attacking player we have and seeing how they are usually useless as well. Blame goes on the manager.

    Also if you want Mata.... one season wonder for a team who finished 6th and he was especially productive from set pieces specifically. Not exactly sustainable or a sign of a world class player.
  18. Apr 16, 2018
    #58

    Giggs86 Full Member

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    He was man of the match in Madrid's CL final and was arguably Argentina's best player in the WC until his injury.
  19. Apr 16, 2018
    #59

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

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    Falcao wasn't ready for PL football after the injury he had. He needed to be playing and neither United nor Chelsea could give him that.

    Schweinsteiger was finished, done. Bayern sold us damaged goods, laughed about it at then publicly criticized us about him being shit.

    Di María was a mental problem. One of the most common reasons a good player doesn't perform is what happened to him. Not every human being can move to a different culture and just funtion there like normal. The culture might even be similar but everyone speaks a different language and that's enough for you to not fit in. His football probably wasn't helped with LvG being the manager. He moved from Madrid, a sunny city where everyone speaks Spanish like him, to Manchester, a nice city but a somewhat grey and rainy one where everyone speaks English not like you hear when you're learning English. Add to that the manager who bought him was a has-been who also happened to be the current vessel of the demon of who sucks joy out of football. Had Mourinho bought him he at least wouldn't have transfered for football reasons.

    Sánchez is fine. He's joining a new club in the middle of the season which can always be difficult. To be fair to him our attack without him wasn't a smooth-flowing river and he came in and messed it up. It has been disjointed for the most part since SAF decided to give other managers a chance.

    Signings like Shaw didn't turn crap. A young player like him is always a risk because we've only seen the best part about him. When United bought him he had basically not experienced adversity in his career. Playing for an underdog isn't adversity, that's reality. At United he finds himself on the bench. He goes through a horrible injury and struggles to maintain fitness after it. That affects people. You start to question yourself, the manager, the sport. Bunch of little things that a focused footballer puts past him will niggle that player and affect his performance and he needs to get over that. It might take a game or two, it might not be fixed. It's hard to say. At a club of United's size you don't get as much slack. You just need to recover or you're done and have to move on and recover elsewhere.

    Football, the game itself is a very simple concept but the most complicated part of it is a side that fans don't relate to or see, namely the mental part of the game and how different people can be. To name an example, I was listening to the manager who brough Jóhann Berg Guðmundsson (Burnley winger and currently Iceland's best player) into first team football, managed him from a teen until he was sold to AZ Alkmaar at 19. When Alkmaar bought him he was a left winger, an attacking one who was fast and liked to hug the line. Good crosses and can be tricky. This manager (he's probably Iceland's smartes one, Bayern frequently use him as a scout for certain regions in the CL) did not see in him what he's now. What's he's not is that he's a very good at defending. He bascially couldn't defend until 4 seasons ago or so. Somewhere down the line his mentality shifted and he focused on that part of his game. He didn't get worse at attacking, he didn't really improve it significantly but he transformed his game by being a good defender on top of his other skills and now Sean Dyche sees him as one of the first names he picks each weekend. Just last season he was in rotation. He also plays on the right now for club and country. You might think that's a relative simple change to make but look at our squad. Stacked with players who can play on the left but can't perform on the right. It's not like he's a better player than Martial or Rashford. He's not a John O'Shea type either, he's strictly a winger but his shift in mentality has taken him from being a good prospect by Icelandic standard to becoming a key player for a top 10 club in the PL and no one that knows him predicted that.

    Now with this little story in mind look at Di María. Probably Real Madrid's best or 2nd best player in a CL and Copa title winning season. Is then sold and subsequently went from one of the hottest properties in football to not making the first team at United to being sold to PSG to being replaced at PSG and he's on the bench again. Still a good player but doesn't have that oumph that we saw at Madrid. It's probably a mix of change in environment, team mates, friends, manager that does that. Sometimes it happen. Verón didn't turn out like expected. Forlán exploded after SAF sold him. SAF however had relatively few cases like that where he bought a very good player that then didn't perform because SAF was a good judge a character and usually he did his homework specifically on that aspect before signing them (talking with the parents, asking coaches what kind of person they are etc.).
  20. Apr 16, 2018
    #60

    The Mad Manc Full Member

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    Watching Salah light it up for the dippers got me wondering when the last time was that we signed a player that made such an impact and I'm honestly scratching my bonce.

    Under Fergie (yes times have moved on, blah, blah, blah) we very rarely made marquee signings. Most often we signed young lads with the potential to be moulded into Manchester United players. This has largely been lost post-Fergie.
  21. Apr 16, 2018
    #61

    The United Full Member

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    I really don't get how or why people blamed LVG for Di Maria being a snake.

    In fact, LVG tried to find a position for him the whole season everywhere to fit the team for him and it didn't seem like he could hack it in EPL long term. Also, it was not LVG's fault that Young in later that season outperformed Di Maria which says a lot more about the guy.

    And, LVG's first season was hardly a disaster.
  22. Apr 16, 2018
    #62

    mark_a Full Member

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    It's because we've got "something wrong" * that means if we signed one of these proven current aces (Salah, De Bruyne etc..) I think they'd look good for a week or two then disappear in the 11-men mire of under-performance, lack of leadership and inconsistency that we have. There would be good weeks, but the default would be under-achieving in relation to the talent in the team. There's a collective lack of direction, fear call it what you want. Clearly we are good enough to put in good performances (City 2nd half etc..) and we're currently 2nd, but we should have players putting in good consistent shifts and staking claims on places. Match-goers and regular watchers will know there's "something wrong" despite what we hope will be a 2nd place finish, and an improvement on last season. We have the players to play far more direct and attacking, so why do things collapse into sideways/backwards passes and lack of direct risk-taking play?

    Same would go for "improving players", which the overpaid, lazy pundits say Mourhino doesn't do. A misfiring XI is not a great environment for improvement of players!


    * Lack of confidence, lack of clear vision, lack of leaders on the field, too many players being "carried" who may or may not have a shout at a place, issues worsened by pressure from media, hyper-analysis from the media which usually focuses on our shortcomings, side issue of us being clickbait is swathes of destabilising news stories about us (we rally & come back against City and stories following week are about players who should leave!) - I think a combination of all this clearly won't help the atmosphere. SAF had 2 big advantages (a) he was SAF, he both had "it" and was also such a cult of personality and (b) he managed to turn a lot of this stuff into positives e.g. siege mentality etc.. I'll bet Moyes, LvG and JM haven't had anything like they've experienced as managers at United.
  23. Apr 16, 2018
    #63

    ::sonny:: Full Member

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    We are signing shite over shite, Matic and Bailly the only good transfers recently

    Sanchez the most uselss, with Rashford and Martial really don’t need a player in that role

    We have as CB players like Smalling, Jones and Rojo plus an average one like Lindelof.

    A disaster

  24. Apr 16, 2018
    #64

    Bestietom Full Member

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    I do think that 2 top proper full backs a top midfielder and a right winger would change things dramatically, as long as we play with width and not predictably through the middle all the time. Mourinho has to change his tactics and not think so defensively.
  25. Apr 16, 2018
    #65

    Schneckerl Full Member

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    So frustrating

    Buy established great player, turns out not so great
    Tottenham, Liverpool, City: Buy not so great unproven player, turns out great
  26. Apr 16, 2018
    #66

    MUFC OK Full Member

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    Agree with this, far too early and joined the club in different circumstances to the others. He is premier league proven and will show his worth next season.
  27. Apr 16, 2018
    #67

    RedDevil@84 Full Member

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    He is helping. Unless you thought he will make us pip FC Pep to the title
  28. Apr 16, 2018
    #68

    shamans 1 set of sheets, optimistic about chances of sex

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    Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
    He is trying his best but nothing special so far bar a few halfs
  29. Apr 16, 2018
    #69

    Andycoleno9 Full Member

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    Board decided to splash cash on world class players. For every of that players there was total (positive) meltdown here on redcafe. So we were lucky that board decided to spent on proven quality. Some of them were flops but who would know. As i said , we fans were over the moon for all of those players. It is easy to be general after battle. Also it is becoming a myth that all our big signings are flops. Zlatan was hit. Lukaku was hit. Pogba and sanchez are not flops. And still they can be hits. We will see. Sanchez is here only 2 months ffs.

    Would you be happier that we splash cash on non-star players( like some posters want)? It is much worse option, imo. Look at our non-big name signings; Schneiderlin, shaw, darmian, depay, lindelof. All were/are disaster for us.
    Look at liverpool and arsenal. This is first year that liverpool had good transfers with that policy. Arsenal's only good transfers in last 5 years were sanchez and ozil( who were star players). And they spent fortune on xhaka, laccazete, mustafi, gabriel, etc...
  30. Apr 16, 2018
    #70

    ROFLUTION Full Member

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    Hunger. Under Fergie the policy was to buy huge talents with hunger and nurture them - Now we buy proven, but maybe not so hungry?

    I think it affects a player to already have been at a big club also. The next big club, might not feel like something as special, and therefore there is a "I've made it already, so feck it" mentality, when everything doesn't go according to the plan.
  31. Apr 16, 2018
    #71

    Pexbo has never watched Star Wars

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    Bit weird to use that against Mourinho considering the only one of his signings that has left was used as a token to upgrade to Sanchez.
  32. Apr 16, 2018
    #72

    LennonNL nipple flasher and door destroyer

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    Begs the question how up to scratch are our scouts? Seem like fecking amateurs to me.
  33. Apr 16, 2018
    #73

    LennonNL nipple flasher and door destroyer

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    What’d you expect from Luckhurst. Always seems a bit clueless to me.
  34. Apr 16, 2018
    #74

    Josep Dowling Full Member

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    Team balance has been completely ruined by the signing of Sanchez whilst also unsettling our only two promising youngsters. And so far he has been awful.

    So yes I would say Sanchez has been a disaster signing so far.
  35. Apr 16, 2018
    #75

    Josep Dowling Full Member

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    I opened up a thread over a year ago about this and it’s still clear to me we must have one of the worst scouting systems of any of the top clubs. Even when we find someone no one is really aware about (Martial), we end up paying so 3 times more than the next bidder.
  36. Apr 17, 2018
    #76

    Schneckerl Full Member

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    Some of them started playing well for other clubs. Di Maria didn't want to be here, Falcao had injury problems.

    Got to have doubts about player development too. I don't know how someone like Eriksen or Salah would have turned out here.
  37. Apr 17, 2018
    #77

    RedTillI'mDead A Key Tool

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    Falcao had bad injury problems and was always a gamble. He didn't get enough supply under LVG to get back to his level.

    Schweni was actually not terrible. Again injuries leading up to the move made him half the player.

    Di Maria was arguably just unlucky with circumstances, but again not sure our play supported his qualities.

    Sanchez is the only one there that I can straight up say if he doesn't do well only the manager is to blame. Sanchez is world class. Top 10 maybe even 5 for his position/s.

    Im sorry, but someone like Sanchez with his experience doesn't just become shite. He should shine and if doesn't we need to find a manager who can make him, because if Sanchez can't then almost no one can.
  38. Apr 17, 2018
    #78

    Gordon S New Member

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    Sanchez has played pretty much the same all season. People were defending him saying he didn't want to play for Arsenal anymore, but nothing has changed since his move. He is a good player but he doesn't really bring more to the team than Martial or Rashford imo.

    What are you guys expecting to happen to his game next season? At this stage of his career decline is unfortunately more likely than improvement.

    It's hard to say no to these established top players when they become available, but it seems to come at a cost of good teambuilding. The club needs to be more focused and only try to bring players we really need.
  39. Apr 17, 2018
    #79

    Ban Full Member

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    How about giving Sanchez some time.

    No?
  40. Apr 17, 2018
    #80

    LennonNL nipple flasher and door destroyer

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    Oh yeah cause he’s the only big name to have come in and underperformed. This thread isn’t really about Sanchez.