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P&G Draft - R1: MJJ vs P-Nut/EAP

Discussion in 'Draft Games Forum' started by Physiocrat, Aug 6, 2018.

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Who would win with the players at their peak?

Poll closed Aug 7, 2018.
  1. MJJ

    53.5%
  2. P-Nut/EAP

    46.5%
  1. Aug 6, 2018
    #1

    Physiocrat Full Member

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    [​IMG][​IMG]
    MJJ

    I am playing a 4-3-3 which relies on the passing ability of riquelme to function, I have suarez as a striker who is one of the best poachers,dribblers and passers of the last generation. He will open up space for both boniek and hamrin, two of the best goal scoring wingers of all time. With riquelme controlling the tempo and his vision, I should be able to create goal scoring opportunities for all three.

    In midfield, I have a good balance with seedorf playing his box to box role and blanchflower sitting.

    My defense is one of the strongest in the draft with scirea and vierchowod a complementary and fearsome duo. On the flanks I have mcgrain who will provide support to scirea and lizarazu who will be more attacking.

    Why I will win

    • My opposition's main threat is the attacking duo of eusebio and van basten, unfortunately for them my CBs are equally capable of dealing with the threat. Vierchowod was one of the quickest Cbs around and maradono described him as his toughest opponent.
    • The biggest outmatch on the pitch is probably my wingers vs his fullbacks, Jarni was a journey man player whose best club was probably betis while sagnol is decent. Boniek and Hamrin should have a lot of joy specially with lizarazu and mcgrain overlapping.
    • Vierchowod and Van Basten faced each other 11 times, in that period Van Basten only scored once despite playing for the greatest club side of all time while vierchowod was part of sampdoria.

    P-Nut/EAP

    Formation/Tactics: 5-3-2. Balanced with a slight emphasis on the counter. A solid base that allows the front 3 to do their stuff.

    Goalkeeper
    - Andoni Zubizarreta

    Consistent and efficient GK who in his prime was one of the best in the world. Intelligent organizer of the defence, his workrate and leadership will add further solidity to our defence.

    Central Defence: Paolo Montero / Albert Shesternyov / Cesar Azpilicueta

    Solid back line is marshalled by smooth brilliance of Albert Shesternyov one of the best sweepers in the world on his prime. Flanked by Paolo Montero and Cesar Azpilicueta, two rock solid no nonsense defenders both versatile to play CB and FB on their flanks, enabling them drift out if needed. All 3 are good on and off the ball with intelligent positioning to snuff out attacks. Good on the ground and in the air, they'll hold the fort for the match.

    Gary Neville on Cesar Azpilicueta - "When I watch him, he's as near to perfect as possible when it comes to defending; he's immaculate". Azpi has 3 goals and 7 assists in 2017 season, most for any Central defender!


    Width: Robert Jarni / Willy Sagnol

    Jarni and Sagnol provide the width as wingbacks. Jarni's pace and ability to beat opponents and Sagnol's crossing (esp long passes/crosses) make a perfect blend of qualities to move the ball up and into scoring positions. A good blend of pace, workrate and crossing ability...they have the capability carry the ball up the flank all game and provide brilliant crosses into the box.

    Central/Defensive Midfield: Esteban Cambiasso - Diego Simeone

    Esteban Cambiasso and Diego Simeone provide the platform for the attack to shine. More than just tackling, ball winning holding midfielders, they are complete two-way midfielders known for intelligence, strength, stamina, leadership and possess good technique, vision and passing range in addition to defensive qualities. They are also tactically versatile and capable of drifting wide if needed.

    Attack: Zinedine Zidane / Marco van Basten / Eusebio

    One of the best attacks in this draft, I reckon. All familiar names needing no introduction and considered among the greatest not just in their position but across the game overall. Perfect blend of creativeness and lethal goal scoring ability. All of the trio can create for others and/or score themselves. Be it smashing volleys, runs beating defenders, dribbling ability, headers...all three possess the full suite of skills needed to win this match!
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
  2. Aug 6, 2018
    #2

    Physiocrat Full Member

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  3. Aug 6, 2018
    #3

    P-Nut fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho

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    Our formation / tactics bit needs moving under our heading @Physiocrat
  4. Aug 6, 2018
    #4

    P-Nut fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho

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    Whilst you have the numerical advantage out wide, both of your wingers are more likely to want to come inside.

    That plays to the strengths of a 352 as I've got the LCB and RCB ready to deal with those threats. They'll constantly be wanting to come inside to a congested area.
  5. Aug 6, 2018
    #5

    MJJ Full Member

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    good luck pnut eap
  6. Aug 6, 2018
    #6

    MJJ Full Member

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    Yeah but the quality of those LCB and RCB isnt that good, other than shesternov your defense is very average-ish. I would fancy my attackers against your LCB and RCB always.
  7. Aug 6, 2018
    #7

    Physiocrat Full Member

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    That's the format I've go for the other games and it doesn't have seemed to be a problem. The idea is to have both team sheets side by side to aid visualising the line-ups
  8. Aug 6, 2018
    #8

    harms Way Staff

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    Can you put the formations on one line? @Physiocrat
    Just delete the space between them.
    Thanks!
  9. Aug 6, 2018
    #9

    Physiocrat Full Member

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    When I go to edit it there are no spaces between the formation pics.
  10. Aug 6, 2018
    #10

    harms Way Staff

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    Weird. Never mind then
  11. Aug 6, 2018
    #11

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    [​IMG]..vs..[​IMG]

    ..................................................
    MJJ...................................................vs............................................P-Nut/Edgar Allan Pillow

    @Physiocrat use this copy/paste

    You need to switch to the BB code editor, remove the spacings and just put the img tags on the same line, then you can revert to the rich text editor and it will work :)

    You can also use different type of font coloring for each team so it's even easier to separate them from glance(along with the formation text, etc)
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  12. Aug 6, 2018
    #12

    P-Nut fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho

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    I meant under our name in red, as it's currently above it and looks like the end of MJJ and RT write up
  13. Aug 6, 2018
    #13

    Physiocrat Full Member

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    Seen it now. Changed
  14. Aug 6, 2018
    #14

    Physiocrat Full Member

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    For some reason it won't let me have both image links on the same in BB Editor line so can't get them in line. I've sorted P-Nut's problem though
  15. Aug 6, 2018
    #15

    P-Nut fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho

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    Both are defensively perfect for the role. Azpiliceuta has played all across the backline and will have no problem shuttling out wide when needed.

    Be warned the spoilered is quite long, but it just highlights what a complete defender he has been for such a long time now.

    It was three years ago last month that Gary Neville and Jamie Carragher first described Cesar Azpilicueta as the Premier League's best defender. "When I watch him, he's as near to perfect as possible when it comes to defending; he's immaculate," Neville said on Monday Night Football. "You very rarely see anybody get the better of him," Carragher added. "He'd be my number one."

    It seemed a big call at the time. Azpilicueta was a largely unheralded figure in a back four which featured John Terry, Gary Cahill and Branislav Ivanovic. But having previously established himself as first-choice right-back, he was proving just as effective on the left, keeping Ashley Cole and Filipe Luis out of the team and helping Chelsea make an unbeaten start to the season.

    It had not gone unnoticed by Neville and Carragher, whose comments ring truer than ever three years and two Premier League titles later. Jose Mourinho's back four has become Antonio Conte's back three, and Chelsea's right-footed left-back is now a brilliant centre-back.

    Since August 2015, Azpilicueta has started 89 league games out of 91. Last season, he did not miss a single minute. "Last season Azpi was one of the most important players for us," said Conte in September. "In this position as a central defender, he is one of the best in the world. He is very good with and without the ball. He's a fantastic guy, he's always positive, and during the training sessions he works in a fantastic way. For a coach to have him is a dream."

    It is extraordinary that a player who had never played at centre-back just 18 months ago might now be considered as one of the best in the world in the position, but the statistics underline why you would be hard pushed to disagree with Conte.

    According to Opta, Azpilicueta has only made one error leading to an opposition shot in the last three seasons. None of the eight defenders to have started more than 10 league games for Chelsea in that time have made fewer. Even potential weaknesses have become strengths. Despite standing at just 5ft 9ins, he has won more aerial duels than any other Chelsea player since the start of last season.

    Azpilicueta's consistency is invaluable to Chelsea and so too is his leadership. Out on the pitch he can be seen offering constant instructions to Victor Moses - who has described him as one of his biggest influences since moving to right wing-back - and his senior status in the side was recognised when he was made vice-captain in the summer.

    Azpilicueta's unflappable style transmits calm in Chelsea's defence but his full-back experience means he is an attacking weapon too. Last season he contributed four assists - more than any other centre-back in the Premier League - and he is already up to five in the new campaign. Only David Silva, Kevin De Bruyne, Leroy Sane and Aaron Ramsey have provided more.

    It may seem like a statistical quirk but it is actually the result of a deliberate strategy by Chelsea. Azpilicueta does not get many chances to go on the overlap from his centre-back position, so Conte has harnessed his crossing ability from what's known as the half space, the less congested area between the flank and the centre of the pitch where he is free to launch the ball forward.

    Azpilicueta set up two goals from that zone last season, and he has been even more effective since the arrival of Alvaro Morata in the summer. The duo have already combined for five in the new campaign and four of them have come from Azpilicueta's diagonal deliveries from the inside right, with Morata's header against Manchester United perhaps the most memorable example.

    Those angled crosses require a target man who is strong in the air and knows exactly when to peel off his marker, but crucially, they also demand a level of delivery most centre-backs simply could not provide. It's why Azpilicueta has made 29 crosses this season, while Chelsea's left-sided centre-backs - Cahill, Antonio Rudiger and Andreas Christiansen - have only attempted six between them.

    It's another example of the completeness which, according to Santi Zuza, a journalist for Spanish newspaper Diario de Navarra, has its roots in his boyhood club Osasuna. Zuza was covering their youth teams during Azpilicueta's emergence more than 10 years ago, and remembers a humble teenager with the aptitude and attitude to play anywhere.

    "It might surprise people in England but Azpilicueta played as a striker in Osasuna's youth teams," Zuza tells Sky Sports. "After that he became a winger, and when he made his debut in the first team, the manager, Cuco Ziganda, saw that he could do very well as a full-back, a position which demands fit players capable of defending and attacking and making good crosses."

    Just as he would at Chelsea years later, Azpilicueta mastered each new position with ease. "He has always been a player with an enormous ability to adapt," says Zuza. "He's smart, he understands the game well and, like all players from Navarra, the region where Osasuna are from, he has a great capacity for sacrifice."

    Zuza cites Arsenal's Nacho Monreal, Bayern Munich's Javi Martinez and Newcastle's Mikel Merino as other exponents of those Navarran traits. "The region has a lot of quality players for such a small place," he adds. "It's because Osasuna do good work with their cantera but it's also because Navarran players always have special characteristics."

    No one typifies those special characteristics quite like Cesar Azpilicueta. The teenaged striker from Osasuna's academy is now a two-time title-winning defender who can do it all. And the good news for Chelsea is that he is still finding ways to improve.

    As for Montero he is another that has played both full back and centre back. With a huge reputation as an excellent destroyer I'll let the testimony to him explain for you.

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2003/may/11/sport.championsleague

    So as you can see both CBs are completely suited to playing the roles they've been tasked with here.
  16. Aug 6, 2018
    #16

    MJJ Full Member

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    I am not talking about how good of a fit they are but more about their quality.

    Jarni is a journey man leftback whose best club was betis, motero and azpi. are good players but not world class. I mean deulofeu wrecked havoc against a chelsea side playing a similar to you with azpi in a similar position, not to mention bournemouth.

    Your defense is simply not capable to stop suarez, hamrin and boniek. On the otherhand, I have one of the GOAT defenders in scirea marshalling my defense with vierchowod and mcgrain for company.
  17. Aug 6, 2018
    #17

    MJJ Full Member

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    Other than the front three, my side IsIhe tree in every other area.

    My midfield should control the match and the biggest tactical mismatch are my wingers against your fullbacks and the quality of the central defenders is not enough to cover the weakness of the fullbacks.

    Leave anyone of boniek, hamrin and suarez against any one of your defendrrs and it's only ending one way.
  18. Aug 6, 2018
    #18

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    Lizarazu/Boniek is one great workmanship and flair flank have to say :drool:

    What's Shesternyov's role here @Edgar Allan Pillow @P-Nut0712 and why is he positioned as an anchor?
  19. Aug 6, 2018
    #19

    Gio ★★★★★★★★

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    Like the Azpi pick - rate him as the finest right-back of the Premier League era and here he is well proven in that RCB gig.

    Just about to ask the same question. Is he a sweeper or man-marking Riquelme? Looks like he's in no mans land at the moment.
  20. Aug 6, 2018
    #20

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    Honestly this doesn't make sense. Cambiasso/Simeone are more than sufficient to cover anything Riquelme can offer and the midfield will be ours. On flip side, Zidane will he too hot for Blanchflower/Seedorf. The midfield is ours.

    And We have strength in numbers enabling one defender to cover whoever has the ball and other two to watch anyone who may run into space. Neither Hamrin nor Boniek will have too much space to run. And Shesternyov is more than enough to handle Suarez.

    Sagnol/Azpi and Jarni/Montero are more than capable to handle his wing threat. His primary goal threat is for Suarez to pull my defenders whilst one of Hamrin/Boniek run behind into space. The extra man evens that out.

    Good as they may be, Scirea/Vierchowod will be hard pressed to handle van Basten/Eusebio. And that's not counting Zidane!
  21. Aug 6, 2018
    #21

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    Not sure I understood it correctly. He's libero(as an extra men) here or marking Suarez?
  22. Aug 6, 2018
    #22

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    Libero. There is no man marking.
  23. Aug 6, 2018
    #23

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    I have no words. This has no meaning. Jarni's stint with Croatia in WC is well known as is his ability and pace to provide constant service to attack. This set up softens the emphasis on defence for having Montero behind and will bring out his full potential. Montero may be a limited player, but withing his role, he's just rock solid. You don't need an all GOAT defence to handle that attack.

    Individually and collectively, my defence is far more suited to handle your attack than yours to mine.

    And you conveniently ignore Zidane as opposed to Riquelme in your team!
  24. Aug 6, 2018
    #24

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    Cheers. Think it would be better to position him behind your CB duo with arrow pointing upwards. Suarez is most likely to play off his shoulder initially, having in mind that MJJ has a designated #10 in his formation.
  25. Aug 6, 2018
    #25

    MJJ Full Member

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    Sorry what? The midfield battle isnt just your two cms against my am and my two cms against your am. Blanchflower is better than simeone and seedorf is better than cambiasso.



    Riquelme dominated a better midfield than the one you are playing right now enroute to knocking cambiasso's inter out of the competition. But yeah they are more than sufficient to cover anything he can offer.
  26. Aug 6, 2018
    #26

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    After an earlier discussion on sweeper vs libero, I usually put a libero ahead and a true sweeper (like Picchi) behind. Probably to distinguish that a libero has no hesitancy to step out to take on the ball holder whereas a libero will stay behind to sweep up whatever passes through the CBs.

    Anyways, mostly semantics :lol:
  27. Aug 6, 2018
    #27

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    Yeah, that's the other option with two arrows up and down to show the dynamics. In this game however it's more likely to have him in a deeper zone than there as Suarez will play off the shoulder of the defence otherwise it might look that he's more occupied with Riquelme rather than Suarez.

    But yeah, semantics in the end. :)
  28. Aug 6, 2018
    #28

    MJJ Full Member

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    Jarni is probably the worse defender on the pitch closely followed by sagnol. Man for man your defense is far worse than mine. Given that boniek and hamrin made mockery of defenses far superior than yours, I would say that you do need atleast some world class to goat defedners to handle the attack.

    :lol: C'mon now. Montero and Azpi are more suited to handle boniek/hamrin than scirea/vierchowod is to handle eusebio and van basten? A 40 year old vierchowod kept ronaldo quiet playing for piacenza and was described by maradona his toughest opponent.

    Riquelme at his best was close to Zidane at his best in the right set up, here he has plenty of off the ball movement which he can pick out whereas zidane's options are severely limited.
  29. Aug 6, 2018
    #29

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    :lol: Now you are taking the piss!
  30. Aug 6, 2018
    #30

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    @Edgar Allan Pillow I remember a draft game where you said Cambiasso next to another b2b won't work, what's different here?
  31. Aug 6, 2018
    #31

    idmanager Banned

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    Weird seeing Shesternyov there. Riquelme is a dissapointing pick personally for me. I would really put him in the Guti class of players. Magical at times but dont really have a place in the all time context.

    Love Scirea Vierchewod against Van Basten Eusebio.

    I would expect peanut and Ellen to outscore and win here. Shesternyov has no business being there though. Quite an eye sore that in the formation picture considering Azpil was always only a wide CB and Montero would be perfect in the LCB zone. Also Simeone and Cambiasso are good enough to handle Riquelme.
  32. Aug 6, 2018
    #32

    MJJ Full Member

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    :lol: Why dont you vote for yourself instead of being sneaky?
  33. Aug 6, 2018
    #33

    MJJ Full Member

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    I could have upgraded him with somebody like fransecoli(have money left over) but I rate him very highly. At his best, he was far better than the likes of Guti, he just gets a bit underrated on here.

    Cambiasso,Veron and Figo could not handle him with senna so I will have to disagree with that.
  34. Aug 6, 2018
    #34

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    Really, strange. I don't recall that! I've always had a soft spot for him and this is the 3rd time, I'm picking him or so :lol:
  35. Aug 6, 2018
    #35

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    Why, mate? He's a libero and is playing exactly that role here. Would it be weird seeing Baresi or Figueroa there? MJJ has good wingers and he's the extra man having a free role to even things out.
  36. Aug 6, 2018
    #36

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    He is a good player, no doubt. But putting him in same class as Zidane is just plain wrong. He was never as consistent or dominmated a top league or tournament as Zidane.

    Seedorf was never a DM. Even at Milan, he was more of a CM in a very specific formation. Blanchflower was also a DLP type halfback who was known more for his ability to dictate play.

    A Seedorf/Blanchflower as a DM duo is not really a optimal combination imo if your intention is to shield the defence . Against Zidane, it'll be exploited ruthlessly.
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  37. Aug 6, 2018
    #37

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    He's more of a sweeper rather than libero to be fair. Equally good as a stopper. Stylistically I'd describe him as proactive sweeper, very good man marker, who didn't have the ability on the ball like Baresi and Figueroa, neither the appetite for surging into midfield.
  38. Aug 6, 2018
    #38

    idmanager Banned

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    Depends really on the type of CBs you have and the formation you are facing. Against a 4-2-3-1, his average position wont be highest there. I have already expressed my thoughts on why your other CBs would prefer him being in the defense more often that not.
  39. Aug 6, 2018
    #39

    idmanager Banned

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    I think its difficult to call someone so unreliable like him underrated or overrated.

    On his day, he could look like Zidane as you said. But so could Recoba and Guti. I dont really rate them kind very high. Not to say al
    3 belong to the same tier.

    I will reconsider my vote eitherways tomorrow as it looks too close. Gud luck.
  40. Aug 6, 2018
    #40

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    I'd say that fits in proper with the role I described for him. He has no playmaking or attacking contributions to make. He's there for his defensive attributes only.

    Maybe I'll change for formation picture to bring this out clearer as you said before.