Pakistan

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Edgar Allan Pillow, Apr 2, 2014.

  1. Apr 2, 2014
    #1

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers

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    What the hell is happening to that country? Are they still a 'democracy' ? They seem to be transforming into a hardcore religios nation with human rights etc declining rapidly.

    Nuclear power too!

    Law not being enforced is one thing. courts actively supporting is completely different!
    Very concerning, I should say.
  2. Apr 5, 2014
    #2

    Madthinker Full Member

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  3. Apr 7, 2014
    #3

    sajeev Full Member

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  4. Apr 7, 2014
    #4

    Twigg Not Twigginator

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  5. Apr 7, 2014
    #5

    coolredwine lameredboots

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  6. Apr 7, 2014
    #6

    sajeev Full Member

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  7. Apr 7, 2014
    #7

    Madthinker Full Member

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    Where do you work that blocks the BBC, but not Redcafe?

    Tbf the story isn't quite on the same lines as the OP - it seems to be one assistant superintendent being an idiot, rather than anything at a high level.
  8. Apr 7, 2014
    #8

    MJJ Full Member City Lover

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    :lol: I wonder how the baby pleaded. Crying=not guilty?
  9. Apr 7, 2014
    #9

    Red Defence Full Member

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    It's a terrible state of affairs for the poor man who has been sentenced to death but this country really needs to get a grip of itself. There just is no logic to some of their laws or sentences.

    Going out on a limb here, but does it really matter if someone chooses to defame the prophet. Just ignore them and leave it at that. If it's a serious enough crime in the eyes of the prophet himself then I assume he will use the power he has to deal with it directly from "up above".

    Meanwhile the government should be trying to get it's law-making officials to act in a more rational and logical manner. They have a country to run and I'm sure they have far more pressing crimes against humanity that need dealing with first.

    (Sorry if this offends anyone sensibilities...it wasn't intended to).
  10. Apr 7, 2014
    #10

    JustAFan The Adebayo Akinfenwa of football photoshoppers

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    Upon cross-examination the baby spit up on the prosecutor then shit itself.
  11. Apr 7, 2014
    #11

    Sir Matt Blue Devil

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    Woah, woah, woah. Let's not be reasonable.
  12. Apr 7, 2014
    #12

    MJJ Full Member City Lover

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    Yes. It is.
  13. Apr 8, 2014
    #13

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers

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    I really don't understand why muslims charge one another of blasphemy.
  14. Apr 8, 2014
    #14

    Dante Bang Average but can post Blindfolded for 15 secs

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    It's the Muslim equivalent of Christian witch trials: a convenient way to get an enemy in shit whilst all and sundry trip over themselves to prove they're holier than thou. It wouldn't happen if the judiciary wasn't so corrupt.
  15. Apr 8, 2014
    #15

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته Staff

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    The laws are in place to protect the citizens than the Prophet. In an ultra religious country if people given free reign to defame someone regarded so highly would cause civil riots, damage to religious infrastructure and bloodshed. The issue of riots and bloodshed would be even more severe if those defaming comes from a minority religion in that particular country.
  16. Apr 8, 2014
    #16

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته Staff

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    The judiciary needs to be seen to be acting tough on these matters as a deterrent. As an Indian you should understand more than anyone how fragile these issues are in these parts of the world. Imagine the carnage if a Muslim was to defame a statue of a revered Hindu God in public? In Gujarat it's against the law to slaughter cows for consumption to protect the sensibilities of the majority Hindu population, and people are actually prosecuted for breaking this law.
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  17. Apr 8, 2014
    #17

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers

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    Understand that Sults, but OP was on my opinion that the country is imploding internally, not on intra-religious conflicts. If you look at the OP, both death penalty accused were muslims too (by their names, I presume). The take I got from those articles and my colleagues from there is that that country is becoming too radical even for 'normal' muslims (for lack of a better word). The radical elements are gaining momentum and blasphemy laws used against anyone who does not show explicit support! I think the situation will deteriorate even without other countries/religions intervention.
  18. Apr 8, 2014
    #18

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته Staff

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    There's no doubt Pakistan are at crossroads at present. It's always been particularly a particularly volatile nation since the partition (which should never have happened). Pakistan have also been in an unfortunate situation because they are bordering Afghanistan and Iran. The refugee problem over the last decade has seen a few million political and religious refugees flood into Pakistan causing more problems to an already difficult situation.

    Although a lot is made of these blasphemy cases nothing much ever comes out of these. They're generally local disputes between individuals and are then used as a tool for revenge. I would guess the people accused are from a minority Muslim sect called the Qadianis regarded as heretics in Pakistan.
  19. Apr 10, 2014
    #19

    JustAFan The Adebayo Akinfenwa of football photoshoppers

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    Sounds perfectly sane.
  20. Apr 10, 2014
    #20

    Eboue nasty little twerp Scouse Lover

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    So the laws prevent people from saying mean things because another group of people might get violent?

    Shouldn't the law be focused on people committing violence?
  21. Apr 10, 2014
    #21

    Sir Matt Blue Devil

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    Essentially, Pakistan is happy to kill a relatively small number of people for their words to keep the majority from rioting. The rights of the minority be damned. The larger issue is that a sizable part of the Pakistani population are stuck several centuries in the past. The government should be more worried about those who riot than those who speak. The fault lies with them for being hyper-sensitive children.
  22. Apr 10, 2014
    #22

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته Staff

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    You'll find hardly anyone has ever been killed for blasphemy.

    There are already laws in place for rioters.

    There are laws against defamation, slander, restrictions on freedom of speech, libel, and censorship in all Western nations. We really need to look closer to our own backyards before calling others out.
  23. Apr 10, 2014
    #23

    Eboue nasty little twerp Scouse Lover

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    You are right there are restrictions in western nations. We have hate crime laws in the US and even the UK had less than liberal free speech laws. But that is several orders of magnitude off what we are seeing in Pakistan.
  24. Apr 10, 2014
    #24

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته Staff

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    That's because Pakistan was basically found on religious ideology, and laws.

    All Western nations are now based on secular laws. Just a few decades back we in the West would also have had serious repercussions for blaspheming against religion. A few minutes from where I live in the UK we had witch trials, girls locked up in mental institutions for life just for getting pregnant out of wedlock and accused of being possessed.

    Lets not judge others by our standards. Change takes time.
  25. Apr 10, 2014
    #25

    Eboue nasty little twerp Scouse Lover

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    But we can encourage change by pointing out where it needs to happen.
  26. Apr 10, 2014
    #26

    Dante Bang Average but can post Blindfolded for 15 secs

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    Part of the atavism in Pakistani culture is a reaction to what the natives view as Western interference in traditional values.
  27. Apr 10, 2014
    #27

    Dante Bang Average but can post Blindfolded for 15 secs

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    It's easy to espouse Western liberal values from a Western liberal country, but Pakistan is so far from that it's unreal.

    Any government's first duty is to the stability of the nation. Pakistan is having a hard enough time maintaining that, let alone attempting to enforce fair and just social laws. That's where eduction is supposed to come in and, unfortunately, much of that is financed by Saudi Wahabists.
  28. Apr 10, 2014
    #28

    Sir Matt Blue Devil

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    People are sentenced to death for it. That, whether or not they are executed, is deplorable. What's the government going to do with those people when there's a chance they'll be killed for commuting or annulling sentences as has happened previously?

    In the US, there are quite narrow limitations on freedom of speech. There are restrictions on speech that would result in immediate violence or lawless action. Blasphemous, racist, or otherwise offensive speech are legal. Libel is nearly irrelevant for public figures with the burden being very high for the complainant.

    If we are not to judge them by our standards, should we condemn them when someone shoot small children for wanting an education? They were just defending their delicate sensibilities when they shot Malala Yousafazi in the head. Coddling them will not lead to cultural development.
  29. Apr 10, 2014
    #29

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته Staff

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    Racism is legal in USA? That's shocking if true!

    No one is defending the shooting of Malala.
  30. Apr 10, 2014
    #30

    Eboue nasty little twerp Scouse Lover

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    Yes it's legal. There shouldn't be laws against thoughts, no matter how despicable they are.
  31. Apr 10, 2014
    #31

    Sir Matt Blue Devil

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    Ideas, no matter how despicable, aren't illegal. Nor is the speech expressing them. While there are a number of radical racist groups in the US, they are effectively powerless. Trying to stamp out their beliefs would only encourage them. I found out recently that there is a Klan chapter within 50-100 miles of where I live, but I have never heard about it in 20+ years because they don't do anything.

    I'm not saying that you were, but we can't set aside our societal standards because their are different. There is no will within Pakistan to change. If anything, there's a desire to regress to previous social norms.
  32. Apr 10, 2014
    #32

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته Staff

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    I'm genuinely shocked how you guys are excusing freedom of speech or thought as an excuse to use racist language. Personally it's despicable not having a law against racism.
  33. Apr 10, 2014
    #33

    Eboue nasty little twerp Scouse Lover

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    Who decides what qualifies? The problem with laws against speech and thoughts is that right now, we might agree with what a government want a to restrict. But there will come a time where that isn't the case.
  34. Apr 10, 2014
    #34

    Zarlak my face causes global warming

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    To be fair Sultan, I do think that sentencing someone to death for saying mean things is a lot worse than allowing mean things to be said.

    Having vile thoughts isn't illegal. People are entitled to them, however cretinous it makes them.
  35. Apr 10, 2014
    #35

    Sir Matt Blue Devil

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    :confused: We are not excusing it. It's just not illegal. Racism is quite obviously despicable, but that doesn't mean it can be legislated out of existence. Many racist actions are illegal, but how would you go about making being a racist illegal? Thought police? If you make racist speech illegal, what else would you include? There is no right not to be offended.
  36. Apr 10, 2014
    #36

    JustAFan The Adebayo Akinfenwa of football photoshoppers

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    There are plenty of laws against racism in the US, they have not made racism go away but many of them have helped improve the situation, still a long way to go. People are able to seek restitution when they have been victims of racism (ie denied a job, schooling, etc). We have hate crimes laws, so that should say some KKK guys decide to lynch someone in part or only because of that persons race, they can have additional charges and stiffer sentencing brought against them. The courts, legislature and society in the US have spent a couple of centuries and are still trying to define where the line to free speech ends. It is not easy to balance everyone's rights. Even the right to be a complete ignorant idiot.

    However, in the delicate balance that is maintained with regards to freedom of speech, offensive statements are at times protected. Whether we like it or not.
  37. Apr 10, 2014
    #37

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته Staff

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  38. Apr 10, 2014
    #38

    Eboue nasty little twerp Scouse Lover

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    Hate crime laws are prosecuting people for thoughts.
  39. Apr 10, 2014
    #39

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته Staff

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    :confused:

    Why would I, or any sane person would ever think otherwise?
  40. Apr 10, 2014
    #40

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته Staff

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    I'm confused - we maybe at cross purposes with legal terms. I'm no lawyer, but I understand a thought can never be prosecuted. Below is a link what I'm talking about.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/advice/factfile_az/racism