Patrice Evra....

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Devil_forever, Sep 27, 2008.

  1. May 7, 2012

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

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    He's not been good at all. He's been our worst defender and he's not doing enough in attack to justify it. Players love to play against him. He can't handle one on ones anymore and he's out of position a lot. I think he's been one of our most consistently poor performers this season.

    It's nice though that you decided to interpret my point differently still when I explained to you in further detail what I meant.
    Again. Evra used to be a top 5 left back in the world. That was 2-3 seasons ago. And by that I meant you could compare him to every left back and come to the conclusion that he's better than all of the except 2-4 players. No doubt. Now when you compare him to other players you don't reach these numbers. That goes for Cashley as well which you still seem to rate highly. He's been benched a few times this season because he's been poor. Evra should have too.
    So that's my point. You can't put him in the top 5 bracket anymore.

    You ask who is? I'd say Vidic, Carrick, Nani, Valencia and Rooney. In terms of potential we have Welbeck and Smalling and arguably Cleverley, Jones, Hernandez and Rafael who are big in their respective positions. If it weren't for Scholes' legs I'd put him in there 2. I think he's among the best midfielders in the league this season.

    Fact is that Evra used to be a top 5 player but now when you look at other teams playing you think that they wouldn't do any better necessarily if you replaced their left back with Evra.

    I'm not saying replace him. That's pretty hard to do. There aren't many great left backs in the world. This season Marcelo and Albin and Alaba have stood out from what I've seen. Evra's biggest strength is supporting the winger. Marcelo is much better at that. He's a brilliant attacker. He's a better dribbler, passer and crosser than Evra. Got a better first touch as well and has better technique. That's a high praise because Evra's got great technique and he's a very good dribbler.

    Valencia and Bayern both have a left side that's equally as strong as ours, if not better. The Mathieu-Albin and Alaba-Ribery combos are very strong. Real Madrid have Marcelo and Ronaldo so that's a no brainer.
    Dortmund have Schmelzer. He's a good full back. Schalke's Fuch's has a better end product.

    Most top teams now have young full backs that are inexperienced compared to Evra. As such he should stand out and be head over shoulders. But he isn't. And when we discuss who's been our best player he's not close to being mentioned yet he's always playing. Carrick, Rooney, Valencia, Scholes, Evans. That's our top 5 performers this season. Yet we've conceded less goals this season compared to the last with no Vidic and a lot of issues at the back with defense and goalkeeper.
  2. May 7, 2012

    Rossa Full Member

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    The decline of Evra is greatly exaggerated. He looked very shaky and very slow for a few matches, but lately his fitness seems improved, and his defending has improved accordingly. However, Evra is basically the only fullback who is constantly criticised when a winger puts a cross in. As I said in a previous post, Clichy was great against us, but we still put in a ridiculous amount of crosses from our right side; better quality on crosses and better movement in the box could very well have ended in a goal - Clichy was still good.

    To those who say there are better left backs in the PL, who are they then? I would argue that Cashley has been good these last few months, but was atrocious for some time in the autumn. Enrique was good for the first couple of months but has been skinned more in the last few months than Evra has in his life, plus his link-up play isn't close to that of Evra's! It is plain ridiculous to think Baines is better than Evra.

    The problem is that most who post that Alaba, Marcelo etc are better defenders than Evra have only seen glimpses and highlights. I agree that Marcelo was brilliant against Robben, as was Evra last time they met. However, Marcelo is also very prone to mistakes defensively, and to say he is a better dribbler than Evra is arguable at best. He is most likely faster than Evra now though.
  3. May 7, 2012

    Cheesy Full Member

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    I don't particularly agree with that. It's closer than it was last season where you'd say it was mainly poor performances, but I still think that his bad ones have probably outnumbered his good ones which I feel are too few and far between.
  4. May 7, 2012

    Carl has permanently erect nipples

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    He's still the best left back in the league and most of the criticism aimed at him this season has been unfair.

    We desperately need another left back though to challenge him. He plays too many games for the amount of running he gets through really.
  5. May 7, 2012

    Cheesy Full Member

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    He's definitely not the best left back in the league. If he'd had one off season then you'd have a point, but he's been in poor form for two now. I don't see how someone can have two bad seasons and still be considered the best left back in the league. Even if it's this league where the quality of left backs is quite poor, he's not the best in the league.
  6. May 7, 2012

    Carl has permanently erect nipples

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    Because he hasn't had 2 bad seasons. He's had bad seasons compared with his previous form but they have been a million miles away from being actual poor seasons. He wouldn't play week in week out if he was as poor as some of you lot like to make out.

    Which left backs have been better than him then? Do not say Baines. Do not say Baines!
  7. May 7, 2012

    ghaliboy Snitches on Tom Hagen

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    I cannot agree that he is the best left back in the league. I think he's been slightly underrated by most but definitely not anything to write home about.

    What I will say is the benefit a natural left sided player he could have built a rapport with this season would have been interesting. I do think that the right footers we have slightly skew our whole system and I am often seeing Evra in no mans land out wide having the ball sprayed at him and nobody in front of him because the righty has tucked in. I have been watching a few games and a lot of times he goes forward a right footed winger has had to pull up and come around the back of him (effectively cutting off any decent movement forward from Evra) being the angled ball cannot be played to him.

    Having said that he should have scored at Everton and some of his crossing this season has just been utterly dire. Have a fecking big rest over summer Patty. Don't play in the Euro's mate.. Let someone deputise for you for 15 or so games at the start of next year and just come back fresh. You look beat..
  8. May 7, 2012

    Cheesy Full Member

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    Well what else do you want me to say? Baines has been playing better than him. I'd have said Enrique categorically as well if it wasn't for his slump in the 2nd half of this season. Cashley has equally been poor for a couple of years but probably hasn't been much worse than Evra in all honesty.

    2010/2011 was a poor season for him whatever way you look at it. Nevermind previous season and how good he was; it was a poor season. He's been better this season, but to be honest, he's still not been particularly good overall. If he was playing for Man City you'd probably be slating him for how he's been playing.
  9. May 7, 2012

    Carl has permanently erect nipples

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    Baines is such an overated player. I'm not saying he isn't a good player, because he is. But I'd take Evra all day long. Perhaps it will take Baines moving to a big club to highlight that he really isn't all that before people will start to take any notice. If he was as exposed as Evra often is he'd be made to look foolish.

    As for Cole, during the first half of this season he wasn't even in the top 10 left backs in the league. fecking awful he was. He's finishing the season strongly though which bodes well for England.
  10. May 7, 2012

    kps88 Full Member

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    Jose Enrique has looked excellent for Liverpool everytime I've watched him play. And that's no mean feat considering the shit he's surrounded by.

    Even Clichy has done very well once he was given a run in the team ahead of Kolarov.
  11. May 7, 2012

    Carl has permanently erect nipples

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    You haven't watched them a lot then?

    He's been mr consistant for them I'd say. Nothing special just producing consistant decent performances. He's had a bit of a slump lately though.
  12. May 7, 2012

    kps88 Full Member

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    Opposite of Evra then eh? I'd take a Mr. Consistant over someone who could cost us goals. A left back's main job should be to provide defensive stability.
  13. May 7, 2012

    Rossa Full Member

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    Baines is nowhere near Evra's level. First of all, he lacks pace. He is often found trailing behind quick wingers. Also, when he makes mistakes then that is OK as he "only" plays for Everton, whereas Evra who plays for United cannot make mistakes in order to escape criticism.

    Enrique: Not even proper LFC supporters think he is that good - so the fact that some on this forum praise him tells me that there is little knowledge any some highlight reels going through their heads. He has been very poor since November thereabouts.

    Ekotto: Good going forward, not as good as Evra though, and makes the silliest of mistakes defensively.

    $$$: Has been good in some matches, but overall this season he has been no better than Evra - assists more, but his drive forward is nowhere near as prolific as Evra's.

    Clichy: Very quick, like Evra of old, and has provided a couple of very nice assists recently. However, I would not want Clichy on my team ahead of Evra at this stage - his defending is at least no better and he doesn't drive the team forward like Evra does.

    Summing up: Evra is underrated on here and the amount of criticism he gets baffles me. One argument against him in the Swansea match is that Dyer was allowed a lot of space - of course he was; Evra was blazing forwards in attack, he is only one person! His tracking back was immense yesterday! Every match he works his ass off! There has been some poor defending, but most modern fullbacks do that from time to time as they are so attacking, or you could have Abidal...
  14. May 7, 2012

    Rossa Full Member

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    Really? So when Ferguson considers Evra a great contributor in our attack, one of our main attacking threats, you would rather limit him to a decent defensive left back?

    Enrique has been very average most of the season bar the first few matches. Lately, he has been prone to many mistakes also - much more so than Evra! Watch matches, not highlights!
  15. May 7, 2012

    Feed Me I'm hungry

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    Baines takes set pieces - its skews perceptions of his overall ability, which is nowhere near that of Evra.

    That said, Evra is the clear weak link in our back line. As an attacking force, he's terrific, but he is routinely beaten in one on one situations.
  16. May 7, 2012

    kps88 Full Member

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    Its besides the point how Evra compares with other left backs in the league. Bottom line is our left flank is constantly targeted by the opposition because they know it is a weakness. Why should we just accept that we're going to get overrun and skinned on that flank a few times per game? Nothing wrong with wanting to improve our squad.

    Paul Parker does the punditry here before United games and he says the same thing before every game. He knows a thing or two about being a full back.
  17. May 7, 2012

    Carl has permanently erect nipples

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    If that really was the "main job" of a full back at a club like United then we wouldn't have signed Evra in the first place and we certainly wouldn't entertain the thought of playing Rafael at right back!

    We demand much more from our full backs, often to the slight detriment to "defensive stability" in fact. Heck, otherwise we'd have simply kept O'Shea wouldn't we?
  18. May 7, 2012

    Carl has permanently erect nipples

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    Ummmm.... this.
  19. May 7, 2012

    Rossa Full Member

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    He didn't say anything about Carrick being brilliant in preventing any play at that right side, did he? Carrick intercepts pretty much everything that comes down that right side, whereas the left side is occupied by the defensive geniuses of Scholes and Giggs! That is easily rectified by their attacking prowess, but you catch my drift.
  20. May 7, 2012

    Feed Me I'm hungry

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    Spot on. There's no point in having, relatively, one of the best left backs in the league when the standard across the board is so poor.

    I don't know whether Evra's drop in the defensive side of his game can be ironed out - if not, we need to replace him, not buy a back up.
  21. May 7, 2012

    Carl has permanently erect nipples

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    Yeh he's been poor lately. No one is denying that (I don't think). But look at how many games we rely on him to play.

    I honestly think we'd see him back to his best if we sign another left back to take some of the pressure off him and also give us an opportunity to rest him from time to time.
  22. May 7, 2012

    kps88 Full Member

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    That's a fair point, its unfair on Evra in games where he's got Giggs playing ahead of him. But if Fergie is planning on doing this then it makes it even more important that we have someone at left back who can defend very well in 1v1 situations, something Evra isn't very good at anymore. He's missing Vidic's presence too on that left hand side.
  23. May 7, 2012

    Feed Me I'm hungry

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    Rest could be an issue for Evra.

    I'm only guessing, but I'd suggest that his appearance profile would indicate that he's never played less than 50 matches for us in a season? Then we factor in that he has had international involvements in that time too. Perhaps that's what has caused him to lose his edge.

    Fabio staying fit would have been an opportunity to give Evra more rests, but it's never materialised.

    All that said, I'd have expected his attacking game to suffer if the issue was fatigue - he'd have stopped making such effective and surging attacking runs.

    In the last two seasons, he's been skinned by his winger with alarming regularity. Perhaps it was always this way, but he's just lost his yard of recovery pace? If that's the case, he's not getting it back, which means he either has to adapt and improve his initial defensive play, or he's going to have to be replaced.
  24. May 7, 2012

    Rossa Full Member

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    It is unfair on Evra, but it is what it is and he has to play as there are no better defensive options on the left side; you could play Evans, but any dynamic presence on the left side would go missing. Remember when we played Fletcher alongside Carrick - how often didn't we see Fletcher blazing down to help out Evra in defense?

    The problem is that every fullback will concede crosses into the box; it is therefore the center backs who have to clear that mess up - as I said, Clichy was great against us but we crossed numerous crosses into the box from our right side. With Vidic gone, we have lost quite a bit of presence in the box in the air.

    To say that everything is down to Evra being weak defensively is extremly simplified, and a pundit who claims that this is so is no more than a muppet, probably a green one, frog like!

    One more summing up: Our left side is exposed defensively because:

    Evra has lost a bit of pace and struggles to make up for it atm - although I see improvements in the latter stages of this season.

    Evra gets very little support from our CMs as opposed to whoever is playing right back.

    Vidic used to win every cross anyhow, but that doesn't happen anymore, so crosses are more exposed now than before.
  25. May 7, 2012

    Eyepopper Lowering the tone since 2006

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    I don't think he's anywhere near solid enough in defence and seeing rio switched to LCB sort of backs that up. If he's not getting caught out of position he's getting skinned.

    As for going forward, he's a great dribbler but his end product is generally awful.

    I love Evra, a few years back he was the best LB in the world IMO but he's clearly went backwards over the past two years, either due to age or too many games.
  26. May 7, 2012

    kouroux Full Member

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    Cole is by far the best LB in the PL.
  27. May 7, 2012

    Annihilate Now! ...or later, I'm not fussy

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    I wouldn't say "by far" but regardless... considering Cole's form this season, I would say the above statement is more a commentary on the standard of Left Backs in this country, then it is on the ability of Cole himself.
  28. May 7, 2012

    Ole's_toe_poke Ole_Aged_Slow_Poke

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    Cole was a bit shit till January. But since then he's been in great form. Much like Chelsea as a whole.
  29. May 7, 2012

    Carl has permanently erect nipples

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    You're surely not basing this on form this season? Whilst AVB was in charge he was fecking shit. Truly truly awful. He looked like he didn't give a shit too. Poor attitude.
  30. May 7, 2012

    manusteve Full Member

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    Cole actually defends with a degree of reliability. Evra has been suspect for longer than the current season - I'd rather he defended properly than bomb forward all the time and not get back when the attack breaks up...
  31. May 7, 2012

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    That's just it though. He's blatantly not gone backwards. Even his harshest critic would agree he's been better this season than last. How is that going backwards?
  32. May 7, 2012

    Rossa Full Member

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    The harshest critics only repeat what the poster above wrote, so no point in discussing tbh.

    Evra has had his ups and downs, but overall he has been pretty good this season. But when people talk about Bale not producing enough goals they highlight the chances he creates and all hail him for that. When it comes to Evra, we criticise him for creating all those chances but not actually assisting... Backwards?
  33. May 7, 2012

    Starkie_1 Full Member

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    Best left back in the league?! feck me. Living in 2008?

    Going forward, he is very important to our game, in that he drives forward running into space, creating space for others and raising the tempo. Like others have said, this season he has been better than last year but that doesn't say much. Defensively he is absolutely shocking. Call it laziness, complacency or just being a thick twat, the amount of times he just jogs back into positions when an attack is being played down the right hand side or not spotting an overlap has been astounding for a player of his experience.
  34. May 7, 2012

    Eyepopper Lowering the tone since 2006

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    I'm by no means his harshest critic, I like Evra, he's a great player. As for not recognising his role in creating chances, I'd say everyone does, but he's a defender, and its in defence he's often caught out.

    He's not the player he was in 2008, his form may have gone up and down since then but ultimately he's gone backwards from his best. Defensively he's too often at fault, he's good going forward but his end product isn't consistent. Opposition teams get far too much freedom down our left, and Evra gets caught out of position far too often, and this season has been no different.

    Am I saying sell/shoot him? No.... but IMO we do need someone to compete for the spot and with an eye on the future.
  35. May 7, 2012

    gulli_G Full Member

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    I think Evra has been burnt out for a couple of seasons post world cup, even Fergie said he is captain as he plays every game and is hardly injured, sometimes the break from an injury can be welcome to recharge the batteries and reflect, Evra has played almost non-stop (even tournaments in the summer). he needs regular competition, he has no challenge to improve, and has become almost a liability, defensivley, attacking wise, he is one of the best at linking up with the winger and rooney. in a 3-5-2 he could play very good as a wingback, so could rafael, but this requires a lot of discipline.

    All in all i hope we get a LB and RB this summer, as we should be not losing big matches from mistakes from our fullbacks (Barca, Bilbao and a few others come to mind)
  36. May 7, 2012

    Lawman Full Member

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    Although I think he is being very harsh I think he is meaning the first few seasons performance levels and now to be fair Pogue. I agree with the fact Evra's levels have dropped in this time as he was awesome a few years back but he's still one of the top left backs in the league easily and in no way does he need replaced out right. A bit of competition would be good though some one who is going to come in and play and challenge for his jersey would be useful as if Evra got injured and with the back up we have now (Fabio) I think people would then realise what a good job Evra does for us! A case of you don't realise what you had until its not available.
  37. May 7, 2012

    kouroux Full Member

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    Yes and in general the full back position doesn't many great players in Europe
  38. May 7, 2012

    johnmufc Banned

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    Some people are scared to criticise Evra, just like Fergie is scared to drop him. Giving him the captaincy ahead of Ferdinand has been a disaster.

    It's not fair how Fergie has treated Fábio, he is a very talented player and should be starting many more games. Evra is finished.
  39. May 7, 2012

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

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    It's not even the fact that he gets caught out a lot that bugs me. I can accept that since a part of his job is going forward. He's just so poor when in line with the defense and actually doing some defending. When I see a winger coming at him I don't expect Evra to win the ball. Against City Nasri didn't even seem to pay attention to Evra. Evra never hindered him in the slightest. Yesterday Dyer was all over the place.

    Everytime we play against a team who has a man on the right that attacks full backs I'm worried. I'm never worried about that with the left side however.
    When we play a team that doesn't have a player like that on the right I'm got no worries for Evra.
  40. May 7, 2012

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Yup. Agree with all of that.

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