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Paucity of great centre midfielders today

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Polaroid, Jun 24, 2011.

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  1. Jun 24, 2011
    #1

    Polaroid Banned

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    At the turn of the millennium in 2000, there were

    Zidane
    Deschamps
    Davids
    Nedved
    Scholes
    Keane
    Veron
    Effenberg
    Redondo
    Rui Costa
    Guardiola
    Seedorf
    Vieira

    today the comparable ones are only
    Xavi
    Iniesta
    Fabregas
    Sneijder
    Alonso
  2. Jun 24, 2011
    #2

    Rowem gently, down the stream

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    Schweinsteiger looked top notch at the WC last summer. I don't think Alonso is in the top bracket myself though. Mascherano and Essien in terms of powerful/defensive mids could be an option. At a stretch, Yaya Toure perhaps.

    I agree with the premise of the thread though.
  3. Jun 24, 2011
    #3

    gulli_G Full Member

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    bang on, nowadays we seem to have surplus of good CB's (with us having had more than our fairshare: Pique, Vidic, Rio, Jones, Smalling), in zidanes time only CB's stood out, Stam,Nesta, Maldini etc.

    hope this area gets sorted soon, as it is the most important part of the team
  4. Jun 24, 2011
    #4

    Ish Lights on for Luke

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    If you are including Zidane, Nedved and Rui Costa as CM's then why not include the likes of Ozil in today's times? But I agree with your general consensus that there were much more quality about those times, especially the Redondo, Effenberg, Keane, Vieira type characters :drool:

    Also, in which section will you put the likes of Gattusso, Riquelme and Pirlo? or were they mid-2000's?

    I also think the key is that unforutnately at the turn 2010, alot of the big hitters from the 2000's are entering the twilight of their careers - Gerrard, Lampard, Cambiasso...so what I am saying in conclusion is that I am now confused if I agree or disagree with you :lol:
  5. Jun 24, 2011
    #5

    TheHorse'sMouth Full Member

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    Rui Costa was more of a trequartista than a CM. Fantastic player though, enjoyed watching him during his Fiorentina days. There are lot of potential great CM's coming up (the likes of Sahin), but I think the role is very specialised and needs a great deal of experience to be performed properly. That's why the likes of Wilshere and M'Vila who show such promise and maturity in that position at young ages look absolutely fantastic.
  6. Jun 24, 2011
    #6

    Randall Flagg Worst of the best

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    Gerrard and Lampard at their peaks certainly deserve to be in there
  7. Jun 24, 2011
    #7

    KM I’m afraid I just blue myself Staff

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    Gerrard reached his peak when he played on the right hand side of the midfield or in the position behind the striker(08-09). Credit to Rafa for finding his best position.
  8. Jun 24, 2011
    #8

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    I'd say Gerrard's peak for Liverpool was when they won the Champion's League and FA Cup in consecutive seasons, with him playing in central midfield. Unfortunately for Liverpool, he was surrounded by utter donkeys at the time.
  9. Jun 24, 2011
    #9

    wr8_utd :'(

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    Half a decade on and nothing has changed.
  10. Jun 24, 2011
    #10

    Randall Flagg Worst of the best

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    Makelele and Petit should be on the old list.

    Mascherano (he was excellent in midfield for Liverpool) and Busquets should be on the list of today
  11. Jun 24, 2011
    #11

    TheHorse'sMouth Full Member

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    His positional changes under Benitez were mind-boggling. Here you had a guy who had the potential to become a dominant CM, and instead of playing him there you play him everywhere else. Gerrard playing as a pure CM as he was coached to play under Houllier could have been absolutely fantastic..then Benitez came, fecked him around for a while until he played behind Torres.
  12. Jun 24, 2011
    #12

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    Why isn't Carrick on the modern day list?
  13. Jun 24, 2011
    #13

    peterstorey Specialist In Failure

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    Most of the time he played on the right of the 4231 in those seasons.
  14. Jun 24, 2011
    #14

    Randall Flagg Worst of the best

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    Becuase he is not as good as any of the ones mentioned
  15. Jun 24, 2011
    #15

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Really? That's not how I remember it. I thought the whole right wing experiment came the season after than and he only started playing in the hole after they signed Torres?

    He was definitely playing in central midfield in both of their cup finals. At least, I'm almost certain he was anyway.
  16. Jun 24, 2011
    #16

    Ekeke Full Member

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    By 2000 werent most of these in the prime of their career?

    Give Banega and Sahin another year, Wilshire maybe 2 and they'll be on your list and wont even be in their prime
  17. Jun 24, 2011
    #17

    peterstorey Specialist In Failure

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    As I remember it (and it does seem about 20 years ago). Benitez moved Gerad out of CM pretty much right away playing Sissoko, Alonso and Hamman.
  18. Jun 24, 2011
    #18

    Brwned Have you ever been in love before?

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    Was playing in the middle until half-time of the CL with them losing 3-0, and then Hamann came on and I think he moved out wide right? Then right back later in the game.

    He definitely played from the right from the start in the cup final v West Ham.
  19. Jun 24, 2011
    #19

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Hmm... I'm out-numbered here, I guess I must be wrong. Hate that :(
  20. Jun 24, 2011
    #20

    Trigg aka Trippin_Stoned

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    Might explain one of the reasons we haven't signed a central midfielder when everyone is calling out for one.
  21. Jun 24, 2011
    #21

    ::sonny:: Full Member

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    And for this, if you want a decent/good one you have to spend at least 30M
  22. Jun 24, 2011
    #22

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

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    I'd probably argue that the quality of top-level centre-half through the 1990s and up till around 2000 hasn't been met since. In 2000 you had the three you mentioned plus Cannavaro, Thuram (equally at home at centre-half), Gamarra, Ayala, Desailly (on the wane but still a force), Campbell and so forth. There are a number of emerging defensive talents though - Hummels, Pique, Smalling - who may rectify that in the years to come.
  23. Jun 24, 2011
    #23

    Ekeke Full Member

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    How?

    Does a player have to be on this list to be better than what we have?
  24. Jun 24, 2011
    #24

    B20 HALA MADRID!

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    Gerrard mostly played central midfield in Benitez' first season. Second one where he won pfa player of the year and the FA Cup final singlehandedly he played half the season in central midfield and half the season on the right of midfield.

    This caused a lot of people to go into idiot overdrive about 'having found his best position/Gerrard belongs in central midfield', but in fact he scored more goals from central midfield that year than he did from the right though many were raving about his performances from the right.

    We've started pretty much every season under benitez with the basic premise that Gerrard is a central midfielder.

    But actually, I think the whole debate is a much ado about nothing. He's a great central midfielder, great rightsided midfielder and a great player in the hole. He's won player of the year in all these positions. The main reason he has been moved around is because Gerrard will be great no matter where you play him and it then becomes a question of: "do we play him in central midfield and partner crouch with Torres or do we play him behind Torres and partner Mascherano with Alonso?" This is by far the most important reason for the changes. The nonsense about his best position is basically just so much ado about nothing. I think the last time we saw his peak for an extended run was in 2008/2009. Everyone was raving about Alonso's performances but in fact Gerrard was still our best player that year. As he usually is and would have been this season as well if he hadn't been injured so much. I think Rafa's final season is the only season in a long while where he hasn't been close to a shoe-in for that tbh.

    But yeah, if you include all those names from 2000, with names who weren't all at their peak at the time and then compare to the current list only with players at their peak, it's going to look sparce. I think you can include Gerrard, Lampard, Essien, Ozil, Schweinsteiger, Kaka and Fabregas in the list of current ones.

    And even if you only go by their current peak, Fabregas definitely needs to be in there.
  25. Jun 24, 2011
    #25

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    How do you judge that. He's certainly done more in the premier league then Veron did for example. Why is Veron there. In 2001 Veron was at Manchester United. I'd certainly say Carrick has played better for us than Veron has.
  26. Jun 24, 2011
    #26

    7even Resident moaner, hypocrite and moron

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    Same same but different...
  27. Jun 24, 2011
    #27

    Kaos Full Member

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    Keane and Alonso are completely different types of Midfielders.
  28. Jun 24, 2011
    #28

    7even Resident moaner, hypocrite and moron

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    You must be kidding me.... We have to wait for a karate kick on Alves then they are comparable.......don't you think...
  29. Jun 24, 2011
    #29

    finneh Full Member

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    Each and every one of those comparisons is crazy. Unless he's just citing players that are good against other players that are good. Even still including the likes of De Rossi, Banega & Pastore is a bit weird.
  30. Jun 24, 2011
    #30

    peterstorey Specialist In Failure

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    I think Gerrard started every season under the misapprehension his proper position is CM but in fact Benitez played him elsewhere in the majority of games except home games against weak opposition.
  31. Jun 24, 2011
    #31

    Trigg aka Trippin_Stoned

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    No. Not at all.

    I just think there's a obvious lack of quality in central midfield at this moment outside the top tier and now that would drastically improve on what we have at the moment.

    Afterall United midfield is vastly underrated from many on here.
  32. Jun 24, 2011
    #32

    Sarni nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan.

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    What's scary is that first three on the list will soon all be at Barcelona and to be fair Busquets could easily be added to that group even if he is an utter cnut.
  33. Jun 24, 2011
    #33

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    I think the whole premise of this thread is pretty stupid to be honest.

    In 2001, Veron joined Manchester United, and then a few years later joined Chelsea. He didn't set the world alight.

    In 2001, Deschamps played his last year making a whole 8 appearances for Valencia.

    From 2000-2004 Redondo played 16 games for Milan.

    And yet these are players who at the turn of the millenium were better than Carrick?

    You're mixing up these players entire careers, with players in the here and now.
  34. Jun 24, 2011
    #34

    B20 HALA MADRID!

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    Nope. See explanation above.

    Gerrard is as comfortable in central midfield as he is further forward. The most recent games against United and chelsea should be adequate proof of that.
  35. Jun 24, 2011
    #35

    peterstorey Specialist In Failure

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    It bollox though. Benitez started with a Sissoko/Hamman CM, moved through Alonso/Sissoko to Alonso/Mascherano. I don't know why Liverpool fans insist on clinging to the nonsense about Gerrard being a great CM.
  36. Jun 24, 2011
    #36

    Cina full member

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    I'd have Busquets and Schweinstiger on the list too.

    Busquets is the best in the world at what he does and goes very unnoticed because of who is in front of him.

    There's a lack of quality established midfielders out there, ie. the list above but there's shitloads of young talent around that could end up on that list in a few years.
  37. Jun 24, 2011
    #37

    Brwned Have you ever been in love before?

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    Him playing 46% of his 163 games in centre mid over the course of 4 years between 2005 and 2009 suggests you're the only one with misconceptions pete...
  38. Jun 24, 2011
    #38

    B20 HALA MADRID!

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    because he has played a great many outstanding games in central midfield every bit as good as his performances elsewhere.

    benitez did not start with Hamann/Sissoko. Sissoko came in his second season. Gerrard started far more games parrtnering one of Alonso or Hamann in the centre than he did with both of them in the lineup.

    In his second season, Sissoko played mostly from the right for the first half of the season. It was only in the second half that Benitez cottoned on to the fact that Gerrard was a far better rightsided midfield than Momo and changed it around.

    And in all cases, it has been a case of Gerrard moving into a position occupied by a player who wasn't working out in order to facilitate a player in another position who was working out. It has never been a question of Gerrard's own performances. The only exception to this is that against the best teams, Benitez as a rule preferred two holding midfielders in the centre.

    Seriously, unless you watched Liverpool on a highly regular basis in those years I just don't think you're particularly qualified to argue the point. Being informed by the media 'analysis' on this issue doesn't give an enlighening perspective.
  39. Jun 24, 2011
    #39

    Ramshock The spacegoats did it

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    is modric not a centre mid then?
  40. Jun 24, 2011
    #40

    Wes Banned

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    worth pointing out that the players on that old list were every bit as sought after as the likes of Xavi are now
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