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Call it as it is.He came on and did nothing...again.
We need him more than he needs us right now though. Financially he's doing the same, reputation wise most will blame the manager, situation wise it alerts other clubs he's not having the best of times......unless you really really want to be the worlds best player (which he clearly doesn't give much thought to)....then he's winning here!
And the idiots on an Internet forum crying about it.
They ran a lot. Which is the main criteria to be selected in Mourinhos team
What did we create though?
Odd comment...our team is in the bottom 3 for running stats I read somewhere?? Seems fans like you are happy enough with that though.
Bet he'd pull his finger out if Zidane came in.
I'm no longer a fan of Mourinho, he's an idiot, but any player who takes the wage and pulls on the shirt should put a shift in. Pogba refusing to run, just kicking the ball into touch or giving it away without giving a shit is Pogba showing utmost disrespect, tarnishing the reputation of our club and deliberately insulting every single supporter.
I'd put him training with the kids then sell him in Jan for whatever - I don't care how much we lose on the underperforming show pony, we're better off without the insult of the Paul Pogba comedy show playing every week.
He makes us all a laughing stock, he even tried to sell himself to City but some of our supporters are totally blinkered to what a shit he is.
They should understand that fans of other clubs want us to keep him because they see that he was never worth the price and that he's an ongoing impediment to our success.
We went to shit way before he came on, most notably when Martial went off. Add to that Lingard was substituted aswell, leaving Pogba to create something for two non-removable objects in Fellaini and Lukaku instead. The first thing Pogba did was to create something out of nothing down the left side when he dribbled past a defender and made a good cross only for Lukaku to hilarously misjudge his jump again.
After Fellaini came on Project Hoofball was the only plan for the remainder of the game.
It is pathetic. It’s also a really problematic flaw in his personality. What happens when he decides he doesn’t like the next manager? Or the one after that? Let’s not forget that Deschamps had to pull their relationship back from the brink too. Not all modern footballers behave like this. So it’s serious issue for the club when the player we’re supposed to build our team around has such a brittle personality.
I think you are overreacting....this is how it works...same with Jose's last season at Chelsea. The players soon pick up when faced with someone new. Pogs will prob run off to Real or elsewhere as soon as we do get another manager in anyway so when fans think we've removed any reason to not perform. If players don't buy into a way of playing, the reasons why are irrelevant....we need to change manager, if it doesn't change then, we need to replace the player. Manager first, players second.
Fans evaluations of player performances should never be taken seriously too often imo. Comments like this are a great example why. There's just too much bias.
Especially in positions where it's not as tangible like rating an offensive player.
As I said above I'd change Pogs if he repeats this with our next manager. Not before with Mou. Personally like I said I think he's coasting his way to an exit from the club. If he was ripping it up he's pricing himself out of a move which this summer, given his form....will be so much cheaper and attractive to the biggest clubs. He's an icing player for me anyway, an absolutely great one if all other cogs are to his liking. We are no where near that level though so he'll benefit another team instantly that is. We need grafters with guile, effort and sweat! We'll still need that when Mou is gone to raise us from 8th. Have to say Martial's effort last night (not for the first time) was so many levels above where he was for me in previous seasons. Mou needs to leave but Martial can be a great team player going forwards and backwards, so can Pogs if he'd apply himself......more modern managers than Mou they'll find will want them to do even more hard miles.
I would say though...for what its worth....I'd love supporting a club where every single player knows in their heart....if they don't perform....they will be shown the door. That simple line which is drummed into them by basically watching their friends leave having done it. I think where players believe they can out last the manager.....you don't get the same level from them. Maybe with habitual winners you do...but not 95% of players. I think that became SAFS biggest strength. If Mou wasn't the type to only think of himself, I'd support that now. But I think Sir Bobby was right here. No matter how much trouble SAF had at times with all on sundry, he also had deep rooted values based on respect for the players and not hanging them out to dry.
What I will say is SAF would have moved him on quickly and quietly showing the squad how it works here. Mou couldnt do that even if he wanted to.....the players know it.....hence the problem starts!
Absolutely. It will be extremely painful when he moves on and his quality becomes clear to our fan base. Don't forget this is the same player Mourniho described as a "monster" when he came back to play the first game without a pre-season after the world cup.
Despite his so called poor form - he has still racked up a reasonable amount of assists and goals(i know it includes pens).
There are prob bournemouth players on a par with his stats? Mobility wise he's like a young Matic at times ha. It's not all on his manager the basics are on him.
Mou has to go but jesus most of me is hoping that so we can finally flush out the misconceptions that the new guy will bring out the best in this near title winning team....what like 30 player changes and counting over 6 years.....but it will only take 3 new players!
As much as we can make excuses about systems, needing to unlock him, etc, the biggest thing holding back Pogba right now is Pogba.
Pogba cant say hes doing his utmost but is being let down by others. Right now Pogba is letting down the club, the manager and the fans. If hes not putting in a shift cos hes never been that type of player, thats one thing. But his basic errors are on him. Its not like hes running games but others are ruining chances hes creating like his first season back. Hes managing to mis control the ball, or give away simple passes.
He rightfully didnt start the game last night, but was given a chance when he came on. And he didnt do anything to warrant starting the next game ahead either.
Pogba is to blame for his own rubbish performances, which aren't even exclusive to this season.
Pogba has not been our best player, at all, in any way.
He's sulked, he's been sloppy on the ball (costing us a win on more than one occasion) he's been a generally negative impact on the season.
This whole single handedly dragging our midfield is the most laughable thing you said though, he's been pretty terrible as a midfielder througout his time here, a few decent passes don't change that.
If not being sold on a player that plays poorly 90% of the time makes me clueless then quite frankly I'm happy to be. At United weve been lucky to be able to watch some seriously good players week in week out, does Pogba compare to our greats? Not a chance.
And Mourinho deserves criticism for signing both yes. I don't absolve him of the blame. He should have never built the team around Pogba to start with.
You don't provide any concrete answer for my other question, just the same usual talking so I'll leave this point at this.
Yeah, someone's an idiot because they think our fans shouldn't boo our own player based on garbage placed in the media by our toxic manager..................
Surely the club did due diligence before signing Pogba and would know that his best form is when he has quality around him? Something the club has failed to provide him with and now hence his sub-par performances. For what it's worth, I am disappointed by him aswell but some of the scape goating is really bang out of order.
What basis do you have for that? If anything Arsenal looked the more likely even before he came on.
Also it’s very naive for people to think that Jose’s comments didn’t influence people. I’m not saying everyone but certainly more people got on his back in light of those comments.
Pogba probably has been our best player this season, although that's a sad indictment on the others more than how well he's played.
At the beginning of the season, it was Shaw and Pogba who were comfortably our best. Pogba then had a couple of poor games (during which nobody else really stepped up), then we had another period where it was Martial and Pogba who were easily our best. Yes he's been terrible lately, but he's ahead of anyone else purely on the fact that at least he's had two good periods which is more than anyone else has.
Huh? You asked how a manager turns a non hardworking player into a hardworking player...and I have said through good man management and tactical training. Unfortunately telling someone repeatedly they aren’t playing well is rarely going to motivate.
If you want 6 Herrera’s chasing after every ball that’s fine, but it’s not what is needed to successfully execute a high press. They need to work on it constantly in training and 100% that isn’t being done with Mourinho. He has never had a high enough defensive line to play that way.
I’m not saying Pogba isn’t to blame for his bad performances, he definitely is. But I find it hard to judge him based off the fact the whole team is a shambles.
Herein lies the problem; Pogba receives the ball, does a little shuffle and sidesteps a challenge, then moves 5 yards sideways and put the ball through a challengers legs then either has the ball taken off him, and doesn't even try to get it back, (which is mostly what happens) or he kicks the ball inexplicably into touch (second most regular thing he does) or he hoofs it into a space where none of our players are (I'd say third most regular thing he does).
Anyone who has any clue about football can see that the stupid show pony has stopped our attack and given the ball away (yet again) but the Pogba fans see his fannying about showing off as an example of how brilliant he is. ycmiu
Except he has created more chances than any other player in our team. But hey, I must not have a clue about football according to you because I don't think he is a 'stupid showpony'.
When we were first interested in signing Pogba I had some reservations. I posted those on here at the time too. Main one was that Pogba was coming from Juve, from playing with Pirlo and Vidal to join Utd. 1. He took a step down by coming to Utd. Juve were/are a much stronger team than Utd. He was leaving a side to join one with a significantly weaker squad.
I think many of Pogba failures are partly his own but I think they also have a lot to do with Mourinho and the clubs strategy on signing players. I stressed on here at the time that signing that him alone would not be enough. If we intend to sign Pogba we would also need to surround him with better midfielders to see the best of him. But the higher ups at Utd/Mourinho saw him as a player to fix our midfield. He was never going to solve all our problems by himself. He isn't that player. I see him in the same way Fergie saw Ronaldo. When he got Park to run around and others to do all his defending for him.
You can't take a player out of a side with Vidal & Pirlo to join an abysmal Man Utd team with mediocre players like Matic,. The gulf is significant. The higher ups must have genuinely thought we were paying £90M to fix our midfield. The thinking at this club is laughable. They look at Pogba as a marketable player with immense talent but they read him completely wrong.
I am not saying I don't think he could be doing better but the circumstances at the club have set him up to fail miserably. I do think he needs/should be doing better but again he is used to playing with better players who do donkey work for him. He was a monster at the World Cup because he had Kante/Matuidi covering every blade of grass for him to focus on creating openings.
I do have some sympathy for him because I do see a player that wants to do well, tries to create, takes risks. I have lost count of the amount of times Lukaku has bottled or denied Pogba an assist.
I do think we can try to help him thrive a bit more. We need find ways of adding some pace and energy to the midfied. We can't do this with Static Matic in MF.
I would like to see the below midfield: Attack
GK: de Gea
- We don't have Pirlo or Vidal but I think we can use Fred, Lingard and Pereira to bring some much needed energy and movement to the Midfield. I think this would give us a good about protection at the back. Bailly-Lindelof are better on the ball. Would pass forward more than Smalling and go.
Midfield-Attack: I would not start Lukaku anymore. He just makes it easy for the opposition:
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I am not saying this going to turn us into Man City. Just an idea on how we can move forward and possibly get more from him and our team.
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No, they’re idiots based on the assumption it’s true and the assumption that fans aren’t fed up with Pogba half arsing his way around the pitch. For a player that is a virus and won’t play it’s strange that he came on and played in the very next game. Reminds me of when Sanchez wouldn’t play for us ever again.
Would love this team. High technical quality in midfield with proper full backs and a fast front two. I would like to give Sanchez a shot at both the CAM and Striker position though.
The way people convince themselves of things that they cannot know for sure is ridiculous ("Pogba would never work under Klopp or Guardiola" is a fecking myth)
Duncan Castles is a well known Mourinho buddy and that article didn't come out of thin air, and it's no coincidence that off the back of it a few nimrods booed our own player last night, this is what Mourinho did at Real and Chelsea as well, created this rift with players and fans while taking zero responsibility for the issues at the club and with the way the team play. I already told you Pogba only came on as someone had to hit those long balls to Fellaini as our other players either haven't got a pass in their locker or only play it sideways. If you really think fans are booing him for his attitude then how the feck are Lukaku and Matic not getting booed? or even Martial at times who am a huge fan of? as all of those players have slobbed around the pitch looking like they don't give a shit at one point or another this season, it's what happens under this manager, practically a whole fecking team lost their will to play at Chelsea.
Here's the thing, I would never have thought a couple of brainless fullbacks like Walker and Mendy would work under Pep, but they are, and remember how Robben evolved at Bayern under Heynckes? With good man management and a consice playing system it's amazing how much more there is to come out of many players.
I have a question, how fit is Pogba? It's been lost in translation but he has been injured for the better part of November.
I think the 'nimrods' in this debate are the people who have convinced themselves that Pogba was only getting criticism after the Castle's article came out as some sort of deflection from Mourinho's failings. In reality, Pogba was being rightly criticised during and immediately after the game for his performance and lack of effort.
They're not mutually exclusive positions. Mourinho can be a problem, and Pogba can have let himself down on Saturday. Fans don't have to pick between the two positions simply because you can only see the world in black and white and can simultaneously criticise both parties.
I'm not talking about criticism of Pogba on here, I have criticized him myself, I am talking about our fans booing our own player at Old Trafford directly after an article from Mourinho's known media buddy paints the picture of him as a "Virus" at our club. It's not that Pogba is beyond criticism, far from it, but booing him at Old Trafford?
Or booing a player who, in his last performance, disrespected the shirt in the opinion of a lot of people – even before Castle's article came out.
We can argue till the cows come home about whether OT should be more vocally critical of Mourinho, but Pogba himself is not a good case study to suggest they actually actively support him. Fans up and down the country who spend their money to go and watch games get annoyed with millionaire players who can't be arsed to put the work in. If Pogba's going to decide to play stupid games to prove whatever point he was making, then he can't complain about the fact that he's won a stupid prize.
There's no way of knowing because we have a manager that demands you play even if not at 100%
He looked disgusted at full-time last night, cannot see him here next season which is a shame. Fully understand the lack of movement ahead of him with Mourinho's tactics, or lack of, make it difficult for him but he has an awful tendency to slow it down at times and to be too casual, he's not playing in Italy anymore! We would have hoped he'd have had the character to put this team on his back, as he has the technical ability, but I suspect he'd prefer to be the supporting act on the pitch and the super star off the pitch.
How did he disrespect the shirt? He had a poor game, so did practically everyone else, we were garbage from top to bottom, and our problems were caused by the stupid line-up the manager went with to prove his point because like a spoilt brat at Christmas he's still throwing a tantrum over not getting what he wanted in the transfer market, yet I see no booing for that disrespect, the same disrespect he showed those travelling fans with that West Ham line-up which was another pettty attempt to prove a point, or the disrespect he showed the entire club in that presser after Sevilla made us their bitch on our own ground. If they are so protective about the club and shirt then they can't be hypocrites about it, as Pogba's performance against Southampton was no worse in attitude than performances we've seen from Martial, Lukaku, Bailly and Matic, and Mourinho's performances and lack of respect for the club is much more evident than anything seen from all those players combined.
He's done that several times this season alone. He's been at the heart of every one of our comebacks bar last night. He looks injured though.
If a player is just a lazy bastard, I can't get how anyone can transform him magically from lazy to hardworking. Managers aren't responsible for every aspect of what a player does. There's something on the players themselves, obviously.
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