Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Zlatattack, May 13, 2019.
He's either embarrassingly shit at pressing, closing down and defending or he's lazy. Pick one.
I think he gets bored doing the basics of the midfield job. That is not just in defensive situations, but also on the ball, he can play a continuity game, keep it simple, move the ball quickly, but after a while he wants to do more. Not a surprise with his level of talent but it also makes him a problem for his team that can not just be ignored because of creative stats, good goals return this year as well, if inflated by pens.
Lacks the concentration and focus of other midfielders, always going to go through a spell in a game when he switches off, starts trying to hold the ball under pressure, take extra touches, try too much with the ball, wander out of position. He would be a much better player if he could mature beyond that, we saw a glimpse of it in the WC, a focused Pogba who played in a responsible if less spectacular way.
Not many midfielders in the modern game who don't have significant defensive responsibilities.
Probably been posted already but
Makes more sense. But I'll also say that I'm pretty sure distance covered shows how much stamina a player has, not how hard they work
It's also influenced by when you enter and leave the field. Someone that plays 90 minutes almost all the time will have his average drop at the end of games.
How come Mata is at the top then?
Because clearly he has stamina to travel a large distance over the course of a match? It doesnt mean he runs at full speed with aggression to close players down with pressing, but it obviously means he has the stamina to travel a longer distance overall than his teammates. Plus he has the role where he doesnt stick to the right but wanders all over in the middle.
Mata has 6 sub appearances and has been subbed off in 11 of his 16 starts. This may skew the numbers in his favour.
Pogba has just one sub appearance, subbed off in 6 of 34 starts.
As mentioned above, any player (if they aren't doped to the gills, at least) will run less towards the fag end of a match.
Doesn't tell me anything, because I am sure someone ranks 1st in Cardiff Huttersfield as well.... If Pogba created the MOST chances etc. in the entire league, for the team but his team mates wasted all of them, then it tell me something
Pogba could run 20km every game for me, he’d still be the first out of the door
I always cringe when I hear a black player called lazy, as it's a racist trope. Lukaku gets it all the time, as does Martial, increasingly. Shades of Ron Atkinson. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2004/apr/22/football.raceintheuk
He's a professional football player who has to run around once a week for 90 minutes under intense scrutiny. Of course he isn't lazy. He just won the World Cup. He's in the wrong team to reach his full potential and he also lacks the consistency to be the world class player we want him to be.
Racism card again
Lazy is one of many things you could attribute to Pogba....
How many times has he lost his runner?
How many times has he mis placed a pass and just thrown his arms in the air instead of getting back into position?
How many times has he been wasteful through lack of concentration?
Why people want this over hyped clown at our club is beyond me - his attitude/work rate and desire to put a shift in for this club is everything that's currently wrong at this club.
He'd be the first one i'd sell this summer.
Before the Pogba is our only good player brigade pipe up, i'm the first to admit he is talented, he has ability.
What he brings to our club doesn't match his potential though - and he is an influence in that dressing room for the worse,
We need to re-build. Pogba shouldn't be a part of that
Why do you think black (or mixed race) players like Rashford, Lingard, Fred, Smalling or Young never get called lazy? They get called shite, often, but never lazy. Why is that do you think? Also worth bearing in mind that only other player in the squad who consistently gets stick for not working hard enough is Luke Shaw. .
(Turns out that, in terms of distance covered, only Young comes close to being as objectively lazy as the players you mentioned)
This is all true but doesn't explain why Matic (who is 30 years old, as well as able to use the same tall/heavy excuse we hear a lot about Pogba) averages over 1km more than Pogba per 90. Which is a big difference. Can't be arsed checking but I'd say Matic has finished a similar % of games he starts to Pogba.
that's a terrible post. Pogba is called lazy because he loses possession and doesn't chase back, simple as, Matic is called it as he just doesn't chase back. Lukaku runs 20 m and then spends the next 20 mins doubled over out of breathe. He even admitted he was too heavy. Martial is called it because for all his ability he looks bored most of the time and doesn't fully utilise his talent. The same compliant was levelled at Januzaj and we don't want to see a repeat of that. The most revered and energetic defensive mid in the league and one most of us would love to have is Kante. We are linked with another busy energetic mid in Gueye at Everton.
Don't look for crap that is not there. Players are lazy regardless of whatever creed, colour or race they are.
Ahead of Young/Smalling/Jones/Rojo/Darmian/Matic/Lingard/Mata?
Matic is the one actual barometer in my opinion and from that point you have to look at the type of efforts that they both have, particularly in terms of intensity. As an example iirc Modric is around Pogba's figures while Kroos is above Matic, the type of efforts depends on the type of role and playing style. In order to judge the players we need a lot more data.
Or maybe it's true. Show me the white player that's been accused of it consistently.
Show me the Sanchez is lazy thread then.
Berbatov was accused of it all the time.
Luke Shaw is the most recent example. More fat than lazy but meh, whatever. Same thing really.
Berbatov also had the same Pogba habit of standing or sitting still, waving his arms at the ref, when he was dispossessed. Thus drawing attention to his laziness.
For me, it's Lukaku and Pogba that get consistently called lazy. Certainly fair to call Lukaku unfit. Certainly fair to say Pogba plays a self centred game. These guys are not above criticism. It's the use of the word lazy that evokes the Atkinson trope. It attributes an integral characteristic to them.
It isn't though.
It makes me cringe as well, and you have idiots who laugh it off as if its not a thing. 9/10 times when a player is being labelled lazy he's black. That's everywhere else in Europe as well.
He was lazy as fek though
Fecks sake why is it that every time I open a thread about one of our black players there's always a discussion about racism?
Rio Ferdinand got it quite a bit as well because of his style
Because it was a trope in this case. If people started using anti-semitic tropes about the Glazers, I'd call that out too. And I hate those cnuts with a passion.
For lack of work-rate? Pretty much our entire squad.
Lazy is not lack of work rate. The first is an inherent characteristic. The second is a performance issue to be corrected. That's the point.
Because of one or two people who are obsessed with pushing that agenda.
Whenever a player gets called lazy on the pitch, it's always in relation to their performance.
When I point to Pogba for laziness, it's for his lack of effort on the pitch. I've seen him too often jogging back or walking about. He's not as bad as Martial or Matic of course, but you'd still expect more.
I don't recall ever mentioning it before. I don't really go for that SJW internet cr#p
Martial and Lukaku are in the bottom 5 in the Premier League for distance covered per game, out of all players. It's one of the problems with our team. Ole is getting rid of Lukaku so we can play a high intensity high pressing game more in sync with the modern game. I don't think it's racist to say they don't work hard enough, if we want to play like City or Liverpool anyway. Perhaps Lukaku's build precludes him from such a style but I don't see why we can't get more out of Martial.
It is though. Lazy = lacking in discipline. Not making the effort required. Some players (e.g. Lukaku/Shaw) look visibly unfit. Others (e.g. Pogba/Berbatov) look as though they’re not trying hard enough. But ultimately it’s all down to not being dedicated/hardworking enough. Which is a flaw fans find very hard to forgive. We’ll never be as good as football at these guys but we’d like to think we would, at least, try hard.
I agree. Not the same as lazy.
Wether he is lazy or not. His impact during the 90 minutes is very minimal. During the match against Cardiff he almost did not have any ball touches for a good 20 minutes. This happens may times in other matches. Now you can put this on many factors but from what I have seen is that he is not making smart runs to get the ball. His off the ball movement is terrible. I see other players making an effort to be open for a pass while he is just jugging around. This happens may times in other matches. Plus his body language shows disinterest most of the time.
Messi never looks like he's trying very hard. Lazy cnut.
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