Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by dhstriker, Dec 6, 2009.
What will he do?
Losing two of the clubs brightest young prospects coming through the ranks would be absolutely horrible. There's no positive spin to be put on that.
Us not signing big money players over the summer feels better than losing our own talents does. I mean, they are/were ours after all.
It won't affect Fergie the least bit. Paul Pogba is hardly some deadly ammunition to use against Fergie. But it sure doesn't reflect well on the club.
I agree. It is ridiculous that one of the biggest clubs in the world can't hold on to their youngsters.
We can't hold onto all of youngsters, nor would we want to.
It sounds as though we didn't want to hold on to Morrison and we do want to hold on to Pogba. If Pogba does leave it's a pain in the arse but not exactly "ridiculous". Shit happens.
Obviously we wouldn't want to hold on to all of our youngsters. I would presume, since the club spend so much money on the academy and youths etc every year, that they would want to keep a hold of their best talents.
If these Juventus stories are true, why would Pogba choose Juventus over United? And losing a potential top talent like that is ridiculous. It is ridiculous that he wasn't nailed to a contract long before now.
You're taking shots at people for not knowing what is acutally happening. Can't you see the hypocrisy in this? Especially after what went down in that Ljajic thread. Keep up, Pogue.
Like I said, I'm sure the club does want to hold onto Pogba. Fergie himself made that clear.
As for choosing Juve over United I can only assume they're offering more money. I've no idea how much more, though. I also assume his agent stands to "earn" a much bigger fee if Pogba changes clubs. So I doubt he's making much effort to thrash out a deal to stay at United.
Thats a whole other issue, but the Glazers penny pinching strategy is clearly causing problems for everyone.
Keep up with what? Are you still talking about Pogba? Or are you still doing your talking bollox in the wrong thread shtick?
If you insist on taking this off-topic, I could remind that you all I ever knew or discussed about Ljajic saga was in the public domain (published on the MUFC website, to be precise).
So the chances are that United are trying to get him on the cheap. If he is going to get more money and more playing time at another club, then I can certainly understand him leaving. In the long term, it's United that lose out. He can still become a top player wherever he plays.
Since when does failing to match the highest salary being offered to him at any other club in Europe = "on the cheap"?
That's without even getting into the role of the agent in all of this.
It'll all come out in the end, and I would bet that the deal being offered by the club is far less than what's being offered at Juventus.
If he's being offered more money, more football and in the same/similar competitions that United are in, added to that with his agent pushing for a move because it would suit him, then of course his head will most likely be turned. Unless he is a die hard United supporter like most of us are on here, he will probably go. Personally, I wouldn't hold it against him.
It's not difficult. I explained why I brought up the Ljajic thread in the previous post. I can see this is clearly a subject that you dont want to discuss and yes, it is off topic, so I'll leave it at that.
You'd have to be a knuckle-dragging moron to not agree with that. It's a classy stance to take, as opposed to the 'he can just feck off if he won't accept what we give him' shite that others are coming out with.
We don't even know if there's any real interest from Juventus. It could all very well be just fabricated by his agent to get a better deal. Agents do that all the time after all.
Or, lets grant that there's an offer from Juventus on the table. Perhaps money isn't the issue at all. Maybe he's been promised more game time.
It could be any number of things.
What's fascinating to me, is that whenever there's no evidence to support and favor a theory people will just chose the one they 'want' to believe most. Why would you then choose the most damning possible scenario for the club you support?
Oh I see now. Supposedly it's a 'classy' stance to take. Dear me.
Read the post I quoted again. He said 'if'. IF that is the scenario!
Others have accepted that to be the scenario and laid all the blame at Pogba and said he should basically accept what he is given. I think it's classy to accept that Pogba may be better off at Juve IF what Name Changed said is true. I'd hate it if Pogba left, but even I am willing to accept his reasons for doing so.
Be quiet, you knuckle-dragging moron
There's no evidence for any scenario though, is there? That's why most people were using the word if when discussing it.
You went with a hypothetical scenario which paints United in a bad light. Trying to sign him "on the cheap", unable to provide the same opportunities he'd get at Juve etc. etc.
If none of us know exactly what's going on, why assume the club are mishandling the situation here? Especially when he's got an agent who is a know shit-head of the highest order.
We'll hopefully find out soon enough
I used a hypothetical scenario that Juventus were offering him a contract. I used that scenario because it's the scenario that's in the news at the moment.
If he does move to Juventus, one must assume that there must be a reason for it. He wouldn't move there for nothing. So if he did move, do you not think the most likely scenario would be that he would have had to have been offered a better contract and more playing opportunities? It's not exactly rocket science.
Can't believe you are having to explain yourself for the first part.
That's not what you did, actually. You used a scenario that United were trying to sign him "on the cheap".
Why do people keep assuming that if another club is willing to offer him more money than we're offering him at United this means the club is trying to sign him "on the cheap"?
How long do you think the club could continue to function if they had to offer every player a contract that pays him more than he could possibly earn at every other club in Europe?
If we go with the scenario that he's been made a reasonable offer (and I've no reason to think he hasn't) but Juve have offered more then it's up to the player whether he accepts this reasonable offer from United to continue playing at an incredibly successful club, under one of the greatest managers in the history of the game. A manager who who has an outstanding track record of bringing through youngsters into the first team, where the first-team regulars are paid salaries comparable with the very best around.
Alternatively, he can base his decision purely on which club will pay him the most money right away. Up to him really.
The United I've known in the Ferguson era don't let players leave if they really want to keep them. It just doesn't happen. Countless examples.
If we really wanted to have kept Morrison and Pogba then I don't think we'd have been near this situation. The footballing potential of them both is without question. If we are entering an era whereby unproven players are going to play hardball over salary, then I think that is something that Ferguson is going to find difficult to deal with, because our club is built on players having the right mentality. We don't want mercenaries at this club.
We might have to get used to this type of situation, or it might just be a freak occurance that two players have had contract issues in a short space of time. We'll have to wait and see.
It worth reiterating though that the United I know don't lose players that they really want to keep. I've got no reason to believe that this has changed.
So his fat feck agent (or someone who purports to be his fat feck agent) is posting on Twitter saying he's off to Juve:
The above tweet is 5 days old. Apologies if it's already been posted.
Agents are the cancer of football
On a side note, is anything about the state of the modern game more depressing than football agents trying to act like celebrities on twitter?
Ok, there is the whole racism thing...
Note that his own agent (assuming that's him) says "the money is good in Manchester" but random ITK gimps on twitter have been bleating about us trying to sign him "on the cheap"
Who to believe?
Pogba is kidding himself if he thinks that he has more chance of getting first team games, at his age, with Juventus
What's Juve's recent record like at bringing kids through from their reserves/youth team?
I didn't use that scenario.
I didn't say that if United don't offer the same money as another club, then that means we are trying to get him on the cheap. I do think that if United had made a reasonable offer before now, then he would have signed it. However, you are very naive if you think that the club is not doing their best to get him on as cheap as deal as possible. No club will give a player more than they actually have to to get him to sign. It would be bad business sense to offer a player 15k a week for example if he would sign at 10k a week.
How long do you think Ferguson has left at United by the way? Pogba is what, 19? If he is going to spend most of his career at United, then I highly doubt Ferguson will be there for all of it. Didn't Ferguson say recently that he has another 3 years in charge?
And United are not the be all and end all of football. There are other clubs that he can do just as well with. Juventus aren't exactly some shite club with no history of bringing young players through into the first team. The way some people are posting they must think we have the divine right to sign certain players and that no players should consider anything other than United as the club to play for.
Swap deal with Marchisio.
What? Nobody is talking about signing anyone.
As for Pogba, he's perfectly entitled to consider playing for a different club. He'd be turning down an opportunity that a lot of very talented young footballers would kill for, mind you.
Recent quote from Nicolas Gaitan:
Do you not realise that clubs, when signing players, try to get them with the cheapest transfer fee/wages?
Yep, and a lot of talented young footballers would love the chance to play for Juventus as well. I'd give my right testicle to be good enough to play for either of them. I'd choose United over Juve because I'm a lifelong United supporter. I doubt Pogba is.
Apart from Juventus, apparently?
Unless they realise that they have to offer him more than United are offering him if they want to sign him.
We're going in circles here.
Obviously, both clubs will be trying to get him to sign the cheapest contract he's willing to sign. That's how negotiations work.
The point I was making is that the implication that United were trying to sign him "on the cheap" implies he was being made some kind of desultory, insultingly low-ball offer.
His own (alleged) agent has confirmed this was not the case. That's all I'm saying.
Yes. Hence my original post (that you keep giving out about) that we are trying to get him to sign on the cheap. We always, every club always try to get players for as cheap as possible.
Separate names with a comma.