Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Pscholes18, Dec 6, 2018.
Interesting admirable football talents, but not his opinions nor his evaluation of players.
Seriously Romario is like one of the coolest players ever. And also in my opinion underrated.
Pelé didn't play against Hungary. The Bulgarians and then - once he returned to the team - the Portuguese basically kicked him off the pitch.
He is pretty much spot on about Messi In my book. Messi is like a master of one small group of moves and has become so good at them next to nobody can stop the said moves. But there are still just a few moves regardless.
Pele on the other hand was literally a master of ALLL trades. Whilst what seperate's Maradona from Messi is both his leadership ability and also truly thriving away from club football at the highest level.
The state of those defenses though. What are they doing?
You can’t even compare players from Pele’s time to contemporary players because the game is not the same.
Maradona would be a more practical comparison.
I simply refuse to believe there was anyone ever who was as good as Messi at football, there were some great players around, but they were still football players, he is not a normal football player.
His playmaking and passing abilities, his vision, his dribbling, his control and his machine like stats, for a decade at the highest level, the combination of all of that is not normal.
And no, I’m not a fanboy, I’m not even a fan of Messi, he’s made my team look like mugs in 2 CL finals, the only player I’ve ever been a fan of was David Beckham, I’m a club supporter, not a fan of individuals.
Just my completely objective look at his career so far, from the side.
Football has advanced so much, I find it difficult to believe Pele was better than Messi is.
The defending is not even non league level. A bunch of farmers.
I think it came out from Pele in a derogatory or insulting manner, but I think he's not wrong, that's one of the reasons I regard CR7 as the GOAT and slightly better than messi.
Vision, dribbling and passing range is not everything.
And as you can see, people easily remember and always use his header against United and his right footed goal against Bayern...but they don't remember others, plus, the stats speak for themselves: 23 goals with head, over 70 goals with right foot...for someone who has more than 600 career goals that is a very poor and one dimensional stat which actually reflects the kind of player he is, that's why he'll also find it hard to adapt to a new team/playstyle.
So, in a nutshell, Pele is right, but his statement didn't come out the right way
Based on this video, I would say that both Messi and Maradona have better close control than Pele.
Pele displays some incredible feats in the video above, but he doesn’t appear have Messi/Maradona’s ability to run at full tilt and still keep the ball close enough to cut/weave his way through a crowded defence.
Elders vs younguns init
The only reason for that is you being a Real Madrid supporter.
I mean, any objectivity goes right out of the window.
I honestly have no idea how can anyone value a heading game to such a monumental extent, or being two footed, many average players are two footed, Andy Carroll is a fantastic header of the ball, Messi is pretty short, that’s just genetics.
We’re talking about one of the greatest goal scorers of all time, and someone who was playing with a peak Xavi and there was no definite answer on who was the best passer in the team.
Comparing defenders between generations of often difficult, comparing players playing 40/50 years apart is impossible imo.
One one hand, you have defenders hacking Pele like he was a piece of meat. On the other, you see the amount of space and wonder if they are professional players.
Ronaldo is not better than Messi.
Messi would easily skip away from defenders with horrible timing of tackles and shite positioning. It’s easier to evade a lunge than a properly timed tackle.
What you think, but I genuinely think Ronaldo is slightly better...anyway, who am I to argue, itsijust your opinion and I respect it
Arguments can be made for both Pele and Messi.
But some of the stuff Pele comes out with...
He's a buffoon.
True. But the main reason you see so many lunges is because the punishment for hitting the player was non-existent. And if you injured him, all the better. The automatic red card you'd get today for such challenges is a major reason why the two great attackers of this generation have been able to play 60-70 games a season for over a decade. One of the beauties of Pele was being able to withstand that kind of treatment and still play every week for 15 years.
Even then, his legacy would have been greater still had he not succumbed to injury at the peak of his powers in the 1962 tournament, or had not been kicked out of the 1966 cup, or had the collective toll of that treatment not slowed him up a little by 1970 (as brilliant as he still was then).
actually, his (latest) opinion on Messi vs Ronaldo is the opposite of that. he said Ron is great goalscorer but to him, Messi is just better. he was asked about that in februrary I think. he'll probably think different in january though.
I think pele and Maradona attacking Messi every year is a really strong proof of their fear of being outshined by him. Casually, Leo is the only player treated that way, even when other players claimed themselves as the best of all time. Players of this generation.
Their insecurity shows how high they rate
It's irritating everytime people say stuff like Pele would play in the Championship these days. Pretty obvious from watching that he has the skillset to be a top player even today. I mean a guy like Lukaku with the first touch of a trampoline is a £70M striker.
A Messi fan calling someone else insecure. Jesus H Christ.
Sorry, I didn't know I had no right to an opinion for being a Messi fan.
It won't happen again.
You are a fan of overrated people.
What has the one thing even to do with the other?
Imagine if Pele was was born 50 years later than he did and was exactly the same extremely gifted individual, would he still be as good as he was back in his heyday? His fans would say that modern physical fitness programs, special diet etc. would enable him to perform as the world's best now just as he did back in 50s-60s but I have my doubts.
No one in their right mind would question his natural talent but football has come so far in the last few decades. You watch that 1958 WC final and it looks like a bunch of drunken fortysomething fans decided to play some footie on a Saturday night, they literally walk with a ball.
My mistake. The memory is a bit wonky after 52 years. I know that he scored Brazil's first goal but I could have sworn it was against Hungary. Oh well. Better get a check up.
Messi is far better than Maradona ever was, i watched them both and I think it´s pretty obvious except for Pele who is senile.
The vitriol in this thread is indicative of why these old greats fight to remain prominent.
Messi doesn't need to score with his right foot or head, he has this magnificent left leg that can't be stopped.
The level he plays at is simply out of this world and there's nobody even close to him. He plays against the best teams&defenses and makes them look average. The consistency and numbers he puts up is also unreal.
I loathe Barcelona, but Lionel Messi is the best player i've ever seen and since the game gets tougher every year, i really think he is the greatest ever. I could watch his highlights to no end.
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on youtube I tend to get lost watching Americans reacting to Messi vids. As neutrals to the sport they are in shock how someone can be so above their peers
@ "Pele is closer to Giroud than he's to Messi and Ronaldo."
Come on, man!
I liked "Victor Moses without Cornrows."
I'd put Pele above them both but he established a long time ago he's one of many great football players with just plain stupid views. And he's established in this very interview he struggles to keep a coherent thought on the subject.
Why he thinks he's better than Messi is facile but broadly true. However the exact same description can be given of Maradona, who he goes on to say is up there in the top 5. Maradona was clearly more one footed, clearly not particularly good in the air, and only had "one trick" in much the same way Messi does. That one trick being the ability to dribble past an entire team with your hips and toes is a pretty handy one, in fairness.
He doesn't really give a shit beyond making a point that he's the king, and shitty journalists exploit that for page views.
Who’s better between Maradona and Messi I can’t say. However Maradona had all the attributes you list but a major part of his game was his personality and charisma. He’s was like a Muhammad Ali of football. The guy was fecking electric. Hes definitely top 5, wether better than messi I can’t say.
He couldn't be the exact same player, that's for sure. I guess it would depend on how well he could channel his otherworldly talent towards today's more collective style of football. From the bits of footage I've seen, I can imagine that very well. Someone posted this video a while ago, I think it gives an idea about it:
I'm sure fundamentals like technique/coordination, spacial awareness, intuition/quickness of thought, etc. would still be outstanding today. His freakish athleticism & agility would still give him an edge over many players. And even though he couldn't use his dribbling ability the same way he could back then, it would still be devastating in the right situations - when Messi and Hazard can do it, why shouldn't Pele?
It's pretty tragic, football has missed something special.
How much stock do you guys put in the "he never played in Europe" argument? Did his clubs ever play European teams?
Isn't OP his latest opinion? Basically whoever is currently the best isn't good enough for some reason even though he argued differently in the past. All to big himself more seemingly.
The only one thing that he may be right about is that he's the greatest of all time, which really is the only one that matters!
Pele was a rare breed in his day in that he was one of the very few players who didn't drink or smoke regularly. He was a powerful powerful forward similar to Cristiano or Brazilian Ronaldo where a lot of his game was based on being quicker and more powerful than the defenders up against him.
I think Messi just edges this type of forward as he has reached a level of genius and consistency never seen in the game before at a time when professionalism has never been higher while being blessed with very rare skills that only Maradonna and Ronaldino have had in the game before and those two were only able to do it in spurts and only for 2 or 3 seasons and were unable to do it in every game for 6 or 7 seasons like Messi did up until a few years ago.
The Messi who played under Pep is 10 times the player of the Messi we have seen for the past 3 seasons. And I believe under Pep he reached a consistent level of footballing perfection never been seen before.
Pele made all those defenders look like farmers back then.
Which is what Messi does now with most of players.
And that's something both have in common.
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