People who call for Jose's head, what/who they want?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by minoo-utd, Feb 11, 2018.

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  1. Feb 13, 2018

    Arka_BleedingRed Full Member

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    Mourinho is still the Ultimate Underdog manager. If there is a manager that I woulf trust to take a lower ranked team in a disadvantage, all odds against them against a much bigger team, it would be Mourinho and then probably Simeone. Jose's style and tactics would suit perfectly to a tee because there wouldn't be any pressure to adhere to a particular tactic, style or method and the only thing essential would be providing the win. Look at his Porto and Chelsea sides.

    But at the very top tier clubs like Manchester United, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, Juventus and now the likes of PSG, City etc. There is a requirement of not only churning out results, but also the results should be there alongwith good attacking play and tactics, winning mentality, aesthetically pleasing style of play which suits the image of the club. It also helps satisfy the fans and attract the best of the players.This is where Mourinho fails I think. And now, with the evolution of tactics and inflow of huge money in the EPL, he has become quite predictable and easier to defeat.
  2. Feb 13, 2018

    Ish Lights on for Luke

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    :lol:

    let's hope he does!
  3. Feb 13, 2018

    Rajma Full Member

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    LVG: “I won the league in every country I ever managed”, I guess we should have allowed him to continue as well then?
  4. Feb 13, 2018

    yo@Kirk Full Member

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    I think it's time the Glazers appointed a director of football. Someone with the authority, knowledge and experience to question Mourinho's actions, like the positioning of Pogba and Sanchez or why the attacking players appear to have never trained together.

    As for prospective managers, there is a young manager at Schalke 04 who is turning heads, Domenico Tedesco. Tedesco earned a masters degree in Innovation Management before coaching football. At age 31, he took over last place 2. Bundeliga side Erzgebirge Aue on 8 March 2017 and earned 13 points in his first 5 matches in charge. Erzgebirge Aue finished 14th and avoided relegation. Tedesco took over Schalke 04 at the start of the 2017/2018 season. Schalke 04 finished last season in 10th place, 24 points behind 2nd place RB Leipzig. Schalke 04 are currently in 6th place, just 4 points behind 2nd place RB Leipzig. Tedesco is the only Bundesliga manager to win Man of the Matchday honors when he engineered a 4 goal comeback against bitter rival Dortmund after trailing 4-0 at the half.
  5. Feb 13, 2018

    mike bird Banned

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    People saying the Jose sold KDB, Salah and Lukaku they are talking rubbish.

    KDB - He said in an interview that Jose wanted him to stay but did not promise him regular football. So the player put a transfer request in. And we all know who makes the decisions at CFC, not Jose.

    Lukaku - See KDB, exact scenario.

    Salah - That donkey of a player was shyte with Chelsea, I ve watched a few of his games, he did'n perform. So he was loaned out.

    Why people blame Jose about the above players its beyond me. Get your facts right before you utter any nonsense.
  6. Feb 13, 2018

    mike bird Banned

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    Nothing impressive about this tedesco guy you are talking about. You sound like his agent. Dortmund are a pub team at the moment, anyone can score 4 goals past them.
  7. Feb 13, 2018

    Stretch Full Member

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    I've defended the manager so far as I believe we've been a better side than we were prior to him arriving. I've also been happy with the kind of signings he's made. However, I feel our next 10 games (FA Cup and UCL included) are so vital to us and I want to see him change things up. What he's trying at the moment is clearly just not working. If however Jose is still persistent over the next 10 games with his poor tactics and formation then I will have to start leaning to the hyper critical brigade. There's just some obvious changes he can make but he seems to stuck in his belief of how things should be.

    SAF made a huge adjustment in 05/06 when CQ arrived and he changed how setup and played and it worked for him. SAF noted after that he was not a fan of the change but knew he had to try something different. Our team feels very unbalanced and yes, the squad is a bit unbalanced but I feel like JM's making it worse with his selections and setup. Play fecking Shaw. Drop Lukaku if needed or at least rotate him. Try Sanchez on the right or as SS. And for heaven's sake play 532 or 433 with PP getting more freedom to link with Sanchez and co. It really isn't rocket science and I think he's starting to over complicate things. He's a great manager but even the great ones can be horribly wrong at times...it's even worse when they're stubborn to change
  8. Feb 13, 2018

    ValenciaRocks New Member

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    I agree completely. It's just a few small changes that would bring us out of this drop in form. We seemed to be getting it right at the start of the season then since the loss to Huddersfield and the draw with Liverpool he changed our system.

    Let's hope he takes a look at the start of our season and adjust accordingly.
  9. Feb 13, 2018

    L1nk Full Member

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    Then i apologise, it seemed like it was a wind up. But are you saying I don't support the club because im criticising Mourinho a bit? Which you seem to imply is not allowed, or at least, he's seemingly done nothing to warrant any criticism at all? Surely you agree he's done some critisizeable things
  10. Feb 13, 2018

    Nytram Shakes Full Member

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    it a really weird situation, i mean we are second, which is where we should be with this squad and team, so you can't really knock Mourinho for that.

    Its just that we play such boring football, out attacking unit look like strangers to each other, so many of our attackers are not playing as well we have seen them do in the past, our young players arn't progressing, with spent over 300 million with moruinho and most of his signings are struggling.

    But then if you flip the coin again you could argue that even if we are got all of the above right we would still only be second as currently city have a better team.
  11. Feb 13, 2018

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

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    Mourinho lost some points, by all means criticize his management, his subs, his approach of the game, but calling him a broken man, calling him finished, calling him stubborn, calling him have no balls, tactically inept etc are out of line.

    That man has won plenty in his short career, in fact he won 2 trophies just 8 months ago. He deserves some time, and support, and he hasn't let us down so far.
  12. Feb 13, 2018

    desmondisback Banned

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    I'm not lazily categorising Spurs. They have a history and that counts for something. They are having their golden generation period but it will pass and is passing. As a team they are right up there but as a club they don't have that edge or winning mentality to win titles. They haven't won it since 61 , that tells you something about a club.

    As for Jose , he's done a decent job of taking us back into the top 4 and making us harder to beat. That's about it for me. He's done his job and he stopped the slide but you can tell from what happens on the pitch that we are stuck and not moving forward. He's still failing in big games. Someone else needs to do the surgery that's needed.
  13. Feb 13, 2018

    desmondisback Banned

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    I agree. I'm sick of this passive negativity. Let's have a manager who believes in fast , incisive passing and players expressing themselves. Jose is so dour.
  14. Feb 13, 2018

    Water Melon before it dries out, eh

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    Remember SAF's words quoted by RvP? We are anything but that team, probably half a billion more expensive though. I think Jose has reached his current ceiling: spend tons of money and keep your team in CL. Nothing to suggest that we are going to win something major. If we somehow fluke the CL, just like Chelsea did, that would be grand though.
  15. Feb 13, 2018

    Saccharine New Member

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    It just an assumption but maybe Mourhino had the winning formula for for time and has failed to adapt to game... just like Wenger, in a sense, who won trophies for a period of time but doesn't seem to be able to get the best of his players anymore.
  16. Feb 13, 2018

    Ashish Negi New Member

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    What about Luis Enrique? He is a positive coach with winning mentality. If United are looking someone who can replace Jose i think MUFC management should consider him.
  17. Feb 13, 2018

    hn4manunited Full Member

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    Has he won the league here? He can be given time if he’s in a league where he’s won before and has shown that he can figure out how to win it. Jose’s won it here on two separate stints.
  18. Feb 13, 2018

    giorno Full Member

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    Well, the realistic high-end cut off point for top 4 is what, 76 points? United need 20 points out of 33, with 4 games against top 6 sides, 3 of which at home. For United to finish below that would imply a pretty serious regression in performances. At which point, missing out on CL football would ensure Mourinho got the sack - there would simply be no way to justify such a failure.

    As for potential replacements, well...Allegri, Sarri, Tuchel, Pochettino, Jardim, Fonseca, Spalletti...it's not like there are no options

    Besides, i'm pretty sure you could still bring back the Moyesiah :drool::drool::drool:
  19. Feb 13, 2018

    redflair Full Member

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    The key for me will be the one or two midfield players Jose will be targeting in the summer to replace Carrick/Fellaini, perhaps Herrera (presuming everything doesn't go belly-up now and we have a reasonable end to the season).

    Can he find that sorely-needed 'tempo' once the transition happens so that his 'new' midfield general/dynamo etc...can feed our front players quicker, more dynamically, more accurately so we can counter-attack with more purpose and ruthlessness?

    I hope he can - because his whole United future rests on it.

    And, as for us supporters, that's about as much 'style' as we're going to get.

    It will always be about being defensively sound and the vertical va-va-va-voom.

    Both areas a bit wobbly right now.
  20. Feb 13, 2018

    Rajma Full Member

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    The point I was making, is past awards while relevant shouldn't be defining factor. It's now 3 years since Jose last won the league and in the meantime he had Chelsea close to relegation, finished 6th last year, and if we're to end up outside top 4 by the end of the season, that would be horrific record and maybe influx of high quality managers in the league is something that he's unable to deal with and is getting left behind.
  21. Feb 13, 2018

    hn4manunited Full Member

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    Are you even listening or reading what you're writing? How many years has it been since Wenger won the league? How many years has Poch, Klopp, and Pep won the league here? Oh, never. Pep will likely win this year but we'll see about next year. Look at Conte. Won it last year and been far from where they were last year. This league is competitive. If managers don't have the right level of backing from the club, fans/supporters, and consistency of the players, it is almost impossible to repeat winning the league. However, being able to win here whether you spend, or other ways of bringing youth through is what matters. Figuring out how to win it is the key. Once Pep wins this season, people can qualify him as one of the managers who's figured out a way to win the PL regardless of whether it's spending an obscene amount of money or not.
  22. Feb 13, 2018

    GM K Full Member

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    I'll be surprised if he doesn't realise that.

    And his buys indicate he tends towards players who are strong mentally, a trait of leadership.

    I think the main worry with Jose is how much he is able and willing to evolve as a manager especially in tactical and man-management terms.

    Time will tell.
  23. Feb 13, 2018

    minoo-utd Full Member

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    Jose is staying and for me he deserves to. We need him to continue building the team, he is going to strength our defense and midfield and I trust him in that just like the attack, after we realize we almost have no such big weaknesses maybe the next season the real judge accur!
  24. Feb 13, 2018

    L1nk Full Member

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    Continue to build the team after 4 windows where he's had plenty of time and money to strengthen our team and defense, you trust him like you believe he's sorted out our attack? I have no idea what matches or team you are watching but our attack is far from sorted
  25. Feb 13, 2018

    Nikelesh Reddy Full Member

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    It's ridiculous for anyone to call for his head...As long as we keep qualifying for the CL,he stays,as simple as that.We can't keep changing managers at the drop of a hat,especially when there isn't a better manager out there....LVG was an upgrade on Moyes,Jose is an upgrade on LVG,who is an upgrade on Mourinho??
  26. Feb 13, 2018

    Oneunited26 Full Member

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    I don't think the fire is in this Jose Mourinho, he seems like a shadow of his former self, there is no swagger or edge to his methods, he seems rudderless, something is wrong very very very wrong. Yes he's known has a defensive manager, but his past sides have had a cutting edge and always blew the door down to be heared, there is something fundamentally wrong with this squad that top sides don't have we seem to be given a gypsy's curse and its painful that no matter who buy its like a blackhole of the abyss. But his chelsea sides 2005-07, inter 2009/10, real madrid 2010-13, chelsea 2013/15, all these sides had an attacking edge and would rip sides apart under him, this united 2016-present there is nothing to this team to look forward too, even last year there was some edge to us that is lacking spark this year, its like a mix of the rotten core of Moyes's mentality that has just killed us, VG's pointless senile football mixed with not quiet the badness of Jose Mourinho's collapse at his second stunt at chelsea, but its like those 3 managers combined and Mourinho is just about holding on to stop the rot, but it does not seem to be recovering, and it could go bad or not so bad we never evolving has a football team.

    People who want Jose Mourinho to stay, can understand we want stability, but? where is the evolution of our football, all I see is young, valencia at fullback, mata on the right who passes sideways, lingard who is not a number 10, sanchez on the left and he has not given us the spark we should get, martial shafted to the right, matic has been awful for ages, pogba no idea what has happened to him, jones and smalling are just rinse repeat recycle for years now. But the worst part of our defense, we played a back 5 that were here during fergie's time of hernandez berbatov and rooney were lacing their boots, that is how much work is needed, and I just don't know if Jose Mourinho is going to evolve or knows how too, the football feels like everyone is shot in the leg and they limping through each game

    I agree, he has a thing for for fellaini who is a contract rebel because he wants more games, and he likes lingard at no10, who is not one, he keeps playing young and valencia at fullbacks despite shaw is looking far better than young, former wingers who were known for their limited creativity, so already Jose Mourinho has clipped the wings of this team at wingback, and our creativity through the middle, he's thrown martial to the right who was outstanding before Jose messed with his position again. We still seeing jones and smalling make mistakes, and when our midfield and attack seem like strangers. People say he's building a team, but he's constantly playing young, valencia, matic, lingard, jones, smalling, lukaku in the team, that's allot of underwhelming players to throw your chips at the table and not to expect to come up empty handed. 10 years ago we were playing ferdinand vidic evra carrick scholes ronaldo rooney tevez, 10 years on! look who we are playing now?
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  27. Feb 13, 2018

    Nuts Full Member

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    I couldn’t disagree more. With players the calibre of de Bruyne and Salah if Mourinho had really known how good they could be (and known how to get them to reach their potential) there is always the possibility to keep them. If they’d felt like they were at a club that recognised their potential and wanted them they’d have stayed.
  28. Feb 13, 2018

    Ramshock The spacegoats did it

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    they need a brain
  29. Feb 13, 2018

    Jonno Full Member

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    I think you're forgetting my argument. My argument about Spurs was that they are in their golden generation, their best team they've ever had, supposedly their greatest manager, and my argument was despite all this, Poch isn't steering them to trophies and dominance - I then went on to argue that why should Poch be suggested by many in this thread to be preferred to Mourinho, when Poch is in year 4 of his time with, as you described 'the golden generation' with a team 'right up there'? You said they don't have the edge or winning mentality, why? They have one of the best squads in Europe. I don't care when they last won it, was Poch in charge in 61? No. The last time United had won the European Cup was 68, but they still won it in 99. Chelsea hadn't won the Premier League for 50 years, but they still did for the first time under Mourinho. Your argument is completely flawed and you shouldn't be defending Poch's managerial record because Spurs 'haven't won it since 61'.

    As for Jose, he's 'stopped the slide'??? We've gone from 5th, 6th to 2nd.......................... Stopped the slide? How about significantly progressed both in the league, in Europe and in our playing squad. When he arrived, our midfield comprised of Herrera, Fellaini, Scheinsteiger and Carrick. How can you say he hasn't progressed the squad?
  30. Feb 13, 2018

    Jonno Full Member

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    So why if Mourinho was 'supposed to know how good KDB was going to be', why didn't any other coaches who had scouted him, any other clubs that knew about him, buy him in 2013-14? Why did he end up at a mediocre German side for a cut price fee? Why didn't Pep sign him in 2013-14, or anyone else for this matter if Mourinho was expected to know how good he was going to go? The fact is, he didn't show any signs that he was going to blossom into a world beater, but hindsight on a football forum is a wonderful thing. People like you can sit here and moan that Mourinho 'should have known how good he could be'.
  31. Feb 13, 2018

    Roboc7 Full Member

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    I am now of the opinion that Mourinho’s best days have been and gone and that he won’t win the league here no matter how much money we give him. He doesn’t deserved to be sacked but you can’t really say he is doing a great job either.

    The club are so clueless at recruiting managers that there probably wouldn’t be any plan and would just end up in a bigger mess if Mourinho was to leave. We are still stuck in mindset of just giving all the power to the manager, spending money and hoping it works. There is no medium or long term plan and no sign of anything changing.
  32. Feb 13, 2018

    lysglimt Full Member

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    He started to show quite a bit on loan to Werder Bremen - so it wasn't like he turned brilliant over night.
  33. Feb 13, 2018

    sunama Baghdad Bob

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    I hear what you are saying. And what others are saying about Poch.
    The problem is that the job at MUFC is ridiculously difficult.

    When SAF left, most, including myself, thought the job was easy. Send out the team of champions and they'll win the league. Moyes proved that this was not the case and sunk under the pressure.
    Then there was LVG, who was decorated and rated. The guy was only capable of getting 4th and 5th place.
    Now, even Jose is realising how difficult the job is, even though he won 2 trophies this season and we are on course for our best league finish since SAF left.

    So, given how difficult the job is, letting an unproven manager take over, would be like throwing a baby to the wolves. If that manager fails I wouldn't blame him. I'd blame the people who employed him for the most difficult job in English football.
  34. Feb 13, 2018

    AR87 Full Member

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    I would like Jose to be more flexible in his tactical approach instead of steadfastly sticking to 4-2-3-1. Would also like him to give Martial a chance leading the line instead of steadfastly sticking with Lukaku at all times.

    IMO Mourinho has no excuses next season for us not to push City for the title and simply look like more of a dominant force. If he can't do that I would try to bring in a manager like Pochettino or Jardim, though I'm not so familar with the latter's style or ethos just been impressed with what he's done with Monaco generally.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  35. Feb 13, 2018

    Jonno Full Member

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    Shinji Kagawa showed quite a bit in the Bundesliga and he was distinctly average in the Premier League, under the best man in the business for getting the maximum out of players. Yet you're effectively criticising Mourinho for failing to get the best out of a young KDB who's never played in the PL.
  36. Feb 13, 2018

    lysglimt Full Member

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    No - I am criticising Mourinho for letting him play a total of 3 matches. If Mourinho really felt De Bruyne was good enough - he should have given him a chance. You cant sign a 21 year, play him 3 matches in 2 seasons, loan him out and expect him to stay at the club afterwards.
  37. Feb 13, 2018

    L1nk Full Member

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    Sorry but as much as I love Sir Alex, he brought Kagawa over as a #10 in a fast paced, short passing, quick transitioning Dortmund team where everything went through him, he wasn't blessed with great pace or physical stature but picking out a pass and an eye for goal was his thing, he's no Giggs or Beckham and Fergie put him in as a winger in a 4-4-2 that didn't even use inverted wingers so i'm not sure what people expected, we wasted him and his ability, whether this is because of the RVP or Rooney situation I don't know, but Kagawa was not suited to our style of play at all and I still question why we even signed him in the first place if we weren't going to switch up our play. You can argue well he should of adapted but there a lot of players that shine and play amazingly because of the system they are in, he is one of those players. Bergkamp was close to self retirement in his Inter days because of how poor it was and he couldn't fit in, till he flourished at Arsenal because he fit into their system, he was stifled more at Inter.
  38. Feb 13, 2018

    Greck Full Member

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    Pochettino. If Madrid gutlessly said Zidane hadn't won trophies they wouldn't be back to back CL winners. There'll always be a new crop of great managers with fresh innovative ideas that don't have the resumes of their predecessors.
  39. Feb 13, 2018

    Mickfoley New Member

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    Poch Poch Poch Poch Poch.
  40. Feb 13, 2018

    MyOnlySolskjaer Creator of Player Performance threads

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    Imagine if Buffon didn't make those mistakes.
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