Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Suedesi, Feb 11, 2019.
Schmeichel is a bit of a weapon, isn’t he?
Which 11 players?
Van Gaal's problem was he tried to do too much in too short a space of time, he sold/loaned/released 22-24 players in 18 months and bought very poorly he replaced deadwood with more expensive deadwood for the most part. Granted Martial is a very good player fair enough and Blind was decent but no better than Evans as a CB if we've honest. Outside of that it's only Romero who you could classify as a success.
Rojo, Schneiderlin, Depay, Falcao, Valdes, DiMaria, Darmian, Schweinsteiger were all terrible signings. Its well known Shaw and Herrera as LVG himself has stated were club signings that he had little to do with. They were already signed by the time he took over.
He can dream of being the DOF!!!
Moyes reign could have been different if he didn’t immediately let the idea of “i need to do it my way” take so much hold of him. He never changed his mindset around it and thus help he could and probably would have got never came.
Why does he speak so much shit?
What time for Moyes. Come of it Big Dane.
Surprising think to say, it was just planted in the interview too. He's the only manager from post Fergie I find hard to get a positive. I never seen someone so out of there depth. I can't think of one good thing he did honestly. LVG done more damage argubaly but we got Martial and Rashford out it. Jose was a mess but we won a European trophy and got Lindelof and Pogba out of him, Moyes couldn't have done worse if he tried. Moyes was the record breaker for all the wrong reasons, banter manager.
Moyes is a shite manager. What would giving him time achieve?
It baffles me that so many past players and fans think that he should have been given time. Based on what? He was shit at Sociedad, he was shit at Sunderland. He didn’t exactly set the world on fire at West Ham or Everton... he’s never won a trophy in his life. So what are we basing this on? He had his chance and he failed miserably.
If you ask me, he was sacked too late.
Man Utd manager celebrating after scoring against Fulham.
Too often we judge managers more on sentiment and less based on facts. Moyes was likeable at Everton and fulfilled this image in people's heads of a working class man, working his way up in a middle table club like Everton and doing "okay". People like that fairy tale story and thought he would do a Ferguson and transition well into United. It fulfills the narrative of the average British fan, and therefore most people thought he would do well. I can't recall any prominent person, pundit or otherwise, who thought he would struggle when he was appointed.
But when you actually have an intellectually honest moment with yourself, he is actually poor. A good manager is always someone who can transition between different clubs and always do well - that shows you he has the tools and understands how to fix problems, regardless of the problem and what environment he finds himself in. To put it in another way, there will always be a manager who will do well at ONE club as all the stars can line up for you at some point in your life, but it does not mean you are a good manager somewhere else.
Ole didn't do well at his previous clubs, but maybe, just maybe, his hand will fit our glove and the stars will line up for him this time in his career.
Relive the moment. Moyes spreading joy. Newcastle defeated us at OT after decades.
Moyes on RVP (when he was playing with injury) - "I think if I’d brought him off against Newcastle some people would have said ‘What are you doing? You are 1-0 down and you’re taking off your top goalscorer". Dummy's guide on how to ruin career of a striker.
Giving Moyes another half season/season would have been bad in the short run, but we'd have had more time to really assess what was going wrong and correct it.
As it was we assumed the only problem was the manager. It's only two managers later we're looking at how the club is run.
Manager don't learn from each other, just look at the Chelsea daisy chain.
For argument sake, what if we sacked Moyes in Nov, re-install Fergi as interim manager, until we can find a long term replacement.... May be it will still be LVG but our season may not be so terrible, with Vidic, Evra walked out of their contract.
Absolute nonsense from the big tart. You give more time to a guy that first year takes you to UCL semis, finishes 2nd or at least 3rd and wins the FA Cup. Especially with a "current PL champions" squad.
Moyes was a bad idea since the beginning and an actual disaster some months later.
I saw it last night, wasn't bad, triyng to not get in those two Jose's friends trap, but when he said that, I killed youtube clip. This is the reason, one of, why I don't want any of ex United players "talking heads" (pundits) nowhere near the club. Shut the hell up, get yourself a job as a manager, then let us see how you will do, then you might speak differenty. Or not, hint: Gary "give (insert managers name) more time" Neville.
Schmeichel was a great keeper but a bit of an Arse.
"You're used to disappointment" line had me in stitches
Ah... feck off Schmikes!
Dunno why but it seems all our ex players that go into punditry are bellends. Wayne seems to talk some sense at times, but the likes of Neville, Ince, Schmeichel and co seem really off it.
Bild is better than Evans. Evans was also horrible in Moyes season, while all our players underperformed, he was easily the worst of them, and looked more like a Sunda league player.
While back then Van Gaal looked stupid to sell players, most of his decisions have been justified. Rafael and Nani couldn't do anything after they left, same for Hernandez (Rafael and Chicharito were my two favorite players back then). Ando was shit, as was Cleverley. Welbeck spends his time at the hospital. All of these decisions in hindsight seem to have been spot on.
When it comes to signings, LVG was hit and miss. Shaw and Herrera are still important to the club, Martial is one of our top 3 or 4 players, Blind was important in all trophies we won since SAF left and we got the money back for him, Romero is probably the best second keeper in the world. He also gave the debut to Rashford, one or two years before anyone was thinking that Rashford will play for us, and made Lingard return from loan to become a regular here. There were some bad signings like Di Maria and Falcao, but then we got most of the money back for Di Maria. Schweinsteiger was a horrible signing, as were Depay and Schneiderlin, though again, we got our money back from them.
All things considered, his job was not a success, but also not a total failure. Our entire current attack is built from him, one way or another. His biggest problem was that he was a very boring manager, which means that he wasn't going to make it at us. Our second season went to shit, when the fans started 'Attack Attack Attack'. It gets understated, but United needs not only a good manager, but a manager which knows what United way is. Not complicated football, just straightforward devastating attacking football which makes us all enjoy it. Van Gaal wasn't that man, neither was Jose, Ole looks to be that man.
Neville is not terrible, when he is not talking for United. He also seem to be extremely stubborn. I genuinely think that 'give the manager all the time he needs' bullshit is not something that he believes anymore, but he has supported that idea for so long, that he just cannot take it back.
I agree on that. Nevs is a very good technical analyst, but as a pundit he has his off moments, most likely because he's part of the older generation, just used to "let's give the manager more time".
I agree with Schmeichel.
After Moyes we wasted what 3 more years. Would it have been that bad if Moyes had been given another year?
More like aspiring to be the Division 1 champions.
To steal a quote from Die Hard 2, Moyes was the wrong guy in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Challenger Deep levels of out of his depthness.
We wouldn't have won those 3 trophies we won, neither reach UCL twice (though we didn't do that great there), and would have solidified ourselves as a midtable team. A bit like Liverpool between Benitez and Klopp (minus the title challenging year under Rodgers) years.
The entire dressing room wanted Moyes out, players had confronted him, and seems like almost everyone just had enough of him. It is hardly like in Mourinho's and Van Gaal's years, where the team despite having problems with the manager was still trying. Under Moyes, most of the players had just given up.
If you fancied the DOF position Peter, you have just blown that mate
Well i disagree on Blind/Evans. Personally think Evans is the better CB.
Nani/Rafael/Hernandez might have been better at United than their next clubs had they stayed who knows, but what we do know is their replacements were worse for United.
Shaw and Herrera weren't LVG signings he has said that himself. Ha had no part in identifying, scouting or signing them.
So LVG's good signings were Martial, a reserve GK and arguably Blind.
His bad signings were DiMaria, Valdes, Falcao, Rojo, Schneiderlin, Depay, Schweinsteiger and Darmian. Its fair to say thats bad squad management.
But anyway back on topic to Moyes.
We qualified for the CL 2 years out of 3 and won 3 trophies, hardly wasted. Moyes has never won a trophy or qualified for the CL in his career and he never would have at United.
He was out of his depth. It was like a row boat sailer was asked to run aircraft carrier.
The ring consumed him.
Also, we were quite decent against top clubs. Multiple victories against Liverpool, City, Arsenal and Spurs, while Moyes managed to win a single game against top 6 opponents.
As bad as things were under Moyes, the feeling of helplessness every time we faced a big squad was something that was just impossible to handle. We lost 0-3 against Liverpool and 1-4 against City, and we were lucky in both matches to not have conceded more. Every fan knew that we were going to be thrashed on those games, and sure we did.
The following season, LVG defeated Liverpool home and away and defeated City too.
We lost 3-0 at home to Liverpool and then City in the space of about 10 days or something like that.
And we were lucky to get away with only conceding 6, the Liverpool game in particular really could have been 5 or 6 nil. Absolutely disgraceful.
Anyone that thinks we should have given Moyes more time is either mental, or wanted to see Utd finish 10th.
I love how Schmeichel divides our fanbase, makes me laugh.
What I would say is that if Moyes was the manager in 2014/15 I think we would have ended higher up than with LvG because of no european football. To finish 4th that season was very poor considering all the rest the players had after also going out of league cup against MK Dons.
Moyes turned down an offer when at Preston to be Fergie's No. 2 so he could stay and do his own thing.
That's like Steve Kean turning down a no. 2 role under Guardiola to stay focused on managing Brunei.
How Schmeichel thinks a small timer like that should have been given plenty more time in charge is startling.
I have not read the thread but the reality is he was way out of his depth. The above video where he explains not taking of RVP for fear of criticism tells you everything about him.
I only saw the first 30s of Schmeichel above and genuinely laughed out loud. Couldn't watch anymore.
Based on what?
Moyes never managed to finish higher than 4th, and did it only once. While he had time to build his own team, hadn't lost the dressing room...and well, didn't have European competition.
His highest ever points tally was 63 points, 7 less than Van Gaal that season.
It didn't matter that he had better player here. He had two all time greats in Rio and Vidic, and asked them to study how Jagielka defender for crying out load. His first signing was Fellaini. If he had continued, he would have signed Osman and ask Carrick to play like him.
Moyes was without question one of the worst managers in the clubs history, utterly out of his depth! Peter, a title winning team finished 7th under his watch!
Yeah I agree he likely never would have at United but given the appointments afterwards I think it would have brought some stability to the club. Many will disagree on me with this but I think LVG tore the soul of this club and damaged it far more than Moyes.
Moyes just couldn't do it but he wasn't changing our core. We should have found a new manager that understood United's values. Put it this way, I'd take another year of failure under Moyes and then hire a United level manager than LVG.
I agree with this. I think Moyes wasn't as bad as the table suggested but he was never good enough anyway so doesn't matter.
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