Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Davs, Aug 4, 2018.
And i bet that both will start on the bench
I'd say the opposite, 100% Foden won't start the final unfortunately. Here's hoping he at least gets the Burnley FA Cup game though!
So yup Guardiola said it or yup it's my opinion?
I’d be amazed if Foden started the final. Pep won’t take any risks whatsoever when it comes to the prospect of him not winning a final.
My opinion same as those saying he won't play. I have given valid reasons for it too, actually more on why he didn't start tonight as he's started every other game in the competition.
Yeah, makes sense. I haven't been watching football for a week or so, so I'm not entirely clued up. I'm shocked to see Spurs and City score quarter of century of goals in 3 matches.
The bitters didn't even start Foden against Burton Albion. That says it all about their intentions with youth. Fred the red gets more pitch time than their academy "stars" and just this week they lost one to Real Madrid. Phil Foden will be stinking it up at some relegation fodder before he's 22. It won't be long before he and others realise that they are merely part of an elaborate photo opportunity for marketing men in Abu Dhabi.
He's played 7,2 games of football this season, not 11 and that includes the Community Shield which is a friendly. From now on until the end of the season there won't be many more games like Burton or Rotherham or a dead rubber like Hoffenheim. How do you figure he'll double his game time in the next 4 months? Gundogan is sitting on the bench and with De Bruyne back that means less game time overall for the already rotated midfielders.
I think this thread should be renamed to
Foden probably needs to leave - Redcafe
He played 90 mins a few days ago. Think this is an overreaction.
For some reason CAF is obsessed with this kid. Not sure why ManUtd or any fans (apart from City fans) care whether they play him or not, he is just 18 and good chance he is convinced by City's development plan for him.
You missed out on an empty seats jibe, thoigh. Poor show
It's weird. Our similarly hyped talent with a similar age hasn't seen anything like the game time he has. If Foden needs to leave City, so does Gomes.
Because it is a stick to beat Pep with especially with what is happening with Sancho.
Yeah, I think so. I mean this player is just 18 and it's not like they have history of promoting kids from academy. Think it's to do with all the hype about their academy, when media couldn't wait to shit on ours.
Whatever it is, we should stop this. This player hasn't even played meaningful mins and we have a thread on him to discuss why he isn't playing more.
Yet some of the same people even tend to think that Gomes is the better talent of the two, which, at the very least, makes the obsession with Foden’s game time somewhat contradictional and hypocritical.
That's just rubbish, yeah since the takeover but before that we promoted plenty of players from the academy. What we need from academy players is totally different from what it was 10 years ago.
Then the players just had to be good enough to play premiership football, now the players have to be good enough to be close to compete with world class players.
I don't know, remember reading the stat that only 1% of players are from City academy in their history, whereas it's 49% for ManUtd. Maybe someone was taking the piss.
In any case, at least since the take over, it's piss poor and no one cares.
That's a bit of an unfair comparison is it not?
City from then and now are basically 2 different clubs.
Since you've spent a fortune on an academy you've not had many players come through and be a success at the club. Surely it's a fair complaint from some to question where they are.
You're 100% spot on circumstances have changed but teams like United have always had academy players in and around the first team squad and during that time consistently competed for and won the premier league. Not every one of them has to be world class it's about developing them and bringing them in to the team and that's what City seem to struggle with.
I think the problem is that the owner wants immediate success, Pep won't be there in 3 years time probably either so it's not really in their interest to develop these players.
Personally don't think Foden needed to start last night, I think the bigger issue with players like him is they should be starting in important games that mean something (i.e. a premier league fixture) that will be the proper test and confidence in him, not a dead rubber vs. Burton.
We need to see Gomes more from now on. Regular sub please.
Yeah they've spent a fortune but the level of players has chsnged to. 10 years ago players that were in the academy possibly wouldn't get in there now you can't magic up something out of nothing. Before Rashford how many 18 year olds from the United academy have nailed down a first team spot over the last 10 years, it won't be many.
Foden is 18, I could understand the questions of the manager if he was 21 but to me he seems to be developing him in the right way.
Fair points. Rafael is one off the top of my head who was 18 who came through and played quite a bit.
I agree stuff takes time as well. I just think people got a bit frustrated as City were talking up the academy and so far arguably the best player to come from it (Sancho) isn't even at the club.
I just think he's clearly a talented player, some City fans also use him as an example of a player who has broken through when he clearly hasn't yet (not saying you here by the way) and whilst I can't see the problem with him not playing vs. Burton I equally can't see why he can't start a few Premier League games at the same time? He's started 0 this season and only seems to come on when the game is pretty much over. Part of developing a player is surely giving them some games under some kind of pressure?
Look at his games this season in the prem:
City 6-1 Huddersfield. He came on in the last 10 mins when it was 5-1
Cardiff 0-5 City. He came on in the last 20 mins when it was 4-0
City 2-0 Brighton. He came on with 2mins left at 2-0
Man City 5-0 Burnley. He came on with 15mins left at 3-0
Man City 6-1 Southampton. He came on with 20mins left at 5-1
Man City 3-1 Man Utd. He came on and I'm sure 2 seconds later it was full time
West Ham 0-4 Man City. He came on with 15mins left at 3-0
Chelsea 2-0 Man City. He came on at 6mins left 2-0 down.
I'm not suggesting he should start and play 90mins of every game, not at all. But he clearly has talent. To me that just isn't great management, he's being brought on when games are dead in the water or he starts dead rubber games. Surely he could of started 1 or 2 of them? I doubt there's of been a 5 goal swing in the Huddersfield or Southampton games if he started for example. It just shows a bit of confidence in a player. People must look at that and it shows he's only playing when they can't lose (or win in the case of the Chelsea game.)
I'd still say 90 mins for an 18 year old who's not fully developed physically never mind mentally is ok, he's also played another 4 90 min games this season, next season when he's 19 I'd say you probably have a point but for me he's coming along nicely and appears happy with the progress he's making. Centre mid for an 18 year old is a tougher position than out on the wing, I really don't see what the issue is with his minutes at the moment
Maybe not 90 minutes fair enough but he could of started 1 or 2 of them. When the game is 0-0 and there's something to play for, the teams City have steamrolled this season he could of started a couple and I'm sure they'd still of won and surely it'a bit better than just making cameos when the game is already 4-0 etc.
City of course have the luxury of playing him like they do unlike in previous years. I don't particularly have an issue with it as such more that I think it'd be good for him if he got a few minutes when the fixture is meaningful.
I hope he does make it. He used to live a few minutes away from me (his parents are still there I think) and a few mates brothers know him he's meant to be a nice guy and is a massive City fan so be nice. Suppose we'll see in the next few years.
I have only seen one video so far. From what i saw, he reminds me of the young Özil but with more dynamic. A very interesting player to watch! I also read, that Pep wants him to stay at ManCity. I can imagine Peps joy for this player.
If he isn't in the first team plans for next season then he should go.
It's pretty clear why. He's only 18 y.o. and City are fighting a top Liverpool team for the title.
Do you know how old the likes of Xavi, Iniesta and Scholes were when they had their first league start at Barca and United respectively? Foden should be compared to midfielders, not to wingers like Sancho.
At Foden's age Scholes didn't have a sinlge app for the first team. Foden has had 20+ apps for City from which 8-9 full games. He's well ahead of schedule when compared to all-time greats let alone to your ordinary talented English midfielder. If he still can't start league games when he is 20 y.o., then either he's been mismanaged or simply not good enough. But he is still 18. Frenkie De Jong was nobody when he was a year older than Foden. In Eredivisie!
If it wasn't for the Sancho thing Foden would be quietly playing in the reserves or on loan. I feel after Sancho City and Pep feel the need to make a point.
This and U17 world cup is also a factor for it.
As I said city fans know more than me so fair enough if that's case.
Don't quite get comparisons with other players who hadn't made their debut though at the same time? Foden has played games already so clearly Pep must see something there. My point was I thought it might be more beneficial to developments of players to play in s game under pressure rather than come on when 5-1 up. City beat Huddersfield 6-1 and he came on for 15 minutes. If they started him would the score line be any different? Maybe but they'd still of win the game.
I don't have a problem with him as a player I hope he makes it and Pep and City fans know more about him than me. I'm not expecting him to start Vs United but I don't see the huge problem with him starting a couple of games.
I don't know much about him and I don't care about his career either as I don't support England. It's easy to see though that midfielders are less likely to be good enough to start for top teams at the age of 18 and this isn't necessarily bad for their career as the examples with Xavi, Iniesta, Scholes and now de Jong show. This notion that a teen has to play regularly in order to become a good player is highly dubious. Scholes started to play for us shortly before he turned 20 and became an exceptional player. If you are good enough, you are good enough to make it. Whether Foden is a real talent or more hype than substance I don't know, time will tell I guess.
TBF, De Jong was playing in the 2nd division of the Eredevisie with Ajax's B team.
It's probably because we haven't blowing smoke up everybody's ass about the money we've pumped into our youth system to dominate Manchester or whatever nonsense City's PR team has put out there about their academy. In fact over the last few years we've seen more than a few media pieces painting the disparity of our academy to City's as some end times scenario where we will never produce anything of worth because of all the talent they're bound to hoover up.
Meanwhile in reality Marcus Rashford has gone from the academy into the first team. Scott McTominay has had an opportunity to establish himself. Lingard has also gone into the first team, albeit after bouncing around on a few loans. Players like Cleverley, Fletcher, Welbeck, Januzaj, etc. have had the opportunity in the first team to establish themselves before ultimately being sold out.
City aren't even giving their academy players a chance. Ever. Not at 18, 21, 23, etc. This is despite all the money and hype over their academy and prospects like Sancho (doing pretty well at Dortmund, eh?), Diaz (at Madrid), and Foden.
He had only 4 league apps for Ajax's first team season 16/17 when he was 19 y.o.
What on earth are you gibbering on about, you giddy flid?
My bad, for some reason I was taking a game as 60 minutes for god knows why. He'll still play 15 or so games for the season.
In fairness we've had a couple of nice draws but can only beat whats in front of us I suppose.
Let's put "15 games" into quotations. 4 of the matches so far he was subbed in during added time an got 1-2 minutes.
I'm not on here to criticize his "absent" of first team football, I just didn't agree with your arguements for why he didn't start. On the face of it you'd want him to start that match as 90 minutes against Rotherham followed by 90 minutes against Burton when he's a young and fresh player is not a hard task in such dominating games where they are easier than a single training session from Pep as I can imagine they are.
The reason why he didn't start is simple. City are competing on 4 fronts so they want all of their first team as sharp as possible. Pep started De Bruyne, Gündogan and David Silva; 3 players that have recently come from injuries and need match fitness for later games. Generally ahead of Foden in the pecking order you can add Mahrez, Bernardo Silva, Fernandinho and even possibly Zinchenko and Delph who are both midfielders. That's at least 6 players. I would have thought that had he only had 1-2 midfielders coming back from injuries Foden would have started both matches but the other needed the game time and that's more important for this season. Also, he's just 18. I think it's ludicrous to demand that an 18 year old player starts a football match for one of the best teams in the world, never mind a team that has used a lot of money to find the players to play his exact position.
When next season starts he will have just have turned 19 and that's already a massive difference. I think that's the season where people can clamour about him being in the squad or not because he's a talented footballer, will be in the squad for the 3rd season in a row and other teams will be sniffing around and ready to give him football if he doesn't play then. However unlike Diaz, Foden is born in Manchester, is a boyhood fan of the club and has been there since he was 8. He's not going anywhere but on a loan (maybe). Media and people in England just go abit overboard everytime an English talent comes through that they foresee as being a starter for England for 10 years.
I hope your glibness comforts you as you contemplate the reputation laundering plaything for a totalitarian regime your club has become.
Great potential imo, part of the first team, slowly getting game time and learning from world class players and staff. What sets him apart is his focus and desire to keep learning. One step at the time and he will keep developing. I hope once he is ready he will get a callup for the english national team. No need to rush things though
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