Pogba on the left

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by MyOnlySolskjaer, Jan 1, 2018.

  1. Feb 7, 2018

    Nikelesh Reddy Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Messages:
    965
    Or play Fellaini or McTominay as a RCM...But we can't keep playing Pogba in a 2 man midfield,we aren't getting the best out of him...There's talk about us signing Vidal in the summer,I reckon he would be just perfect for us....
  2. Feb 7, 2018

    Damien Self-Aware RedCafe Database (and Admin) Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    79,245
    Yeah, I think in the summer we'll buy another starting midfielder and line up like this:

    Alexis Lukaku Lingard/Mata
    Pogba NewCM
    Matic​
  3. Feb 7, 2018

    Android1974 Incredibly anal about player positions in lineups City Lover

    Joined:
    May 24, 2016
    Messages:
    8,133
    I really think Mourinho's convinced Pogba can be a better player there, something almost no one believes. Maybe he feels he can sacrifice a bit of Pogba's attacking flow, even more now with Sánchez on the team, for his defensive stability. But I agree it hasn't worked yet at all. In part, as I said many times, due to the way he sees him playing right of Matić. Pogba, still in a midfield two, but on the leftcenter, like many here still believe he ever plays, could work.
  4. Feb 7, 2018

    Android1974 Incredibly anal about player positions in lineups City Lover

    Joined:
    May 24, 2016
    Messages:
    8,133
    People tend to forget this means sacrificing an attacking player. That was why I was so enthused with the game Lingard had as #8.
  5. Feb 7, 2018

    Walters_19_MuFc Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    15,355
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Thing is, Herrera had a decent enough game vs Everton. Actually, we had a fantastic balance to our team. Unfortunately, Herrera didn't start the following league game for whatever reason.
  6. Feb 7, 2018

    Android1974 Incredibly anal about player positions in lineups City Lover

    Joined:
    May 24, 2016
    Messages:
    8,133
    Cause Lingard's #10. Anyhow, Pogba had two assists that game.
  7. Feb 7, 2018

    youngrell Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2016
    Messages:
    522
    Location:
    South Wales
    On the flip side, would you expect Matic to be as effective in an advanced playmaker role?

    What everyone is saying is right, we need to give Pogba the absolute best platform possible for him to go out and play his game. Burdening him with too much defensive responsibilities doesn't do that nor does it benefit the team as a whole.
  8. Feb 7, 2018

    Android1974 Incredibly anal about player positions in lineups City Lover

    Joined:
    May 24, 2016
    Messages:
    8,133
    Actually, even in a midfield two, Matić has more to offer attackingly than he's doing right now because he has to cover constantly for Pogba's advances. I suppose Mourinho would prefer the two to share defensive and attacking responsibilities.
  9. Feb 7, 2018

    Walters_19_MuFc Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    15,355
    Location:
    Birmingham
    But we stuck to a 433 for the next few games, where Lingard and Pogba played as an 8, with Matic holding. Despite us looking dangerous going forward, we looked very light defensively. Herrera, as I said, provided that balance.
  10. Feb 7, 2018

    IrishRedDevil Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,942
    Location:
    N.Ireland
    Extremely harsh on Martial, who has just won his third player of the month this season and is obviously in very good form.
  11. Feb 7, 2018

    Android1974 Incredibly anal about player positions in lineups City Lover

    Joined:
    May 24, 2016
    Messages:
    8,133
    I don't remember us being light defensively against Burnley, on the contrary, I though Lingard as #8 didn't work that well attackingly. Herrera provides balance, sure, and even the short passing we want to see, but against weak opposition or at home, Mourinho might feel he can be more brave, but he hasn't found the balance.
  12. Feb 7, 2018

    Damien Self-Aware RedCafe Database (and Admin) Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    79,245
    Lukaku came back from injury and we didn't need three midfielders for Stoke at home.

    I'll be surprised if he starts against Newcastle. The signing of Alexis followed by Martial's performance against Spurs has pretty much put him back on the bench. Obviously by next season he might have fought his way back into the starting lineup but for now I think Lingard or Mata is preferred.
  13. Feb 7, 2018

    Walters_19_MuFc Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    15,355
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Well, in a proper double pivot, that's what you should expect, hence the name pivot.

    If one midfielders goes forward, the other stays back and vice versa.

    Bakayoko - Fabinho
    Martinez - Schweinsteiger
    Wanyama - Schneiderlin
    Drinkwater - Kante
    Dembele - Dier

    Few double pivots off the top of my head that were/are pretty solid together.

    Thing is, as you said, only one stays forward and one stays back when Matic and Pogba plays. It's not ideal.

    If we're to have any success with a 4231, we need two players in midfield who are very defensively sound, and can alternate going forward.

    Talks of Jorginho, but would he compliment Matic? He's a player who likes to hold and dictate play. More suited to a 433.

    Maybe Fabinho from Monaco. Has spoken about his desire to leave Monaco for a new challenge.

    All round midfielder, with fantastic defensive qualities. Very mobile too, despite his big frame.

    Matic - Fabinho

    Obviously, this all depends on if Mourinho sticks to his favoured 4231 next season.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  14. Feb 7, 2018

    IrishRedDevil Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,942
    Location:
    N.Ireland
    A player who has been playing very well on the left and Jose decides to randomly switch him to the right hand side in a big away game v Spurs. The blame for that is purely on Jose.

    Stick Martial on the left and he will continue to deliver very good performances, the way he has been all season.

    Anyway one bad performance doesn't mean the bench, as the entire team was terrible v Spurs. Shall we bench them all?
  15. Feb 7, 2018

    Damien Self-Aware RedCafe Database (and Admin) Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    79,245
    I think all signs point to Alexis staying on the left. For Martial to get back in he'll need to rework himself as a right winger.
  16. Feb 7, 2018

    Walters_19_MuFc Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    15,355
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Hoping that doesn't happen. Or before Jose does that, I'm hoping he tries Alexis on the right first, with Martial on the left.
  17. Feb 7, 2018

    SS Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,679
    To be fair, the only game they've properly played together in was the Spurs game. Jose could still change things up.
  18. Feb 7, 2018

    IrishRedDevil Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,942
    Location:
    N.Ireland
    All the signs point to Pogba not being able to play in a midfield 2, as seen v Spurs. Let's persist with McTominay and keep Pogba on the bench long term.
    I guess Jose is not to blame for making players play in positions they can't play? I'm a big Jose fan btw, but the setup v Spurs was totally wrong and should not be used as a measuring stick for Martial.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  19. Feb 7, 2018

    Android1974 Incredibly anal about player positions in lineups City Lover

    Joined:
    May 24, 2016
    Messages:
    8,133
    Jorginho seems like a good substitute for Carrick. And, if Fellaini actually leaves and A.Pereira is discarded, we might go for two midfielders instead of just one big name.

    I don't believe Mourinho's really interested in Fabinho, otherwise we would have got him already, through his connections.

    Sorry, but do you believe Mourinho wants Pogba to play regularly as #10 in 4-2-3-1? This manager's not crazy enough to stick for a system his best player doesn't fit.
  20. Feb 7, 2018

    Android1974 Incredibly anal about player positions in lineups City Lover

    Joined:
    May 24, 2016
    Messages:
    8,133
    He had already tried it against City at home, another big game.
  21. Feb 7, 2018

    Walters_19_MuFc Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    15,355
    Location:
    Birmingham
    To be honest, I don't know what Jose wants to do now. All I know is that he played a 4231 for the majority last season and so far this season.
  22. Feb 7, 2018

    Android1974 Incredibly anal about player positions in lineups City Lover

    Joined:
    May 24, 2016
    Messages:
    8,133
    Pogba on the left doesn't necessarily mean a midfield three. Contrary to his fancy for wrong footed wingers, Mourinho seems to be completely certain that, in a midfield two, midfielders should play with their best foot to the outside, specially Matić left foot to the leftcenter of midfield, forcing Pogba's to the right. I'm almost saying all this problem might not happen if Matić wasn't left footed.

    In a midfield two with Herrera, for instance, Pogba plays left, like he did with Derby.
  23. Feb 8, 2018

    Nikelesh Reddy Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Messages:
    965
    I think the new midfielder will be Vidal.He will be 31 this summer,but he's no Schweinsteiger.Hes remarkably fit and he has at least another 2-3 years left at the highest level....Plus he won't cost more than 30 million cause he has just 1 year left on his contract,and Bayern have apparently zeroed in on his successor.Pogba would probably be delighted to link up with Vidal again...
  24. Feb 8, 2018

    Lawman Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2006
    Messages:
    10,639
    Location:
    Scotland
    Agree totally
  25. Feb 8, 2018

    downunder red New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Messages:
    101
    Location:
    the land of oz
    How hard is it. Have Matic and someone like { McTominay Herrara Carrick } with Pogba in front. With the forwards we've got in front we'll kick any ones backside.
  26. Feb 8, 2018

    gerdm07 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    911
    I don't understand the 3 midfielders because most of you show something like this

    Pogba.....Herrera/McT
    .........Matic

    What you are really saying, though, is that Herrera/McT must be defensive so Pogba can roam. In other words have two DMs and let Pogba roam on the left. How does this provide balance though? Are you saying Matic and the other midfield will cover for Pogba on the left? So Matic should be careful about going towards the right because then he can't cover for Pogba if the ball is switched quickly. And also Herrera can't roam to far forward because he has to be available to cover for Pogba. How does this work? Where is the balance?

    If you want to play two DMs, then play two DMs:

    ...........S
    LW.....Pogba......RW
    ....Matic......Herrera/McT
  27. Feb 8, 2018

    Android1974 Incredibly anal about player positions in lineups City Lover

    Joined:
    May 24, 2016
    Messages:
    8,133
    Both are presupposing Pogba would be better as #10 than he is #8 in the current 4-2-3-1, which is something I very much doubt. Besides, Herrera against Everton provided a lot of balance and contributed a lot to the slick short passing we showed then.
  28. Feb 9, 2018

    Konimey New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    Messages:
    130
    Location:
    India
    Yes it is very similar to 4-3-3, the major difference being having 2 up top instead of 1 up top with 2 on either sides, which would create openings on the wings allowing our fullbacks to bomb forward and put crosses in. 2 up top would also help keep both the CBs busy making space for the AM to dictate play in the space between the defense and mid. Plus Pogba would be playing in his best position.
  29. Feb 9, 2018

    Jig1234 Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2015
    Messages:
    1,168
    Location:
    England, UK


    Probably the most depressing thing I've ever read. 'Tactical system doesn't matter' Why did Pogba look so much better for Juventus?

    Why did I go to the game at Wembley to see us get overrun by Spurs? - Pogba can't play in a two. Seems such a bizarre oversight for someone with so much experience as a manager.

    Pogba is being limited by Mourinho and his comment about Tactical systems is infuriating. It suggests we might not see 4-3-3 at Utd any time soon.

    I was at the game at Wembley and I could not understand why he moved Martial to the right to accommodate Sanchez. I still don't understand what system he is trying to put forward. In big matches it looks disjointed and slow. Spurs exposed that.

    If we keep going with Pogba-Matic vs LFC, CFC etc.. we won't win, especially away from home. Pogba does not have the discipline.
  30. Feb 9, 2018

    NinjaFletch Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Messages:
    15,857
    You're projecting an awful lot onto those quotes that he hasn't said.
  31. Feb 9, 2018

    Jig1234 Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2015
    Messages:
    1,168
    Location:
    England, UK
    Please elaborate.
  32. Feb 9, 2018

    James Peril Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,267
    I am so tired of this gospel that "Pogba did so much better for Juventus". First of all; Juventus used to play in a shitty league where they walked pretty much every game, every year. It's easy to play well in a midfield of Pirlo and Vidal when all teams are inferior to your own. Furthermore, I don't think many on here have seen enough Juventus-game to really comment on it - and I mean like 15+ league games each season. We can also pick numerous games where Pogba was the absolute best player on the pitch since he arrived last season, starting with the very first against Southampton at Old Trafford. Pogba is great, dominates several games even in a midfield-2 due to his physique and passing, shielding skills, but just like Iniesta, Xavi et al he isn't a defensive-minded player. At all.
  33. Feb 9, 2018

    hellohello Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Messages:
    1,166
    Supports:
    Tottenham
    Xavi and Iniesta along with many other players such as Scholes and Modric are defensive minded players in the sense that they are disciplined and tactically aware. I'm not saying that Pogba is not because that's not my place, but both Xavi and Iniesta are/were good at tracking runners and covering the spaces when their team is out of possession.
  34. Feb 9, 2018

    NinjaFletch Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Messages:
    15,857
    Full quotes from the BBC:

    "For me Paul is a midfield player. He’s not a left back, he’s not a striker. When people ask his best position: he’s a midfield player. It depends on the tactical system but he will always be a midfielder.

    "Then with so many opinions, and we are in a world of opinions, people can get confused. There is no confusion between me and Paul. It’s difficult to play a midfielder with more potential than Paul."

    How you've gone from that to 'Mourinho will never play Pogba in a three and we'll always lose playing Pogba in a two' I don't really know. Mourinho has stated that Pogba's exact role would depend on the tactical formation, but that he would always play in midfield. How is that antithetical to some fans desire to see him play in a midfield (which last time I checked was where midfielders tend to play) three? It puts to bed some of the theories that this thread is putting forward to play him as a left winger, but very few people are asking for that.
  35. Feb 9, 2018

    diplomat Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Messages:
    638
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    The fact that Mourinho spoke so extensively on what a "box to box" midfielder is and how the opinions of analysts, agents and family members affect these perceptions, to me it seemed as a little bit of criticism between the lines towards Pogba.

    Maybe Jose really believes and wants Pogba to play in a midfield two, in order to allow us more options in attack.
  36. Feb 9, 2018

    el3mel Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    20,615
    Location:
    Egypt
    Basically Mourinho is saying Pogba will play as a midfielder in different types of formations and he has to adapt to each formation being 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3.

    TBF, even if he plays in 4-3-3 formation he'll still need to do some defensive work. I have never seen a midfielder that does nothing when the ball is lost like what people want Pogba to be! If we don't need him to defend at all, it's better then to play him as a number 10 not 8 anymore.
  37. Feb 9, 2018

    ZenMaster Coltrane New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2016
    Messages:
    117
    I don't think Mourinho is the man to unlock this 'potential'. Mourinho gets mired in his game to game tactics, sacrificing the enormous benefits that are garnered from a cohesive attacking system that is drilled and developed over time. I just don't think he's that kind of architect, even if he is limited by the personnel at the moment. Even then, I do not trust him to identify the signings necessary to construct a fluid attack. His philosophy is almost entirely predicated (especially vs big teams) on negating the strengths of the opponent, not playing to the attacking strengths of his players.

    He seemingly spends most of his energy attempting to reprogram the minds of his players. It seems as though there's always some player in the midst of going through his mental boot camp. The team's top requirements are a top class ball playing CB and a CM. The 2 man deep pivot needs to go. The tempo out from the back is being severely restricted by a dearth of on the ball ability amongst the back line.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2018
  38. Feb 9, 2018

    NinjaFletch Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Messages:
    15,857
    I do think that people gloss over two issues with the narrative that they push r.e. Pogba. Firstly the 'he was better for Juventus in a three' simply has to be being pushed by posters who don't watch Juventus regularly; it's repeated far too often for it to be only the preserve of a small subsection of United fans who regularly watch Juventus. There may be a kernel of truth there, but it is being repeated by people who have no idea whether that's true or not.

    Secondly, the idea that the 3 is a magical solution that will solve all the issues overlooks that Pogba is a human not a footballing robot who could only possibly be limited by being played in the 'wrong' position. In a huge portion of our games I see no sense for us playing two players to cover the defensive duties to 'free Pogba up' because he doesn't have many of them to perform anyway; it's just a waste of a body that could see us play another attacker. In those games Pogba's failure to dominate in a two may be more 'Pogba's failure to dominate'. Sure in games against equals or better teams I don't think Pogba makes sense in a two, but we have played a three at times in those games anyway and Pogba has yet to put in a performance to suggest that he's more able to influence those games positively playing in a three than in a two; if anything it seems more about hiding his weakness than amplifying his strength.
  39. Feb 9, 2018

    Stacks Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Messages:
    4,615
    Location:
    Fresh outta jail
    A juve fan alluded to this when he was being criticised last season, when his stats were basically the same as Juve in terms of output. The fan said that in 40 odd games, he'd have 10 games where he looked the best player on the park, 10 where he was woeful, 20-25 where he was largely indifferent but would make a few positive actions e.g. assist/goal/couple good chances created.
  40. Feb 9, 2018

    lsd Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2016
    Messages:
    1,716

    Seemed more he was criticising Giggs for not knowing box to box means both boxes