Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Damien, Dec 18, 2018.
Ole aside, who would you pick to manage the club?
I've already addressed your criticism of Marco Rose in my earlier posts. Even if I wasn't addressing you directly.
Just wanted to make sure, you were one of the many fans, with the defeatist attitude regarding our top 4 hopes.
And do you feel better about yourself now that you got that confirmed? Besides the word you are looking for is realistic. Nothing Chelsea have done so far suggests they are going to drop more than 8 points while we keep on winning every game. Just one draw from us combined with a Chelsea win and the gap would be 10. Because they waited to long to sack Jose we have basically put ourselves in a position where margin for error is almost non existable. You might call this a "defeatist attitude" But I call it logical thinking. It is not mathematically over yet and anything can happen but it is very unrealistic to expect it to happen. And besides, Ole wasn't even brought in with an expectation to deliver top 4, he was brought in to bring back joy and life to a depressing and dying club.
Chelsea and Tottenham are playing in top gear right now, they're both very much beatable on the day, they don't have another level to go to like Liverpool and City. Expect them to drop way more points than that.
A 8 point lead can be overturned by this group of players, 'that's realistic'. We've over turned bigger deficits before, chasing high flying Newcastle and Arsenal. Arsenal have also beaten us to a title after being 12 points behind. Our attack is better than Chelsea's IMO. Chelsea still need to come to OT too.
Ole was brought in due to our last manager doing a terrible job. No one at the club has given up on top 4, and that includes Ole. Ole doesn't have a defeatist mentality, and his playing career is a testament to that.
Chelsea have no striker, we have depth better than Chelsea, and I argue a better midfield. Jose has knee capped us with his latest third season meltdown, which started in February 2018, where Ole never had the chance to play any sides twice, so hes left to play the tortoise and the hare
Honestly I don't even know why you decided to take the thread of topic. I thought this was a thread do discuss our next managerial candidates, no? Let's agree to stick to that discussion and leave the discussion about our top 4 chances to the top 4 thread.
Anyone posted this yet?
I posted the MEN article yesterday..
Sorry, just realised, I am a bit behind on this
No worries mate, I guess it'll save people time scrolling back, especially the ones that haven't come across the article yet.
Because poch and zidane are world class managers, who will have other high paying offers whilst Ole wont. Its basic supply and demand.
Either way, a more thorough look can be taken at the end of the season.
Tuchel is not available and won't be because he is doing a good job with PSG. I don't think he would be sacked even if PSG went out to us in the CL, they think his style of football is good and would want to give him time.
Apart from Pochettino, who is the lowest risk manager among those, there is no-one who isn't a risk. You are saying Marco Rose is a risk, but ignoring the risks Zidane brings. You say he adapts to various scenarios? All those scenarios involved having world class players at his disposal. Madrid almost manage themselves, bar this season when they have been in decline, or when they get mutinous over a manager like Benitez. I'm not downplaying Zidane's achievements, but he has only proven that he, like Guardiola, requires a top class squad to win things -- he has not yet proven himself with a middling squad like ours.
And did you see Real's style of play in their league games during Zidane's third season? It was so boring that it almost came close to Mourinho ball. Real merely ground out wins to keep themselves in a decent position. If that's the case with Real, imagine Zidane in low moments with our squad. After seeing the highs under Ole, it would be a shame if turgid football returned.
Zidane is a good manager but he comes with as much risk as Rose. He's also not the acme of attacking managers either, I'd actually class him as a pragmatist.
Regarding top class players, you are overrating the manager's name a bit. Our club's name can still attract players. We are not going to sign Neymar or Messi, but we can certainly attract players like Koulibaly in clubs like Napoli with Ole or Rose in charge. That would be enough.
I'd be really disappointed if we signed someone like Simeone, Allegiri, or Conte, eventhough they are very accomplished managers. We've had 3 pragmatic managers in a row and all have been disastorious. Need someone who will play attacking and exciting football, at least for the most part. I'm for Ole, Zidane, Poch, Rose, someone like that.
I'm not too worried about the squad building aspect from the manager's perspective if we really do hire a DOF. What I like most about Ole through 3 matches, is he's getting the most out of an inheirtied squad that was woefully underperforming. He's so far proven that he can take what is given to him (top level footballers, unlike at Cardiff) and get them to play at a high level. I don't think his ego is too big to work with a DOF.
Poch is still my first choice as of today. But I'm leaning more and more toward Ole. Poch has done a good job at Spurs, but nothing revolutionary. I like him, but as more time goes by I'm not sure he's really all that better of an option than Ole.
Zidane I like as well, but get the feeling he'd be another short appointment and be out the door after 3 years. Which is fine if we win trophies, but I'd like to have a longer commitment even if that isn't all that popular these days in football.
The Rose stories seem to be picking up some traction.
Other than the sun and men article, anywhere else?
It's early days but I've been delighted with Ole's start - not just in terms of results and even performances, but in how he has so quickly ressurected the heartbeat and sense of joy throughout the club, seemingly from beyond the grave!
The fear is that he isn't tactically astute or experienced enough at the highest level. To be honest, I would happily take a year or two of this positive, risk taking, enjoyable Manchester United - even if it meant we were slightly outthought or outclassed at the very business end of league and European competition.
A couple of seasons like the last fortnight would be the perfect tonic to the malaise of the last 5 or 6 years. Let Ole bring the joy back and make this a football club good players want to come and enjoy football at again.
Let get back to being the Manchester United who play great football and let that lead to being the United who win trophies. If in time it becomes evident Solskjaer isn't the man to take that next step then we look at making a change, but when we have a man who clearly gets the club and the fans, let's not risk losing United all over again to gamble on someone who is "more likely to win".
I voted for Pochettino as I feel OGS will not be given the permanent job. Don't know what the future holds but the positivity and change of style that he has bought is quite refreshing and enjoyable and yes, I'm willing to ride this wave long term, even if we slip once in a while. I don't know much about Rose and just started to read about him. Can we get Pochettino? This is a big question mark.
Can’t understand how people are down playing a manger like Rose. People keep banging on about how he would manage high profile players etc, completely missing the point. We need to get rid of these big egos. We at Manchester United have never really successfully bought in big players. Our most successful players are the ones we make into stars. A club who gives youth a chance. A club who plays attacking football. A club who is used to winning.
Now find a manager who fits that bill and you have your short list of managers.
I read it yesterday on F365 and then seen some links on here. The story I read was that he's on a 5 man shortlist.
That's the Sun article rehashed by F365. To my knowledge, F365 isn't big on exclusives, merely regurgitates the same thing found elsewhere and publishes fan mail as well.
At this point, I would wager a guess that the "five candidates list" is correct, but in all likelihood, no decision has been taken and even keeping Ole on is an option.
8 games with 1 goal - yes. 4x Champions league (2 vs. Utd) and 4x league (vs. Roma and Inter who both want to qualify for CL and Torino + Genua). Overall 38 goals in 19 games (average 2 per game) in a defence league.
Seria A is not like La Liga where the smaller teams get slaugthered close to the 2 digit figures.
Also putting LvG and Mourinho in 1 sentence if they were the same type of coach only shows one thing -> that YOU sir should reflect more about the game and it's finesse.
LvG has possesion oriented game ("if the opponent doesn't have the ball he can't score") Mourinho defence over anything. The board went in 2 different directions/tried different strategies.
Furthermore Mourinho wasn't a mistake! Just his methods doesn't work for more than 2 years as it appears.
The point is not whether Allegri, Mourinho and LvG have similar styles. Yes, they are vastly different. But all 3 of them are not as exciting as the truly attacking coaches mentioned.
The fact is, they are pragmatic managers. Number of goals scored does not imply attacking football, if you remember Mourinho's 4-0s where we played shite but scored 4 a game. Its' the use of high energy press, quick one touch passes, winning the ball high up the pitch, etc that define the type of football our support is craving for. And I am not sure Allegri can provide that with consistency.
Allegri is a fine manager and could even adapt to our demands maybe, but for now, I am not interested in giving a chance to another pragmatic manager even if it means we will win the league. The last 4 years have scarred us too much with the soporific football on display.
Watching Chelsea they leave a lot to be desired, not very impressive at all. Unfortunately though I think we have too much catching up to do.
Of course he would, but I don't think we're appointing someone because of how much we have to pay him.
Keep the faith! We'll catch them if we manage to take some points off the top 4 during the run in. Also, my main reason for thinking we will is that Sarri doesn't rotate his squad. He sticks with the same 13 players or so all season and as someone who isn't used to the PL, this will be the reason for their end of season slump.
Is our support really craving that though? Is that because City and Liverpool is playing that way? I don't see high pressing as anything neccessary for success. I don't think anyone would complain if Allegri came and turned us in to contenders.
You know, before making statements like this you should at least bother to read the post properly. Could you highlight where I said LVG and Mourinho was the same tactically? All I said was that the both of them were mistakes due to having tactics that was destined to never suceed at this club.
I don't know much about him interesting mate: https://www.esdfanalysis.com/manager-analysis/marco-rose-line-become-next-bundesligas-great-manager/
Yes that is what fans are craving after the turgid football we've watched the last few years. We want a modern attacking manager. You've already seen how high pressing can contribute to our attack as we win the ball back in a dangerous area of the pitch.
I didn't say that either. So if you criticise me for not reading carefully make sure you do before...
You said the board would make the same mistake. First of all Mourinho wasn't a mistake LvG either (arguably). Both won titles but the crux is that both weren't able to meet the expectations which are still high after the golden years of SAF.
I even wouldn't call Moyes a mistake -> he was the one to sacrifise simply.
So due you only destructivly criticise offer me some other solutions which are available. (I know defacto Allegri is currently not available but there were rumours that he wanted to leave the club anyway).
Who isn't these days? Every coach including Klopp Guardiola etc. want to build the football from a solid defence. Don't get me wrong not everyone let a solid 6-defence chain play but in professional football on high level there is nothing else you can do.
You did though, the exact thing I highlighted. And that thing you said about Moyes is 10/10 logic. What are you talking about when you say "Solutions" If you mean managers I have already mentioned candidates on multiple occassions in this thread.
If Ole keeps going the way he has started then would love him to be given a crack at it long term. Big tests to come against the big boys but so far so good.
Always like that Jardim and the work he done at Monaco but if he was going to be appointed, I think he would have been immediately, would be happy with Poch in the summer but I don't want Zidane anywhere near the club.
Usually I am not looking through the 3 pages between the alert and the last post. If you want to talk with me about that then in the post you answer to me!
Not being funny but how many of those pining for Marco Rose have actually seen more than a couple of Salzburg games, if any? It feels an awful lot like people trying to predict the next big name manager rather than what we actually need in the here and now.
Well besides watching last years EL, this years EL watch has been even better. Obviously, more notice has been taken this year, as it proves last year wasn’t a fluke. It’s kind of how it works.
Oh, OGS has overtaken Zidane in the polls.
At this moment, I’ve still stuck with Pochettino but may change my vote to Ole once the outcome of the Spurs and February fixtures against PSG & Liverpool have been decided. From there will either change my vote to Ole or stick with Poch.
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