Discussion in 'Transfer Forum' started by luke511, Oct 28, 2018.
We might not have got Lewandowski, but the point was, we didn't even attempt to.
Add to it the fact that we''d need way more than 70m to land him
I would prefer a 433 with forwards more than dedicated strikers and wingers. In that logic and considering that we aren't a great proposition for in form players in ideal situations, I would look at players like Angel Correa, Pépé, Ben Yedder on top of maybe trying a more flashy player like Dybala. Selling Lukaku and Martial should be seriously considered.
We really shouldn't try for someone like Dybala IMO, we are not good at passing or moving the ball quickly and we will rely on long balls a lot going by how OGS has setup our side so far. Plus we never seem to do well with galacticos.
And add the fact that he'd never consider us in our current state.
I can really agree with that logic because we should go in the direction of being good at passing and moving the ball quickly. There is no point to sign anyone if we follow your logic, we are bad at pretty much everything.
Martial should be our no.9 imo. Id sign Bergwijn/Pepe and James and deploy Rashford as a winger, gives us an inexpensive solution and lots of options.
Yes, the club lacks a long-term vision of recruitment and how the team should play. But RvP vs Lewandowski is not a good example of that mindset - if Fergie had stayed, we would have got at least two more years of title-winning quality from RvP, which is a fair return on what we paid for him.
This is why I feel opportunist journalists like Cory should be called out; what he is saying is just speculation wrapped as insight. The crux of his argument is sound, but the examples he uses do not serve it.
Isn't Jovic done deal with RM? We never get players like him or De Ligt. We'll end up with that Pepe guy, or Dembele (Lyon) because more mediocre and liability players are exactly what we need. I'd rather if we play with youngsters team and fight and get relegated than watch Lukaku, Pogba, Young, Sanchez, Martial, Fred etc
I’ve just as much dislike of Lukaku as the next person due to his poor touch, his inability to hold the ball up, his shocking aerial ability... however, to single him and Martial our are not right. The whole team is culpable at this point and trying to identify individuals is nigh impossible because everyone is underperforming. Including rashford, Lingard, mata... everyone!
If I had to guess, it’s the lack of cohesion and work rate in the middle that is affecting the front line.
But what is affecting the midfield?... many signs and people are pointing at Pogba being a major influencing factor - towards the negative.
I think with a better midfield, there is still a tiny chance to see Lukaku flourish and start contributing some goals.
Of course, the right wing and right/wing back needs o be sorted as well, and that might provide some decent balls into the box as well.
Bottom line, I think considering our situation, Lukaku could get one more year. Sanchez OTOH, he realllly needs to go. It’s so obvious he’s done.
Get Werner in. 40m
We already have young strikers like Rashford, Greenwood and Martial. So, why not Lewandowski to replace Lukaku?
Why not Vardy?
Diogo Jota for me. Young, fast, determined, good at picking out a teammate in a good position and can score goals. He seems a good fit for an attack that presses
We won’t buy a striker.
Sebastien Haller all the way. Seen a lot of Frankfurt fans who rate him higher than Jovic. Their form has dropped a lot since his injury. He's a well rounded player - fast, strong, great in build up play and a decent finisher. Very unselfish but has a consistently good scoring rate at both Frankfurt and Utrecht. He's probably available for less than 40m. Meant to be a great guy too; would often chat to fans out and about in the city in Utrecht and Frankfurt.
Not Lewa please. Had enough of us spending huge wages on players past their best.
A new striker shouldn't be anywhere near the top of our shopping list this summer. With Rashford, Lukaku, Martial and Greenwood as our current options, we are well stacked for years to come. Even if Lukaku is sold I would love to see us go with Rashford as first choice and Martial/Greenwood as backup. Lingard is also an option as a false 9. I would rather bring in two new wingers, for instance Daniel James as backup LW and Sancho at RW. Release Mata and try to get rid of Alexis, and we will have the current front three options from left to right:
Martial (James) - Rashford (Greenwood) - Sancho (Lingard, Chong)
And who will score the goals?
Jovic is signing for Madrid.
I would prefer someone like Felix, if we play diamond formation, our strikers could improve their game. also, we could swap Icardi for Lukaku.
If we go into the season with Rashford and Lukaku as the two #9's we'll barely scrape top 6.
Martial and Rashford has scored 13 and 14 goals for us this season. With a more functional team behind them and better working conditions, both should be able to score 20 goals in a season. Sancho has scored 11 goals in 25 starts and provided a 14 assists, and would allow us to attack down both flanks. Throw in McTominay who provides a bigger threat than Herrera, bring in a RB that is able to cross and a CB that can handle the ball, and we should be fine.
We won't be fine.
Take the strikers for the teams above us:
Firminho (Mane seems to operate more centrally in his absence and shone)
Rashford is a lesser striker than all of them. Even Higuain. He has pace on Higuain and that's literally where it ends. Now look at Rashford compared to the teams that just finished below us:
What is most concerning with the above list, is Rashford is still a lesser player than them too. He's not that good, and if you are leading the line with him you won't "be fine". It would be equally daft to rely on the likes of Martial to have a blistering run in the side, given his 101 problems.
I’d take richarlison in a heartbeat
Can't disagree, I've always liked Martial's technical quality but his attitude is wearing thin, the idea that the midfield are to blame for how bang average him and Rashford are makes no sense, look at Liverpool, their midfield is all graft and devoid of craft, yet their forwards thrive anyway.
Rashford is ridiculously erratic and has far too much ego for his talent level, people get on to Pogba for his dallying in midfield but Rashford is the same up top, always thinking he has to do something that 20 year old Ronaldo would do, instead of playing within his limitations, I'm not even convinced he's a #9, his finishing has never been great bar the first few games where everything went right for him, he was never a top #9 prospect in the Academy, he played wide most of the time, most likely due to a mix of his erratic finishing and crap hold-up play.
@VP89 We will be 100% absolutely fine. A young trio of Martial, Rashford and Sancho are good enough to reach top 4 next season, and they may develop into a world class trio. We have tried to bring in players from the top of the PL top scorer list in Alexis and Lukaku, and look where we are today. Rashford is a better player than Vardy and Jimenes, and at the same level as Richarlison. We cannot do anything to match the attacking force of City and Liverpool in one summer, we need to develop over time. While I agree that Kane and Aubameyang are better than Rashford, the total attacking force of Rashford, Martial, Sancho and Pogba will be better than Arsenal and close to Tottenham.
Apart from Aguero and just about Kane all of those guys were doing nothing at 21 years old. I don’t know if you know this but players can get good if you develop them. Firmino and Mane were not half the players they are now when they joined Liverpool. Sterling and Salah went from decent wingers to world class players under their current managers.
Our problem is we keep wanting to spend 100m on players and never actually think about how to get the best out of them when they join. Our build up play is garbage, we play slow pondering football and barely create good chances and then you slaughter our striker for not converting the 1 good chance a game he gets? You know the conversion rate for most strikers is like 20%, you need to make 5 good chances for a striker to score not just 1
It wont, when you play a front 3 like that you need the off the ball movement of both wide players to be excellent, so there's strike 1 as Martial's movement is garbage. Strike 2 is your #9 needs to act as an attacking fulcrum for the 2 wide players, capable of holding the ball up and linkiing the play, Rashford can't do any of that. Third strike is that 2 of them are erratic kids who aren't ready to be the main men at a top 4 side, and the other has attitude issues and has not progressed at all in 4 seasons. I'll bet you now that if they are our starting 3 next season, or Lukaku is in there instead of one of them, we wont finish top 4.
@Devil may care So what do you suggest we do to solve this? Bring in Lewandowski and Bale just to make sure that we sustain our downfall?
Lewandowski would make sense yes, I certainly don't suggest going into the season with a teenage RW with one half good season under his belt, a striker who isn't a striker and LW who has a hugely questionable attitude, someone in that front 3 needs to be the proven piece to drag the rest with him, like Suarez did at Liverpool. Even with Mbappe who is the best young forward in the world, he still has 2 proven forwards with him to pick up the slack. You can't go into a season without a single proven forward, the 3 you are suggesting would barely sustain 6th.
It's a crazy situation but if we are looking at stop gap 'older' strikers he'd fit Ole's system pretty well. Much better than Lewa IMO (though I wish we'd signed him from Dortmund)
I don't want to take the twitter thread away from what it's used for - but what I will end with is, there is a hugely presumptious nature about how we treat Rashford. "He's better than the others at 21, so lets keep using him because that must mean he'd come good". No, that's not how it works.
Sure we develop players but they have to meet a minimum required standard to start week in week out and Rashford isn't even remotely close that standard. He's a squad player standard at best. Will he get better? Feck knows but he's not good enough to play week in week out next season.
While I agree that Lewandowski would be a fantastic striker short-term, we cannot spend 100 mill on a player that is older than Alexis Sanchez. The front 3 that I am suggesting will comfortably reach top 4 next season if we can keep Pogba and fix our defence by bringing in Koulibaly and Wan-Bissaka.
I agree with you to an extent but I think that if our midfield is more dynamic, our fullbacks are more dynamic and our defence is more solid then we will still have a good chance of making top4. We made a lot of silly mistakes this season and shipped too many goals.
But yeah a better striker would be nice
There's not enough in that front 3 no matter what you do to other parts of the team, and the players you are suggesting aren't compatible pieces for a front 3 as none of them are suited to the key central role.
The thing is that front 3 still wont get enough goals and the 3 players are not compatible, look at Liverpool's front 3, I think most would agree they weren't world class when Klopp got them but they have been developed as greater than the sum of their parts because they fit together well, and a key element to that is Firmino in that central role as a hub for the two wide forwards, Rashford can't play that role, he doesn't have the tools for it a, his spot should be competing with Martial for the LWF role and we need to bring in someone to be the central forward player no matter the system. On top of that Martial has not shown any improvement and his movement is so poor, our defense is bad without question but these forwards aren't good enough either IMO, they can't blame the other parts of the team for their poor performances week after week, for instance the midfield isn't creative enough, but at the same time the movement up top is crap and the midfield often have no one to play a pass to in that frontline.
IMO Sancho would massively improve our attack, even if he is a teenager. If we have the chance to sign him, we should go for it.
Remember that you didn't like Mane, you mentioned that he wasn't special and too erratic. So maybe there's a big chance we are letting pass another opportunity if we don't sign Sancho.
I agree with you about Lewandowski, he would make an instant impact. Unfortunately, I think he just wants a better contract with Bayern. Also, there are better options like Jovic who even if he is 21 years old, I think he could also make a difference in out attack.
If we don't sign a quality winger (or two), then, the diamond formation would be our best bet considering our current team. But that also depends if we are able to get a RB like Meunier/Cancelo, 2 midfielders and a CAM/SS like Dybala who is available.
I'm not against Sancho but him with Rashford and Martial wont work, it's the pieces of the jigsaw that don't fit that is the problem, we've been putting square pegs in round holes for too long and this would be another one, until we get a #9 that he can play off any wide attacker we buy is going to struggle.
I would love Jovic at United but it looks like Real Madrid already have the deal done, and sadly I don't think we'll address the striker situation, even if Lukaku goes, Ole's obssession with "Rashy" is going to become a huge issue for this team IMO and will probably cost Ole his job.
Right now the diamond remains our best bet as it maximizes Rashford's strengths and minimizes his weaknesses, and while we shouldn't be building around him, the fact we seem to be hopefully means Ole has at least realized he can't play as the #9 in a 4-3-3, but you're right that it requires the #10/false 9/SS buy to be on point, but Dybala is the only player of any quality we are linked to in that regard, the only other one is Bruno Fernandes who I just don't think is good enough.
If u gave me the choice, I'd dump Martial to fit Sancho. He's that good in the head.
Also, there are a lot of available midfielders (Rodri, Neves, Ndombele, Tielemans, Havertz Eriksen, etc). So, the diamond formation could be the best if we get 2 quality midfielders.
I think Werner and Mitrovic are interesting players we should be looking into. I know that they are two different strikers, but I think they could do well at United.
I haven't watched much of Werner, but with regards Mitrovic I see hidden potential.
In my opinion he would be more suited to play under Ole as a target man than Lukaku. Purely his technical ability is superior than Lukaku and that would help the players around him.
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