Premiership Referees & 'Respect': Do they deserve it?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by B Cantona, Apr 1, 2010.

  1. Apr 2, 2010
    #41

    Spammy Being watched; will learn to post in the correct f

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    Well, most ref's seem to enjoy the authority (every ref I've played with at county level and higher certainly has), which would mean they won't be afraid to impose it if any 'overpaid primadonnas' give them any shit.

    I would have the bottle to do it, because I consider myself to have a fairly well formed footballing brain. This, and common sense is what is lacking in every single prem ref. Not every player has a good footballing brain, but I expect ref's to have one.
  2. Apr 2, 2010
    #42

    The Hairdryer Crikey that stung

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    Doesn't really work like that mate.

    I thought the same thing myself before I started refereeing.

    Referring is a different art form. Requires a knowledge of the game for sure, but there's other attributes you need. Being authoritarian is one of them. If you don't have that you won't make it past an under 11's game. Anyone who thinks they can referee a game, be everyones mate, and keep everyone happy is kidding themselves.
  3. Apr 3, 2010
    #43

    Spammy Being watched; will learn to post in the correct f

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    I wasn't really criticizing their grasp on the game from an authoritarian stand point. More an understanding of the game kind of thing. Most refs on the continent seem to react like women, flashing the cards about knee jerk style, with glaring eyes, as if you've just shat in their man bag. It's less like that in the prem, but they defo need to apply common sense more. They know that the laws give them leeway and that the FA will back them up, they even know their ex-ref mates on sky sports will back them up, it's all very pally pally. I've so rarely come across a ref that is just an honest bloke that lets the play flow naturally and had an understanding of what's going on. When you get a ref like that, the players can see straight away and are respectful, even when he gets things wrong.
  4. Apr 3, 2010
    #44

    Spammy Being watched; will learn to post in the correct f

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    All I see in the prem are fat, pompous fools that love jumping up on their high horse. They would have been traffic wardens but you have to be over 5'7''. Except Howard Webb. He's physically fit, plus he likes a tackle in a strictly legit way, despite being almost completely inept.
  5. Apr 3, 2010
    #45

    Plechazunga Grammar partisan who sleeps with a real life Ryan

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    Your players would see this as a reward.
  6. Apr 3, 2010
    #46

    Spammy Being watched; will learn to post in the correct f

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    Yeah, why give Fabregay and the like the chance to show off their favourite undies?
  7. Apr 3, 2010
    #47

    Name Changed weso26

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    If referees were consistent, then yes. There is no problem with refs getting a decision wrong now and again, it's bound to happen. But the inconsistencies are amazing. How some refs deem some incidents compared to others is unreal. It doesn't help that the FA themselves are often very inconsistent when it comes to things such as banning players.
  8. Apr 3, 2010
    #48

    Plechazunga Grammar partisan who sleeps with a real life Ryan

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    It's not surprising they're inconsistent, there's a lot of leeway within the laws for interpretation.

    That's as it should be. For instance, I like the fact that a ref can let a dynamic game flow by being relatively lenient, but nip a potentially explosive one in the bud by putting a marker down early with a couple of cards.
  9. Apr 3, 2010
    #49

    Tumbling-Dice Caf Nostradamus

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    I stand by what I said. It's not easy and that's why I'd like them to get all the help that technology could provide for them.

    Some of the decisions you see out there on the pitch go beyond words really, people make mistakes yes but there's no excuse for the level of inconsistency in the game. What constitutes a booking one week might go scot-free the next week might be a red card the week after.

    To be honest, I'm a random name on an internet board, you haven't a fecking clue what I have the bottle for and what not.
  10. Apr 3, 2010
    #50

    The Hairdryer Crikey that stung

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    Players make mistakes, stupid ridiculous mistakes as well, and they are inconsistent and can be frustrating. Why do you expect referees to be any different? Someday we we have machines playing and officiating the games, until then you'll have to put up with mere human beings and their failings.


    Very few people could do something like referee in the Premier League. Odds are you couldn't do it. Neither could I or most people here.

    Don't feel bad about it.
  11. Apr 3, 2010
    #51

    Sparky_Hughes Donkey Buggering Tyrant who cheats at Monopoly

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    As Grinner said earlier, the refs have the power to send off players who are repeatedly in their face, and I for one would like to see it, and before our resident non-utd supporters chirp in yes that includes Rooney. But in all honesty I dont care what the FA say, respect is earned not demanded. Whilst anyone can make a bad call, when you have idiots like Clattenburg doing things like changing which card he gives out because El Capitano starfish demands it how the feck are they worthy of respect? If I was as consistantly incompetent in my job performance as some of them Id be out the door sharpish.
  12. Apr 3, 2010
    #52

    Name Changed weso26

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    I'm all for respect, but respect has to be earned. Unfortunately, these refs seem to do nothing but try to lose respect every week.
  13. Apr 3, 2010
    #53

    Tumbling-Dice Caf Nostradamus

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    Simon Beck.

    Take a bow.
  14. Apr 3, 2010
    #54

    mariachi-19 Full Member

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    fecking nothing. They are the biggest bunch of useless fecking cnuts in football. Stevie Wonder could have fecking seen the offside from Drogba. We better hope to hell that Liverpool stick one up Chelsea otherwise our season is over.
  15. Apr 3, 2010
    #55

    Sparky_Hughes Donkey Buggering Tyrant who cheats at Monopoly

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    feck respect, that twat linesman should be stabbed. cnut.
  16. Apr 3, 2010
    #56

    Dobba Full Member

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    Encore, Simon Beck. Encore!
  17. Apr 3, 2010
    #57

    Spammy Being watched; will learn to post in the correct f

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    Yeah, stab him in the face boi
  18. Apr 3, 2010
    #58

    mariachi-19 Full Member

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    :nervous:
  19. Apr 3, 2010
    #59

    Ballache Full Member

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    feck them
  20. Apr 3, 2010
    #60

    MUFCgal Full Member

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    feck the refs and linesman, all cnuts.

    How can they command respect when so many decisions are appalling?
  21. Apr 3, 2010
    #61

    beergod Full Member

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    demanding respect when the likes of uriah rennie, jeff winter, stuart attwell, and clattenburg have been employed as top level referees is laughable. i feel sorry for the competent ones that have their profession sullied by the likes of these people
  22. Apr 4, 2010
    #62

    Tumbling-Dice Caf Nostradamus

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    [​IMG]

    ....
  23. Apr 4, 2010
    #63

    Logan! Banned

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    I got thinking about the whole respect campaign when Drogba's goal was allowed to stand, and the implications of punishing refs for their mistakes.

    I'm a firm believer that every employee should be help accountable for their actions, and I believe the same should be applied by those entrusted to officiate the most popular sport on the planet.

    But then I started wondering about how they should be punished, and the implications those punishments would have.

    Ideally the linesman from yesterday's game would spend a couple of weeks/months in the Championship where maybe he'll learn that he has to stay alert for the entire match if he wants to officiate at the top level. But farcical decisions like this happen at such regular frequency that pretty soon all of our referees and linesman would be in the Championship at the same time, with nobody left to take charge of Premier League games.

    Then what? Do we promote the regular Championship refs and see how they fare in he Prem? I would expect equally damaging decisions, probably even more frequent than we have at the moment.

    What's certain is that as a country we're severely lacking in high quality referees, and with points, league positions, titles and relegation's all at stake, it simply isn't good enough for the much lauded 'best league in the world'.
  24. Apr 4, 2010
    #64

    jveezy Fo' shizzle

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    Well I suppose you could set up some sort of grading system. Anyone below a certain level by the end of the year (or maybe even shorter time periods) get demoted. Anyone in the Championship above a certain level gets promoted. Given of course that there's matching numbers. If there aren't enough Championship officials at a high enough level to be promoted, then don't demote anymore Premiership officials. Either that or just drop and promote a given number of the best Championship and worst Premiership officials like we do with teams after a given time period.

    Grading can be done by incorrect decisions and their severity. Ones that decide matches or lead to goals incorrectly allowed/disallowed or incorrectly awarded/missed red cards would be most severe. Lesser decisions less severe. Some of this is subjective of course but over a long enough time period, it should balance out somewhat, so it probably shouldn't be over a month or so. Maybe three months so you get about three periods per season.

    Of course I can't predict how much extra pressure a grading system would put on match officials and any adverse effects of it. I suppose if you don't get the weighting system right you could see officials favoring certain call patterns that would minimize their deductions if wrong.
  25. Apr 4, 2010
    #65

    Logan! Banned

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    All valid thoughts and I would definitely support such a grading system. The harsh reality though is that nothing like this will ever be introduced. We already have a flawed system in place that protects players from further punishment if the referee has seen the incident. This allegedly is to protect the integrity of the referee as much as anything else. So to even dream of a system where officials would be held accountable for their actions is just that, a dream.

    I think as fans we have to accept the harsh truth that the game we all love will always be at the mercy of incompetent referees and linesman and any hopes of punishing incompetence is very unlikely. The thing for me that makes to harder to accept is the constant moaning about the lack of respect given to the officials. Respect is a two way street, nobody should be given it because of their stature or position, it should be earned, and at the moment there isn't a single referee that's earning an ounce of respect. even referees who I previously thought were strong like Howard Webb have shown heir incompetence in recent months, and he's apparently our top ref.

    So we can moan and snipe all we want about the deficiencies of the men in black, but in reality we're stuck with what we've got.
  26. Apr 4, 2010
    #66

    Arruda Full Member

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    How can a referee earn respect? Every fecking decision he has, half the world thinks should have been the other way. Football is an impossible game to referee in a way that pleases everyone.

    Out of the ones that have balls to endure a profession were abuse is constant (and I can imagine it's much worse at the lower divisions, if it's like in Portugal), and pay is shit, most people that could be awesomely competent at that probably chose something else to do with their lives. We are left with some arrogant individuals (I don't think anyone without this trait could ever support having such a shit job) of which some are better than others...

    I don't think they have to be competent to earn respect. Respect should be a given by default. The only way another human being can lose my respect is if he intentionally disrespects me. It has nothing to do with competence. On my 15 or more years of attentively watching football I have never seen a Portuguese referee that was respected, and considering the large sample that passed through the fields during these years, I have to believe the problem does not lie in them. Large groups of people with something in common tend to behave like idiots when they're together, that's why referees aren't respected either by players or supporters. I have no doubts that most of the ones that insult them while they are doing their job would be all smiles and courteous if they met them on their day-to-day affairs.
  27. Apr 4, 2010
    #67

    Logan! Banned

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    Arruda, referees live in a world where half of the fans of the team they're officiating think they're against them. In some cases both sets of fans think the referee has treated their team harshly, but the rest of the world, the neutral public that has no bias towards the game, gives a good opinion on whether the referee has done his job properly or if he has made a refereeing catastrophe.


    Regardless of bias, those of us who watch football regularly (not just yernited) can see that there's a severe deficiency of competent referees in the game today. Every week the referees are making the headlines for the wrong reasons. The people who are making the headlines should be footballers who have scored winning goals, or defenders who have made mistakes to allow the opposition to score. It is the players who should decide football matches, not the officials who are employed to uphold the rules of the game and ensure it is played fairly.

    So no, respect shouldn't be given automatically, not ever, not in any walk of life. It must always be earned, particularly when you're employed to officiate a game where millions of pounds in potential prize money could be at stake.
  28. Apr 4, 2010
    #68

    Sam.G Banned

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    It is given in every other sport, including tennis, where there are also millions at stake.

    Football is a poorer game for the way the officials are treated by players, fans and media alike.
  29. Apr 4, 2010
    #69

    Logan! Banned

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    Most other sports are officiated much more professionally, with the use of video replays to aid the referees decisions.

    I'd wager that football has the highest percentage of wrong decisions than any other sport.

    In most sports, and indeed professions, if you want to make a name for yourself as the top man in your niche you have to be better than everybody else. I cannot honestly name one referee who stands out as the best (of a bad bunch). Howard Webb seems to have been given the nod as the top referee, and he has done so not by being good at his job, but by apparently being less shit than his even more incompetent colleagues.
  30. Apr 4, 2010
    #70

    Alex Banned

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    Shit happens, when it comes down to it that goal more than likely wont decide the title
  31. Apr 4, 2010
    #71

    Logan! Banned

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    Yeah it's not like it's given Chelsea an extra two points with just 5 games left to play is it? :houllier:
  32. Apr 4, 2010
    #72

    Alex Banned

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    What do u want to do hang the linesman
  33. Apr 4, 2010
    #73

    Logan! Banned

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    Are you 12?

    U is a letter, not a word. Use your keyboard like an adult. And questions are generally indicated by one of these thingies >> ? We call it a question mark.

    And in answer to your question, no, I don't want to hang the linesman. What a ridiculous thing to suggest. :confused:
  34. Apr 4, 2010
    #74

    Alex Banned

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    U say that and then use a smilie...
  35. Apr 4, 2010
    #75

    Logan! Banned

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    One of those facepalm pictures just doesn't seem enough.
  36. Apr 4, 2010
    #76

    Tumbling-Dice Caf Nostradamus

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    :lol:

    Alex, feck off and support superbowl or something because you are constantly completely clueless when it comes to saaawkker.
  37. Apr 4, 2010
    #77

    Sam.G Banned

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    Your goal wasn't exactly legal.
  38. Apr 4, 2010
    #78

    askabob Full Member

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    :lol:
  39. Apr 4, 2010
    #79

    holyland red Full Member

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    :lol: what a sorry cnut. Yeah, the man should be stabbed for making a mistake at work.
  40. Apr 4, 2010
    #80

    Sparky_Hughes Donkey Buggering Tyrant who cheats at Monopoly

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    Oh go feck yourself, like you have never said something stupid in the heat of the moment.

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