Question Time & This Week

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Liam147, Nov 23, 2012.

  1. Nov 23, 2012
    #1

    Liam147 On Probation

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    Not a complete cock, just really young.
    To keep the QT talk separate from the Westminster stuff.

    So, Owen Jones and Iain Duncan-Smith, eh.
  2. Nov 23, 2012
    #2

    bsc Full Member

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    In
  3. Nov 23, 2012
    #3

    Drainy Full Member

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    Stopped watching it ages ago. Got sick of all the attention seeking pricks in the audience making 'humorous' comments and vitriolic statements with little substance, followed by mindless cheers.
  4. Nov 23, 2012
    #4

    1999united2008 Banned

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    Owen Jones was excellent I thought, Duncan Smith was his usual vile smarmy Tory scum self, his outburst at the end was pathetic, he clearly just didn't want to here the names of people who died after his policy said they were fit to work.
  5. Nov 23, 2012
    #5

    bsc Full Member

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    Spot on.

    Between 30 and 50 people die every week because of his policies. He didn't like hearing the truth told to him on national tv and he couldn't defend it either.

    And it was resfreshing to actually hear the disabled defended on the BBC for once. Dimbles, was of course, trying to obfuscate the best he could.
  6. Nov 23, 2012
    #6

    Drifter American

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    Deborah Meaden was way out of her depth. Owen was very good especially is take on Israel and the Housing benefit system.
  7. Nov 23, 2012
    #7

    Marching Somehow still supports Leeds

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    Owen Jones reminded me of Citizen Smith....Power to the people!

    Anyone read his book Chavs: The Demonization of the Working Class
  8. Nov 23, 2012
    #8

    Adebesi Full Member

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    Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth.
    Jones was very good.
    IDS is a wanker but good value on QT I always find.
    Kennedy good too.

    Good episode last night I thought.
  9. Nov 23, 2012
    #9

    alastair ignorant

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    What a surprise Jones went down well on the Caf. He's just an overgrown student who hasn't grown out of extreme leftness yet.
  10. Nov 23, 2012
    #10

    peterstorey Specialist In Failure

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    'It's for the Arsenal and we're going to Wembley'
    He's way ahead of you Al: OMG HE LOOKS 12 DOES HIS MUM KNOW HE'S UP THIS LATE WHY ISN'T HE DOING HIS PAPER ROUND << just anticipating the tweets later ;)
  11. Nov 23, 2012
    #11

    Dobba Full Member

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    "You and your paper can feck off."
    Maybe you can do a better job defending ATOS than IDS did.
  12. Nov 23, 2012
    #12

    alastair ignorant

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    Nah, I'm not sure how well it works as a policy, but it's ludicrous to say it is killing 50 people a week or whatever the Caf is claiming.
  13. Nov 23, 2012
    #13

    peterstorey Specialist In Failure

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    'It's for the Arsenal and we're going to Wembley'
    FTSE directors give themselves pay rises of 27% while the government hammers the worst off. It's a fecking joke.
  14. Nov 23, 2012
    #14

    Marching Somehow still supports Leeds

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    :lol: There have been some great claims on the Caf but I'd like to see the facts to back that one up.
  15. Nov 23, 2012
    #15

    Count Orduck Full Member

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    What's the government meant to do, tell the big companies to stop paying their employees so well?
  16. Nov 23, 2012
    #16

    Rooney24 Full Member

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    Totally out of her depth.

    Didnt she say something along the lines of "...and thats what we need to make sure of before we join the EU.......oh.....we are in the EU"

    It was something like that anyway.

    Owen Jones was very good on the current Israel / Palestine conflict I thought.
  17. Nov 23, 2012
    #17

    Dobba Full Member

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    "You and your paper can feck off."
  18. Nov 23, 2012
    #18

    alastair ignorant

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    The government is not hammering the worst off. You can blame Labour for destroying any kind of aspiration in this country among the poor.
  19. Nov 23, 2012
    #19

    alastair ignorant

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    Owen Jones made some reasonable points throughout the programme, but sadly they were intermingled with a hell of a lot of completely ridiculous ones.

    He sums up the problem with the far left - they can have some interesting views and it's important to hear them, but they consistently let themselves down through their endless moralising and talking down to people as if they just don't understand what it's like to be someone else with a different opinion. Quoting the names of people who have died on QT is not only unfair to Ian Duncan Smith who clearly is never going to know the exact circumstances so as to comment on them, and also incredibly disrespectful to the families the deceased belonged to.
  20. Nov 23, 2012
    #20

    Dobba Full Member

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    "You and your paper can feck off."
    Which of course IDS didn't do by saying "We've heard a lot from you" and repeatedly talking over Owen's points.
  21. Nov 23, 2012
    #21

    Nick 0208 Ldn News 24

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    Ditto. Attention seeking pricks indeed,



    Jones is a bit like somebody who has been plucked from that crowd and given a national platform. He'll probably be doing the paper review on the Stephen Nolan show tonight or tomorrow, trotting out the same old lines.
  22. Nov 23, 2012
    #22

    alastair ignorant

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    There's a difference between being patronising and moralising.
  23. Nov 23, 2012
    #23

    Dobba Full Member

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    "You and your paper can feck off."
    So what about his comments that Owen didn't care about the disabled when Labour were in power (completely unfounded) and that he and the current government were making disabled people's lives better?
  24. Nov 23, 2012
    #24

    alastair ignorant

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    I'm not saying I'm completely on the side of IDS, but more that Owen Jones was incredibly unfair in his criticism.
  25. Nov 23, 2012
    #25

    Dobba Full Member

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    "You and your paper can feck off."
    Funny that, "consistently letting themselves down through their endless moralising and talking down to people as if they just don't understand what it's like to be someone else with a different opinion" was an issue for the left a few replies ago.

    I agree on IDS, he got away with no reply to the points by Owen and no questions at all on his flagship policy being found to be a complete joke.
  26. Nov 23, 2012
    #26

    Adebesi Full Member

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    Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth.
    Alastair, I don't think it's fair to equate your observation there to the left or the right specifically. The right can be equally dismissive of views that aren't their own.
  27. Nov 23, 2012
    #27

    peterstorey Specialist In Failure

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    'It's for the Arsenal and we're going to Wembley'
    Whenever I see IDS I always think 'surely he wasn't leader of the Tories, am I mixing him up with someone else?'. He's got all the charisma and intellect of a dead haddock
  28. Nov 23, 2012
    #28

    Nick 0208 Ldn News 24

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    *Parental advisory for Owen Jones fans*

    Blinded by his politics.
  29. Nov 23, 2012
    #29

    alastair ignorant

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    Extreme elements of either side are annoying. The left, in my view, moralise more than the right though. Just read the threads on the Caf - 'I vote left because I believe in fairness and justice etc.' It's bollocks.

    And that video with Jones is hilarious. What a weapon.
  30. Nov 23, 2012
    #30

    Liam147 On Probation

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    Not a complete cock, just really young.
    As far as I can tell, wasn't he just stating the obvious on Israel?

    Someone said about him that he was excellent for "shouting all the opinions you held beforehand", meaning the audience vociferously agree, making him look like he's actually quite insightful.
    In fairness, when I actually saw him on QT, he did look about 17.

    EDIT: Cringeworthy stuff there, Nick. Should probably wrap a spoiler around it.
  31. Nov 23, 2012
    #31

    Dobba Full Member

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    "You and your paper can feck off."
    You wouldn't be looking down on people who hold different opinions to your own there, would you?
  32. Nov 23, 2012
    #32

    Marching Somehow still supports Leeds

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    :lol:
  33. Nov 23, 2012
    #33

    alastair ignorant

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    Not at all. You can tell me that you vote differently to me or whatever, but I hate people telling me that they're left because they believe in helping the poor etc. You don't have to be a socialist to not want to kill disabled people, but that's somewhat lost on the Caf.
  34. Nov 23, 2012
    #34

    Drifter American

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    Yesterday was the first time i saw Owen Jones , and he came across as very impressive.Looking forward to reading "The Demonization of the Working Class".
  35. Nov 23, 2012
    #35

    peterstorey Specialist In Failure

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    'It's for the Arsenal and we're going to Wembley'
    Glad to hear that killing them isn't on the agenda even if taking money off them is.
  36. Nov 23, 2012
    #36

    Dobba Full Member

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    "You and your paper can feck off."
    ...and whoever is in charge of Tory PR.

    Oh I don't think for a second that Tories want to kill disabled people, they just want to look like they're tackling the welfare state and are not bothered by the consequences.

    Closing down Remploy factories and IDS shouting over the names of those who have died after being found fit for work on national TV doesn't do him or the party any favours.
  37. Nov 23, 2012
    #37

    Chabon Full Member

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    Out of interest, what are the acceptable reasons for being 'left'?
  38. Nov 23, 2012
    #38

    Nick 0208 Ldn News 24

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    As i didn't watch QT i need to clarify something, Owen Jones in a roundabout way laid a claim of involuntary manslaughter or at the least criminal neglect at the feet of IDS?


    The existing DLA system was unwieldy and in need of reform. More disabled people than you might suppose are in a position to work but instead are given benefits and forgotten. The money may ease the conscience of able bodies people like Jones however still leaves many detached from society. And to a degree not recognised in this thread, a good portion of the burden falls upon local authorities, and whether Labour or Tory they only achieve so much.

    Labour and its supporters may be more vocal for the needy yet their effectiveness is vastly overstated IMO.
  39. Nov 23, 2012
    #39

    Chabon Full Member

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    There's absolutely no defence for using ATOS to do the assessments, and people have died as a result. There's endless mountains of evidence out there in support of this, and it would probably be a massive scandal if we didn't live in a society that largely views the disabled as sub-human.
  40. Nov 23, 2012
    #40

    Dave89 Full Member

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    Yeah, if you need to add sound effects to political debate you probably shouldn't bother.