Quote: "What's happened to the Manchester United I used to love?"

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Randall Flagg, Apr 23, 2012.

  1. Apr 23, 2012
    #1

    Randall Flagg Worst of the best

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    What about Phil?
    This is a quote from yesterday's matchday forum. This is not to start an argument with that poster but just a discussion. (Although the “used to love part” is somewhat concerning)

    I know he is not the only one with very strong feelings over what has transpired this season. We failed badly in Europe, got destroyed at home by our neighbours and went down with barely a whimper away to Newcastle and Wigan.

    When we don’t play well I pretty much always accept it and am often quite surprised at comments on Red Cafe afterwards slating Fergie, his tactics, team selection and substitutions.

    Am I blind in my refusal to criticise Fergie? I simply cannot bring myself to do so. Instead I tend to point my finger at the players failing to perform.

    So is it a fair question to ask “what has happened to Manchester United”? Even though we currently lead the league by 3 points and could well still end up with the title. Would that be a case of papering over the cracks?

    Discuss
  2. Apr 23, 2012
    #2

    Zen86 Full Member

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    That's the joke.
    I think this season has been exactly like Manchester United, it's just cost us particularly badly in Europe.
  3. Apr 23, 2012
    #3

    Annihilate Now! ...or later, I'm not fussy

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    Haven't Manchester United always enjoyed doing things the hard way??

    The Manchester United this guy used to love are still fully intact... we're just doing it the hard way.

    And if... If we do it and win this league, i'd like to grab a quote from this fella.
  4. Apr 23, 2012
    #4

    Hectic Moderator

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    I think people tend to have very short memories. That quote's probably been mentioned on and off every few years.
  5. Apr 23, 2012
    #5

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    The whole concept that winning the fecking league would be papering over anything is too absurd to take seriously.

    In terms of the bigger picture, we're still hugely reliant on Scholes and we miss the reliable defensive contributions from O'Shea and Brown. We're hopefully not far off having adequate replacements for the latter two players but if we don't get some real quality cover in for Scholes we could have a lean few years. Shit happens though. Football is all about cycles. We've been ridiculously fortunate as fans in recent years. It would be more than a bit pathetic for people to start falling out of love with the team as soon as this purple patch inevitably comes to an end (never mind when we're still top of the bloody league!).
  6. Apr 23, 2012
    #6

    togg Full Member

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    To be honest, with the new players we brought in last summer and Scholes retiring I really didn't think we would be challenging for the title the way we are at the moment. And when Vidic was injured I really thought...that's it. So I'm very impressed with how the team and Ferguson have kept pushing city all the way.

    Not sure about papering over the cracks, but I do think this is one of Fergusons less creative teams. We've never been a gung-ho team, as we were at the beginning of the season, but we have always had a power mixed with inventiveness. We've always had a lot of movement off the ball which I just don't think is happening in the same way with this team.

    I'm not saying it won't happen, its just an opinion of the season I've seen.
  7. Apr 23, 2012
    #7

    Number7 Ret's Slave

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    Maybe my memory is distorted by time, but as i was growing up if we went ahead, we'd punish the other team. They'd come at us and we'd exploit it. With the exception of 2008/2009 I remember this always being the case. Now I just think we're so casual, so used to winning that there isn't the urgency when we go ahead to push home our advantage. I know we did yesterday, but generally going a goal up doesn't feel like it used too. It used to feel like shutters but now I kind of expect us to dick around for a bit, possibly concede before deciding to play again.

    What the feck were we doing for the first half hour yesterday? Yesterday really sums up United. Total shite...concede a goal, start playing, get noses in front, play awesome, become too casual, concede, start playing again, repeat
  8. Apr 23, 2012
    #8

    finneh Full Member

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    As noodle has said in other threads, it's the complacency and feeling that we can stroll around to win games that is the most annoying facet of this team. Every single game we have lost this season has been against teams who have the audacity to actually press us, get in our faces and not treat us with the respect we clearly feel we deserve.

    This and the fact that I don't feel like we put in hardly any World Class team performances this season (possibly because it often feels like as soon as we are in front the complacency kicks in and we seem to believe the game is over), particularly since October.
  9. Apr 23, 2012
    #9

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    As opposed to the teams from previous seasons that managed to beat us without pressing us?
  10. Apr 23, 2012
    #10

    Cina Warrior Princess

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    I think it'll be a total balls-up of a season if we don't win the PL at this stage really.
  11. Apr 23, 2012
    #11

    Crustanoid Full Member

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    We've won the league for 4 out of the previous five and have challenged for the other year until the end. This year we could make it 5/6 or at the very least challenge right up to the end. Compare that period of time with the period between 1986-1992

    League finishes 1986/7-1991/2: 11-2-11-13-6-2

    or

    League finishes 2006/7-2011/2: 1-1-1-2-1-1/2

    Expectation is ridiculous at times among our fans
  12. Apr 23, 2012
    #12

    sammsky1 Full Member

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    We knew at the very beginning of this season that we were in a period of transition. we have been here before under SAF, last between 2004-6.

    Its a miricle that SAF has got us into the position that we are in.

    We are so lucky to even be leading the league with 3 games to go. I would have been over than delighted if we were we are right now at the beginning of the season.

    I logged onto this site for 10 mins yesterday and had to log stright back out. The whining sense of thinking we alone own 'success and glory' as well as the self indulgent nature of critcism left me embarressed and cold. Not many commnets were 'supportive', which is strange given those who post on here are supposeldy some of our most engaged supporters.
  13. Apr 23, 2012
    #13

    Cina Warrior Princess

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    Our squad is too good (albeit flawed in some areas) to call this a period of transition.
  14. Apr 23, 2012
    #14

    Hectic Moderator

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    Short memories. I reckon the 05/06 season would have brought fullscale collapse had it happened now.
  15. Apr 23, 2012
    #15

    finneh Full Member

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    Obviously you are going to get beaten every season, the difference is that almost every team that has really pressed us and bettered our work rate this season has gotten a result.

    Newcastle at home aside there hasn't been a game that I've watched and come out of it thinking we deserved much more than we got. Usually in a season we have a number of results that you would call unlucky for us or fortunate from the other teams perspective, but this season every time we've dropped points you'd say the opposition has deserved it due to either a superior work rate or our complacency.
  16. Apr 23, 2012
    #16

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    "like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
    Indeed.

    There's also the way people always remember previous seasons (especially title-winning ones) as some kind of serene procession where we bitch-slap the other 19 teams without breaking sweat. Never getting out-played, never playing badly and always playing "the United way"

    We've lost 4 games so far this season. The same as in 10/11. We lost 6 in 09/10, 4 in 08/09 and 5 in both of the previous two seasons. We're on target to score more goals than we did in all but one of the past 10 seasons.

    Sometimes I think people have a real problem with appreciating what we've got until it's gone. Their loss really.
  17. Apr 23, 2012
    #17

    KingMinger22 City >>> United. Moaning twat

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    It's not a vintage United team and no neutral would say that. However, I think we'll be seeing another classic team in a season or two once we get 2-3 positions improved and the likes of Welbeck, Smalling and Jones fulfill their potential.
  18. Apr 23, 2012
    #18

    Cina Warrior Princess

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    We're on target to score more goals than the previous 10 seasons yet you fail to mention that we haven't conceded this many goals since 05/06 where we conceded 34, which we could still beat because we've conceded 32 with 3 games left.

    I don't think anyone with half a brain has doubted us from an attacking perspective this year, but our defense and cover of our defense has been appalling at times and that's why we're out of all the cups and may not win the league.
  19. Apr 23, 2012
    #19

    KingMinger22 City >>> United. Moaning twat

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    When people say this, I don't think they are referring to the actual results the team is producing but more the style in which they are being achieved
  20. Apr 23, 2012
    #20

    Crustanoid Full Member

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    I think SAF can't be praised enough for what he has created - a constantly evolving team which does not even drop standards in it's supposed transition years. The way we challenge for every single title year in year out with these so-called problems is a marvel
  21. Apr 23, 2012
    #21

    kps88 Full Member

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    :lol: Forget looking back at previous seasons, people can't even remember what we were like at the start of this season. We were playing some cracking football. Putting 8 past Arsenal, 4 past Chelsea. What more do people want? Oh right, they want us to play free flowing entertaining football for 38 games and win the league with 10 to spare.
  22. Apr 23, 2012
    #22

    Ruud_boy_10 Full Member

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    There was a time not too long ago when United didn't even challenge for the title (04-06). Now we're top with 3 game to play. I don't know which united team he's refering to that used to win every f***ing game, but its not one I can recall.

    United always do things the hard way. Its the United way and always will be.
  23. Apr 23, 2012
    #23

    Rado_N Grinner ruined my tagline

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    If we beat City next Monday and go on to win the league, in 3 or 4 years time people will be referring back to this season as the great old days.
  24. Apr 23, 2012
    #24

    kietotheworld Banned

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    You're right about one thing, people do forget the start of the season, we didn't put 4 past Chelsea. What people want is for the team not to drop an 8 point lead into a 3 point one while we still have to travel to our title rivals and have an inferior goal difference. And let's not forget the embarrassment in other competitions as well.
  25. Apr 23, 2012
    #25

    kps88 Full Member

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    So true.

    What happened to the United I used to love? The one that would put 8 past Arsenal and come back from 3 goals down at The Bridge. The one that could recover from losing 1-6 to City. The one that had rampaging wingers, exciting young players and a midfield maestro. Oh how I miss that United side.
  26. Apr 23, 2012
    #26

    sammsky1 Full Member

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    I wish these 'people' did not exist, at at least support us.
  27. Apr 23, 2012
    #27

    Dion Full Member

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    A close run league and going out early in Europe due to defensive naivety... isn't that pretty much all we did in the 90's?
  28. Apr 23, 2012
    #28

    Cina Warrior Princess

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    Given the group we crashed out and the strength of our squad, there's no way we should've crashed out.
  29. Apr 23, 2012
    #29

    Inigo Montoya Full Member

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    Think the truth lies somewhere in between.Some will be suggesting a return to the good old days, whatever that means.The inferrence is that we've had some lean years which would be inaccurate.Others may just point to the fact that though it hasn't been vintage Utd we have been in transition for a couple of years now.

    Last year was a very up and down one for many of the challengers and we probably emerged the best of an indifferent group of teams.I feel this year has been far more competitive with City certainly lasting the pace.While it still will be a major disappointment if we don't win the league it should be remembered for some fantastic entertainment and tension.We should also recall previous seasons when we haven't won and the response thereafter.

    Whatever happens it will be an interesting next few years. Ones I look forward to optimism...not the doom and gloom that some seem to harbour
  30. Apr 23, 2012
    #30

    Inigo Montoya Full Member

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    Given that I grew up with relegation,mid table mediocrity and the occasional Cup in the 70's and 80's...I'll take today's 'poor performances' any day
  31. Apr 23, 2012
    #31

    Judge Red Don't Call Me Douglas

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    If you take City out of the equation, we'd have walked the league this year and been able to concentrate more on the cup competitions.

    Nothing has happened to us, something has happened to other clubs. We have risen to a substantial challenge in the league this year and we can still conquer it without our captain and main defender available for the majority of the season. But we can forget about going for trebles. There's nothing Fergie or our players can do about that with the quality of the Spanish clubs and the limitless spending of City.

    To be honest, I never had us down to win anything at the start of the season. It WAS supposed to be a transitional year (we were supposed to replace Scholes...) and compared to Arsenal's six-year-long transitional year, it's been a good one!
  32. Apr 23, 2012
    #32

    towcester_red Full Member

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    When you read comments like that it really does make you realise how fecking spoilt we have been.

    Like people genuinely believe we have a god given right to win every competition we enter.

    If we win the league this season, it will be that famous Manchester United spirit that has got us over the line.
  33. Apr 23, 2012
    #33

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    I didn't mention it because it's so obvious that keeping the goals out has been our only real failing this season. Even in Europe, which seems to be the main bone of contention for most fans, we've scored freely. Just under two goals scored per game. That would usually have been more than enough to get deep into the CL.

    Of course, it's no great surprise that we haven't been as defensively resolute as we could have been. We lost all the experience and defensive nous of O'Shea and Brown in the summer. We lost our best keeper since Schmeicel at the same time and we lost arguably the best centre-half on the planet for almost the whole season. Throw in a biblical injury crisis, combine with the defensive naivety of Phil Jones and the Da Silvas and the cherry on top is a 21 year old Spanish keeper getting used to a new league. I mean, it's actually a miracle we haven't conceded even more goals!

    What grips my shit is all the moaning about how badly we've been playing from the exact same posters that spent the previous 4 or 5 years complaining about our apparent negativity - especially in Europe. Post after post talking about "the United way", complaining about playing with a single striker. The match-going fans even got their own chant (attack! attack! attack!) going to criticise Fergie for daring to be slightly pragmatic in our approach. Well these fans have got what they wanted. Gung ho attacking football. We'll ship goals but we'll (usually) score more than the opposition. It's made for a hell of an entertaining season and we're still well placed to win the league, with amongst the highest number of goals and points in any season ever under Fergie (or any other manager) And these people are still not fecking happy. Amazing, it really is.
  34. Apr 23, 2012
    #34

    Raven Blade Dull

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    I've only known the Man Utd of the 90's and beyond. Even I can appreciate that what we have going on here is still unprecedented and we should savour every moment of it. You read some people at the moment saying this is the "worst ever Utd team" and it makes you laugh really.

    Clueless idiots have no idea how consistently good Sir Alex's teams have been and this one is no exception. This team epitomises Manchester United to the core as far as im concerned.
  35. Apr 23, 2012
    #35

    Name Changed weso26

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    Our defence has been poor, but let's not forget that we have been missing probably the best defender in the world for the guts of the season.
  36. Apr 23, 2012
    #36

    Name Changed weso26

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    United were shite when I starting supporting them as a youngfella also. It's easy to get used to the success though!
  37. Apr 23, 2012
    #37

    Crustanoid Full Member

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    Will we ever return to those halcyon days of last Sunday?
    Oh how I miss them,
    for it seems so long ago since we were that exciting unbeatable force in football.
    Alas, they most likely will never return
  38. Apr 23, 2012
    #38

    Rood nostradamus like gloater

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    I see what you did there, and I like it :D
  39. Apr 23, 2012
    #39

    VP Full Member

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    The problem with this United is that when we're bad we're really really bad.

    The performance in the first 30 minutes and when we went 2 goals up was frankly an embarrassment.

    Comparing this team to the pre-Fergie era is pointless. This is a team challenging for the title and in that context it was a shocker and something we've probably never seen in previous title challenging teams.
  40. Apr 23, 2012
    #40

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Well that's just blatantly not true. There's been loads of abject performances from title-winning teams in the very recent past. Usually against Liverpool and (bizarrely) Fulham, for some strange reason.

    Oh and Blackburn. Almost always Blackburn too.

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