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Quote: "What's happened to the Manchester United I used to love?"

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Randall Flagg, Apr 23, 2012.

  1. Apr 23, 2012
    #41

    Randall Flagg Worst of the best

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    What about Phil?
    What about in 92/93 when we were mid table by xmas?

    In 96/97 we lost 3 in a row conceding 13 in the process

    We had a load of dodgy results in the 1st half of 98/99.

    You could pick shite performances out of every season
  2. Apr 23, 2012
    #42

    Inigo Montoya Full Member

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    It's hardly pointless, it's adding some perspective and context.When the OP asks 'what happened to the Utd I used to love?' I feel this is what's needed, and if you've never it in previous Utd challenging teams you simply haven't been around long enough.... even post SAF
  3. Apr 23, 2012
    #43

    VP Full Member

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    Yeah but how many of these performances were in the run in?

    Granted we occasionally put in a shocker during the run in. But the last 2 games have been particularly bad.
  4. Apr 23, 2012
    #44

    Randall Flagg Worst of the best

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    What about Phil?
    Aston Villa at home was fine. I guess you mean the Wigan game.
  5. Apr 23, 2012
    #45

    Cina hell hath no fury like a Cina scorned

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    I merely pointed out our defensive problems because like you, I do not think our attack has been lacking this year, at times maybe it hasn't been pretty, but unless you're Barcelona you'll never be able to play attractive football all season. I'm very happy with our attack this year, and I think we'll be even better if we get the right midfielders.

    But I feel it is worth acknowledging that our defense has not been up to standards given how good it's been in general in the last 5 or so seasons. I don't just blame our defense for that, our over use of 4-4-2 and lack of a midfield (until Scholes returned anyway) is a problem too.

    But no, I'm not sure how the feck people can criticse our attack given how good it has been and how distinctly average/poor we've been defensively at times in comparison. That should be the real focus of complaints.
  6. Apr 23, 2012
    #46

    FreakyJim Full Member

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    Thing is, we were in a position from which rarely teams throw it away, and I can't recall a recent history United team ever doing this.

    Though I have to admit I never really thought we'd be in a position to win it this season. But I'd rather we didn't challenge at all if we're about to throw it so spectacularly away.

    As for expectations, like it or not, we're amongst the biggest teams in the world and players come here knowing we'd challenge for everything every year. With the amount of money this club generates and the support it has, there's always going to be pressure and expectations.

    Also it's an internet football forum, you don't have to wear the red tinted specs all the time in here and "support" the team through 1s and 0es.
  7. Apr 23, 2012
    #47

    rcoobc Not as crap as eferyone thinks

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    What I've been thinking about recently is how we don't have a first XI, and it hasn't even been through competition of places but mostly through injury. People say this hasn't been vintage United, but I think it has just spread thin. It's not easy when you have 23 players in constant rotation.

    Had we been using the same XI since the start of the season, supplemented by another few I think people might think differently.
  8. Apr 23, 2012
    #48

    Gee Male Full Member

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    This is the best post I've read on here today.

    Granted, I've only just logged on...
  9. Apr 23, 2012
    #49

    MikeUpNorth Wobbles like a massive pair of tits

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    For me, this has the potential to be a great United side, but it isn't there yet. The one thing that really does seem to be missing for me is that iconic leader on the pitch that most of our great teams have had.
  10. Apr 23, 2012
    #50

    FreakyJim Full Member

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    Actually we've rarely played "gung ho" attacking football this year. I'm not sure what Pouge is on about. There has been some games at the start of the season but that's about it.
    We've scored more than enough goals this season but never really played great and very rarely controlled an opposition.
    It's not just about the defense, it's the way we play. We seem incapable of pressuring the good teams and control the game. our midfield is too immobile and we don't know how to close down as a unit. We prefer to drop as deep as we can and rely on the other team not scoring.
    There's much to be improved in this United side, imo. And if we want to challenge in Europe again we have to sort out the midfield. (and there it is, for the millionth time, the midfield problem is mentioned).
  11. Apr 23, 2012
    #51

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    What else should we be doing to satisfy your definition of gung ho attacking football?
  12. Apr 23, 2012
    #52

    apotheosis O'Fortuna

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    Good post Pogue, but doesn't that qualify as one of the 'huge walls of text', you are always pulling me about? :smirk:
  13. Apr 23, 2012
    #53

    FreakyJim Full Member

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    Tbh, I don't know what gung ho football really means. If it's all out attack or something, we really haven't played that sort of stuff in ages(if ever).

    What I'm hoping/ or rather was hoping is that we play with more tempo, fluidity and that we close down our opponents more, control games more, as opposed to letting them straight back into the game after we go ahead, that sort of thing.
    But maybe we're just not capable.
  14. Apr 23, 2012
    #54

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    I want most of that too. Especially the controlling games bit.

    None of that is gung ho, attacking football though. When fans chant "attack, attack, attack" they definitely don't mean "control control control". As per my previous post, it's what a lot of people call "the United way". Two up top and two out and out wingers and set out with the attitude that we might concede but we'll score more goals than the opposition. Good fun but a bit naive.

    There's been people moaning about how we no longer play "the United way" for years. This season they've got it and - just like what happened so often in the 90s - we're being found out in Europe. Go figure.

    Personally, I think our defensive injuries/inexperience has been a bigger problem than our approach but I'm also certain that the very attacking way we've set up so often this season hasn't helped.
  15. Apr 23, 2012
    #55

    Zen Full Member

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    The problem with that kind of quote is.....is said by people who love Man Utd for the winning only.....not the rest of the our traditions. Kinda terrible really, but stuff like that comes with being this big and good for such a pro longed period.
  16. Apr 23, 2012
    #56

    Adebesi Full Member

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    Ive never liked the attack attack attack chant. It somehow always reminds me of a spoilt child at Christmas shouting at his mum for more presents.
  17. Apr 23, 2012
    #57

    Hectic Moderator

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    This is clearly the issue, or at least reponsible for a big part of it. Why so many people seem to ignore this is beyond me. It's hardly a typical season for us in that sense.
  18. Apr 23, 2012
    #58

    KiD MoYeS Good Craig got his c'nuppins

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    The Manchester United I love never do it the easy way.
  19. Apr 23, 2012
    #59

    Hellboy Full Member

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    The Manchester United that you used to love is in a transition phase, just like 2003/2006. Our defenders are young/off form (Evra). Thankfully we still have four or five special players at the moment and we can score a lot of goals.
  20. Apr 23, 2012
    #60

    FreakyJim Full Member

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    Well, if there are people that want us to attack attack, as in everyone go forward, don't worry about defending, then it's cretinous. No one plays like that.

    But it's also hard to compare this team to earlier United teams. I don't see much resemblance, apart from the somewhat dodgy defence. Different players, different times.
    Though even when we were naive back then, we usually went out of Europe much later in the competition and against more capable opponents.
    I think we were more dominant back then (of course with players like Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Beckham in their primes, it was hard not to be).

    Anyway, Imo the first half of 2006/07 season we played at the level I hope we achieve again some day. We were more successful after that, won shit loads but never reached that fluidity, tempo and style we had during those months. Everything sort of clicked perfectly.
  21. Apr 23, 2012
    #61

    VivaRonaldo7 Full Member

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    Far too many spoilt brats on here.

    Ok answer me this question please?

    What would you do if we didn't win the league for 5 years but went through a transition period and challenged after that and won it?
  22. Apr 23, 2012
    #62

    Stretch Full Member

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    Is he normal?
    :lol: The hysteria from some...It's funny because as the game ended yesterday I told my mate "Damn it, why do we ALWAYS have to do it the hard way".
  23. Apr 23, 2012
    #63

    FreakyJim Full Member

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    I'd make a thread in here with the title WELL, IT WAS ABOUT feckING TIME, Fergal! FFS
  24. Apr 23, 2012
    #64

    Varun Wants the D...

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    Pogue has basically covered everything i came to say here.

    The only thing i'd say is that its ridiculous to complain about our style and oomph factor when we've scored the number of goals we've had this season. Our problem has been the lack of experience at the back and thats the single most important reason for the troubles we've had. Given we lost our best CB and captain for the entire season, lost VDS Oshea and Brown, its hardly a surprise.

    This is a young team which is going to get better, its not the best it can be. People need to live with it rather than actually behaving as if its a god given right we have to win every year.
  25. Apr 23, 2012
    #65

    Liam147 On Probation

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    Not a complete cock, just really young.
    Yes. I have no problem criticising Fergie. I blame him for us going out of Europe. Not that I'll be bothered if we win the league. In fact, I think going out when we did has put us in this position. What it is though is that people believe they owe him some loyalty, and that because of how good (understatement?) he's been, he's infallible. He isn't at all, he does make mistakes, and he has been to blame.

    Nothing's happened to Manchester United. Nothing at all, been through this loads of times, the squad has changed a lot, and naturally we wouldn't be as good as previous seasons. The fact we're still top is a testament to Fergie's management.
  26. Apr 23, 2012
    #66

    moses control

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    I have no idea either, yet.
    Aye, and even that would seem less urgent with Vidic in the side.
  27. Apr 23, 2012
    #67

    Cold_Boy Banned

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    If you are real fan you can't really stop loving but yeah not enjoying like before is a factor because these days we are more likely to scrap to victory or just do the job rather than show no mercy like used to with the previous sides.

    You can also see how the fear in our opponents is gone.
  28. Apr 23, 2012
    #68

    Amir Full Member

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    There are good and correct comments here. As someone said, when we're bad we tend to be very bad, totally unable to control the match, and it was highly annoying when we started and finished yesterday's match like that. At this stage it doesn't matter if the foundations of the team is changing and which players have been lost for whatever reason. Bringing ourselves into a great position in the table and then blowing five points away with a terrible game at Wigan and terrible parts of a game against Everton will never be taken easily. It's frustrating because we know we're better than this and you don't expect such collapse from any of Fergie's teams.

    I'd probably say the fact that on our bads days, or bad periods within a match, we can look so rotten is the main issue. Maybe it's just memory playing its tricks. I know full well that within any game you have tougher moments and within every season you have bad games. Those tend to be forgotten. But I still feel this United just lack something in this department. Maybe it brings us back into the leadership debate. Yesterday we needed to concede a goal in order to start playing.

    I've no issues with the team long term, I've said it earlier this season when we were behind City. It's shaping up nicely and yesterday's football was brilliant at times. There's more of that to come. Problem right now is that when we didn't play brilliantly yesterday, we didn't play OK either - we were quite terrible. And we've moved between one or the other for large parts of the season. Maybe it's about experience, although yesterday team had a mix of youth and experience.
  29. Apr 23, 2012
    #69

    Leroy The Red Full Member

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    He's probably over critical considering the injuries and everything that we've dealt with this season but he does make a really solid point.
    The Complacency and arrogance we show at times is shocking. It's like the players think they can just turn up and it's three points. The lack of effort in tracking back, following a marker, passing the ball, making a run, I suppose that might have something to do with no natural leader but this is the first season where for me a United side are not putting in the full effort.

    This season has been more about the ability of our players than desire. Some of Rooneys performances for instance, he just kinda strolls around sometimes. Giving the ball away in the 1st half of games, over and over again, like he's trying to beat his previous weeks record.

    Then there's our wing backs whose lack of concentration when going backwards is amateurish.
    Then we have games where we just pass the ball sideways slowly over and over again because no one can be arsed. Like against Everton, we were shocking until we went behind than all of a sudden, players started making runs, we started making forward passes, we started trying. But before then, it was like an inconvenience for the players and that's what spaghettihair was saying really and I agree. Not sure about his other stuff though.
  30. Apr 23, 2012
    #70

    Inigo Montoya Full Member

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    What utter nonsense.

    Granted he did that against Villa but the game was won by then.To uggest he's done it over and over again just demonstrates how little some fans actually watch games:rolleyes:
  31. Apr 23, 2012
    #71

    Mockney Not the only poster to be named Poster of the Year

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    I'm all for being objetive and pragmatic, but anyone saying shit like that is a spoiled brat.

    Belongs on the Manchester United facebook page.
  32. Apr 23, 2012
    #72

    Inigo Montoya Full Member

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    Never been on there.Do they just spout shit all day long then?
  33. Apr 23, 2012
    #73

    Mockney Not the only poster to be named Poster of the Year

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  34. Apr 23, 2012
    #74

    Inigo Montoya Full Member

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  35. Apr 23, 2012
    #75

    Adebesi Full Member

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    Go go go Man U I love you best team in the world!!!!!!!!
  36. Apr 23, 2012
    #76

    Leroy The Red Full Member

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    Ironic.

    He has had countless games this season where he spends large periods of the first half sloppily passing the ball about, it wasn't just against Villa, he did it against Wolves too, not long ago. But feel free to carry on living in a dream world.
  37. Apr 23, 2012
    #77

    Inigo Montoya Full Member

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    I'll dream that one day you might actually post some sense but feel free to continue to post crap.

    Wloves not too long ago:lol:

    The 5-0 or the 4-1 where we were clearly struggling
  38. Apr 23, 2012
    #78

    Leroy The Red Full Member

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    See, that's the problem. People like you are too stupid to comprehend that even in victory it is possible to pick out things that weren't quite right. This'll come as news to you but there's more to football than just the scoreline.
  39. Apr 23, 2012
    #79

    Inigo Montoya Full Member

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    Yes there are so called fans like you. You see in football there are people who latch themselves onto football clubs based on success then feel free to criticise at every juncture.If this is your reaction at a 4-4 draw heaven help you if we do lose the title.You'll just implode....you're almost doing that now becuase you can't see how flawed your argument is...good luck with it:lol:
  40. Apr 23, 2012
    #80

    moses control

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    I have no idea either, yet.
    Picking out 'things that aren't quite right' is not what inspired this thread though. Nobody is saying the team is the finished article. And no need to suggest people can't look past the scoreline, although as an overview it's quite a decent overall indication of how things are.

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