Ravel Morrison | Sold to West Ham

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by ArmchairCritic, Oct 25, 2011.

  1. Jan 20, 2012

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

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    I agree. I don't see anything positive out of him leaving whatsoever. Let's say he does take his opportunities at a foreign club. That, for me, is as good as letting him go to city because they will be in for him and noone will be able to compete. From our perspective, the only beneficial situation is that he stays, even if its more money that were comfortable with, and then we can control the situation from there. Imagine the supposed best talent in 15 years from our academy leaving without even getting a chance in the first team. That's an absolute joke because we would have gotten a raw gem, worked hard on its edges and not even seen whether it really could have shone. Which doesnt mean we should have given him more chances already rather that we should do everything to make sure we give ourselves enough time to answer those questions in the future before we decide on him.

    And if he does go, I hope his demands really were ludacrious and I would hate for this to be about us being petty. Then again, I'm struggling to understand how clubs like roma and arsenal will be giving in to ludacrious demands. If its playing time we could just loan him there so I dont think its that. Surely its money.
  2. Jan 20, 2012

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

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    Also, the thing is, he looked superb on his two first team appearances. Looked like he was supposed to he there.
  3. Jan 20, 2012

    Varun Wants the D...

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    Am not really into italian football on a regular basis but is there really any chance he'l make the roma 1st team instantly? I'd be surprised if so.
  4. Jan 20, 2012

    Varun Wants the D...

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    We're supposed to be putting in a clause wherein we get to buy him before other clubs or something. whatever it is, doesnt really sound like a great plan to me. If we're banking on him not settling there and willing to pay him a higher wage after say a year(which we will have to if he moves to a club and earns more), why not pay it now itself and keep the lad. If the lad is actually worth all this hassle, surely it makes sense to make some room for him as far as the wages are concerned. With his talent, i dont really see how every young player would want similar wages. Its a one off for the youngsters just like it was for Rooney in the main team.

    Regarding arsenal, they are known to pay great wages to young players. Much higher than the norm, which is why they end up with so many young players in the first place.
  5. Jan 20, 2012

    Jimy_Hills_Chin Desperately wants to be ITK

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    We also have such a clause with Rossi, the problem is when they become worth 25 - 30m as Rossi has, we can't justify that fee.
  6. Jan 20, 2012

    Varun Wants the D...

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    This is always going to be different though. unlike Rossi, i dont think morrison will ever be able to settle in a foreign land. If he lasts there for a year, the price is likely to be closer to the 10mil mark which we can afford. Even then, as i'v said, we'd have to pay whatever wages roma pay him for the period at the least. That'l be considerably higher than what we're paying now. Why not do it now? An exception for the brightest talent in our academy if not the country when we did so an year back for our best player?
  7. Jan 20, 2012

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

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    My guess is you mean we would have the first option should Roma decide to sell him. I'm struggling to see the sense in that. Why would we bank on our own top talent going elsewhere and not settling? How does that do him any good? if anything those kind of experiences can kill the confidence of a young player. And if does do well, what if he doesn't want to come back or they don't want to sell him?

    If you mean we would be able to buy him back when we want to, then surely we'd want him to do well. That makes slightly more sense to me in the sense that he can get paid more till he does prove himself and from someone else's pocket but again, I simply don't see how letting a volatile young kid go to another country is correct if we have high hopes of him.

    I agree, if we truly believe in this kids ability, pay him a little extra now and take it from there. We arent exactly stocked in central midfield and going by his two appearances already, I don't see why he should have less opportunities at united than arsenal. He looks like he could slot our first team VERY soon and hopefully justify what we pay him. If not we can get rid but at our own convenience, but at least well be in charge then.
  8. Jan 20, 2012

    Varun Wants the D...

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    I meant the latter ofcourse. having a clause where we can buy him back whenever we want at a pre decided price. That is the only thing that'd make sense to me even though am not in favor of that too as i just said.

    Keep him here. Make an exception for the best talent we have. A kid like morrison should never be let out of sight, specially to a place like Rome.

    Its ridiculous whats happening tbh. The best talent we've had in years and we risk losing him for 500k without even a handful of first team appearances. Surely even him and his agent know that a choice between roma, newcastle and Us is not really a choice. Specially considering he's a local lad. Sad how important money is to fecking 18yr olds now. More so lads like morrison who know fully well that he's so bloody close to the first team and will surely get a hike when he makes a few appearances.

    We handed out new contracts to hernandez and smalling even though we didnt have to. We're great in that way. We gave them what their performances deserved even when we could have easily let them stay in their older contracts for much less. We've never fecked our players over in that respect. A lot of shite going on. Irritates the shit out of me having held such high hopes form him and pogba specially.
  9. Jan 20, 2012

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

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    And doesn't he look like the kind of player we really could do with? Granted I've seen a lot less of him than most of you but his technical ability to keep the ball and class on the ball is something that could hugely improve our team. Rather than a foreign name from a foreign land, we've got that sort of talent sitting in our reserves. I hope we make a few sacrifices and keep him because we've done a lot more for foreign talents who granted were more proven but often not a great deal.
  10. Jan 20, 2012

    Jimy_Hills_Chin Desperately wants to be ITK

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    I am of the thinking that SAF doesn't want to set a precedent, that if you have the talent then you can behave how you wish and push your luck in contract talks. I don't think that the ability of Ravel or how he fits into the squad is relevant anymore, I think it is more what him getting a lucrative contract would say to other youth players and their agents.
  11. Jan 20, 2012

    KM I’m afraid I just blue myself

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    You can't just reward a person who regularly misses trainings according to the reports actually. Also if people are expecting him to solve our midfield crisis, that won't happen as he isn't a proper midfielder.

    He doesn't deserve thirty thousand per week, the club shouldn't be held ransom to demands of a teenager who isn't a first team regular.
  12. Jan 20, 2012

    Inigo Montoya Full Member

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    Comparisons with Ronaldo and Giggs are absurd.

    Did you actually see Ronaldo's debut against Bolton? We won 4-0 at a canter,he got the crowd excited yes, but fall over? We are talking about a young man(Ravel) with a lot of hype, a lot of good performances in Youth and reserve football but as yet unproven in top flight.Yet you suggest we bend over backwards for players of this ilk simply because we're lacking a 'flair' player?
  13. Jan 20, 2012

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

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    But the ability of the player is ALWAYS relevant. If tomorrow the next zidane pops up through the ranks but still hasnt broken through to the first team are we going to pay him according to what Paul pogba might think? No, were going to do the necessary to tie him down for a long time.

    Obviously I'm using the great man to make a point rather than draw parallels. Point is you have to make exceptions for exceptional talents. Whether ravel is such a talent is obviously for the manager and his staff to decide.
  14. Jan 20, 2012

    Inigo Montoya Full Member

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    On the contrary, it ability plus attitude and professionalism that's relevant.

    How do you know that Morrison is an 'exceptional talent' if you haven't seen him play much never mind live?
  15. Jan 20, 2012

    Varun Wants the D...

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    It'd only tell them that the club made compromises considering the talent and ability of the guy in question. Similar to the message we sent to the entire 1st team by giving rooney a pay hike after the entire drama.

    Am not saying its the correct way to go. I've always believed that no player should be bigger than the club or the manager. But, its the way things are in world football. Every team makes a few arrangements to keep its best players and talents happy because if you dont, there are many clubs that are willing to do so who'd snatch the player given one chance.

    My only issue with the entire situation is that this roma arrangement, if true, clearly shoes how highly we rate the lad. If we're so sure of his qualities and dont want him going anywhere on a permanent basis, we should make a few compromises now itself. regarding other players and their agents, i dont think it'd have too much of an impact. Not many are close to morrison's level in the youth team and paying the best player there a tad extra isnt really going to get them all up in arms for similar deals.

    But then, his demands which i know nothing of are a very important factor here. Whatever it is, i do trust SAF to do whats best for the club. he always has. Rooney's episode being the prime example. He bit the bullet and did what was best for the club. He'l do so again. Its just that it'd be a shame if we were to lose him.
  16. Jan 20, 2012

    Inigo Montoya Full Member

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    Pure conjecture at the least

    Of course we've never survived big name departures
  17. Jan 20, 2012

    Jimy_Hills_Chin Desperately wants to be ITK

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    The coaching staff and the manager, if the transfer stories are true, obviously don't think that he has the right attitude to be a top class player. Or, at least, they think that the percentile chance of him making it is not worth the nonsense that comes with him.

    I just checked his twitter, seems to have spent yesterday evening arguing with his bird about her school sports day performance and the saggyness of her Mum's tits. Why on earth they are conducting such conversations on a public forum......I don't know.
  18. Jan 20, 2012

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

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    Who compared him to Giggs and Ronaldo? I used them to emphasize that we encourage flair. And he did very well in that game. Fergie's ire would have been directed at the players who started and were useless. I'm not actually judging ronaldos debut either. It was fantastic.

    Well I'm not actually suggesting we bend over backwards. Most of this is speculation. If he wants 40,000 he obviously can feck off. But IF we genuinely believe him to be truly special, then there's no harm in both parties conceding a little without us bending over backwards because keeping him will give us a lot of power. At least wed get somethjng near his value should we then sell him.
  19. Jan 20, 2012

    Varun Wants the D...

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    Care to elaborate?

    Do you believe us giving morrison few thousands extra is likely to make all young players demand similar money? I dont think so.

    If KMs 30k a week is true though, its ridiculous because no youth player should ever get that much.

    EDIT- the feck are you on about? did i ever say we'd not survive if he left? Stop sensationalising things. Ofcourse it'd be a shame if we lost our best talent for less than a million. doesnt mean we wouldnt survive which if you read again i never said.
  20. Jan 20, 2012

    dev1l Full Member

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    re: 'exceptional talent' comment. Talent alone doesn't get you anywhere...
  21. Jan 20, 2012

    prateik City Fan

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    Not if he keeps going the way he is.
    If Fergie thinks he is worth the trouble, he will be offered a new deal.
    If he doesnt, I'll trust the boss's judgement. It might be proved wrong in the future, but I'm fine with that.
  22. Jan 20, 2012

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

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    So you agree, that ability is always relevant. Because I never said other factors aren't.

    And did you actually read the last line? I clearly mentioned that it was for Fergie to decide whether he was one. I never actually gave my opinion on that. I said what I said if if were to be presumed that a player was one.
  23. Jan 20, 2012

    Inigo Montoya Full Member

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    You did! You've used 3 players, all time greats , retrospectively to justify your arguments for keeping Morrison(if indeed he is demanding a pay rise, move whatever).It's a flawed argument.

    We have no idea what's going on in terms of negotiations but if any player be it Morrison or player x perceives himself to be this great talent that the club can do without then I'm with a lot of posters in the opinion that he can find a club and career elsewhere.I'm not of the belief that we make concessions for any maverick, and TBH i don't think SAF does either.
  24. Jan 20, 2012

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

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    Again, we don't really know. Could be that they're fed up or that they're playing hard ball. Anyone's guess really. Although I do hope it is the latter.

    Yeah I don't quite ravels behavior over the whole issue. His tweets on the contract topic in particular are extremely unnecessary.
  25. Jan 20, 2012

    Inigo Montoya Full Member

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    You appear to be in conflict with your thoughts yourself over this.

    His behaviour is unecessary at times..yes

    He's this mecurial talent....possibly,I'd like to think so

    We should compromise...a little... but to what end?

    If he wants too much ..he should feck off
  26. Jan 20, 2012

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

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    I did not. How or when did I use 3 all time great to justify mg argument of keeping Morrison? It's like you invented that one.

    I simply used those examples to point out that flair and expression of it is encouraged by this football club. And hence I doubt a few flicks and tricks by him would have bothered Fergie. The players who started the game did world things like, you know, play terribly.

    Regarding making concessions for a maverick player, negotiations ALWAYS include compromisd from both parties. If you think ravels the only young talented player to negotiate a deal rather than accept one immediately then my guess is you'd be mistaken. Obviously I doubt many make demands like has that actually cause the manager to call them unrealistic but litter give and take here over a few thousand happens all the time. That's why its called negotiation. So I'm in favor of conceding a little IF we believe he is an exceptional talent.
  27. Jan 20, 2012

    Inigo Montoya Full Member

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    You might like to go back and read your own posts. You mentioned, Ronaldo,Giggs and Zidane either consciously or unconsciously in your debate.The implication is that we may have someone like that on our hands therefore we should make some concessions...ridiculous really.
  28. Jan 20, 2012

    Jimy_Hills_Chin Desperately wants to be ITK

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    True, the coaching staff could be trying to shock him. I mean I can't see Ravel making it in a foreign country, he just doesn't seem equiped for such an experience at this age.

    On the other hand, perhaps the coaching staff think that putting some considerable distance between Ravel and his life (friends) over here would be a good thing. That a selling him to a foreign club with a buy back option would be the safest course of action and his best chance of making it at this point.
  29. Jan 20, 2012

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

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    I'm certain this is not about money.

    Anyone remember United last losing a player on a free due to money, especially a talented youngster?
  30. Jan 20, 2012

    Inigo Montoya Full Member

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    I know there's a first time but when have we ever exercised that option, or indeed when have we ever even had a a buy back option? i know there was some talk about Rossi at Villareal but wasn't it just a rumour?

    As for Morrison being sold, if that does happen I feel the door would be closed.Just my opinion.
  31. Jan 20, 2012

    Varun Wants the D...

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    You've taken the context of it all wrong. read the post he was quoting and you'l understand what he meant.
  32. Jan 20, 2012

    Varun Wants the D...

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    What do you think its about then sults? It cant really be about playing time, can it? SAF specifically said that morrison's demands were unrealistic. sounds like money to me.
  33. Jan 20, 2012

    Inigo Montoya Full Member

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    No, can't remeber one at all. I can think of a few talented youngsters leaving and having decent careers but none i'd say we've 'missed the boat' in any way.
  34. Jan 20, 2012

    Inigo Montoya Full Member

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    That's been a topic of debate on here since he said it. Quite an ambigious statement if ever i heard one:lol:
  35. Jan 20, 2012

    prateik City Fan

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    Fergie said his demands were unrealistic
    If his agent wants ~50k, the club wont even start negotiating till they get realistic.
    I dont know what his agent wants, but I can see it being about the money.
  36. Jan 20, 2012

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

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    A talented boy causing so much stir who might or might not make it in football. I can't even imagine his how inflated his ego and bad attitude be would if he ever makes the grade. Unless he changes his ways dramatically he's best getting out of this club. Don't really care if he becomes the next Messi.

    He can start by deleting his social media accounts.
  37. Jan 20, 2012

    Varun Wants the D...

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    Yep. Typical SAF though. Never letting stuff that should remain private out in the open. Has to be about money though. Dont really see any other 'demands' that morrison could make.
  38. Jan 20, 2012

    acrebo Full Member

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    SAF and the club have dealt with enough young egos over the years to handle this in the best way.

    I cannot believe for a moment that anyone on this forum knows better than SAF how to handle a character like Morrison. He's long been proven the best man-manager of young players in football (and not just in a Wenger-way of "show my faith by throwing them into the first team and watch them sink or swim").
  39. Jan 20, 2012

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

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    :lol:

    You just added 2 and 2 and came up with 241. Ridiculous really.
  40. Jan 20, 2012

    Jimy_Hills_Chin Desperately wants to be ITK

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    I am 95% certain that I can remember SAF mentioning the Rossi buy back clause/first option in an interview

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