Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by shamans, Jul 11, 2018.
Didn’t Real sack Capello, because of his defensive style even though he had just won them La Liga?
I mean, if there has ever been a club that won’t make compromise with their style it’s Madrid.
Barcelona at the time were arguably the greatest footballing team of all time. Mourinho still won a La Liga against them while setting a bunch of league and european records.
Mou will fallout with everyone again. He will also complain about not being backed enough in the transfer market. I am ready to bet that if he does indeed go to Real Madrid again, he will not win a La Liga or CL.
what order did he restore? He lost regularly to Barcelona and Atletico.
That he did. He still failed to deliver CL. That is what defines success at real madrid
Just a little something we call "La Decima"
I won't stand for you cnuts bad mouthing the great man Carletto.
la decima did not rectify anything. Madrid had been in the semis for 3 seasons prior and zidane added 3 more after, all the while still struggling to top barcelona domestically
Just like PSG where interested in him..
Mendes is good at this media thing.
Madrid should hire him right away. Everyone wins then.
The Champions league means a great deal to Madrid. Semis not so much. They had not won the UCL since 2002. What Zidane did subsequently doesn't devalue that 10th European crown.
The discussion is not about what la decima meant to madrid (being regular semis meant they were close enough and didnt win it out of the blue), but that with ancelotti they were still struggling against Barcelona and even atletico started having the advantage. No thing was restored in that regard.
How did finally winning the CL again, the biggest trophy in the sport, the one that historically defines the club, and the one we were desperate to win(fun fact, winning the league was nice. Ask any madridista about the 11/12 season, 8/10 will tell you he was more disappointed for not winning the CL rather than happy for the league)
Mourinho was very good for us. He was also ultimately a failure. Ancelotti was great.
Since that season this is what the top 3 in Spain win:
- Atletico: 1 league.
- Barcelona: 1 CL and 3 leagues.
- Real Madrid: 4 CLs and 1 league.
If I had to choose one outcome I would pick the latter.
Mourinho was not a failure cos of where he started from and what he achieved. He took a team that had been kicked out of CL in R16 for 6 seasons to 3 consecutive semis and managed to win the league while playing against Pep's barcelona. prior to mouringo madrid was a joke in the CL, losing to teams like lyon and finishing second in their group.
Ancelotti won CL building on what Mourinho did, but failed to win the league going against lesser managers like Martino and Enrique. He rode his luck in the CL.
Ancelotti was fortunate to win la decima, and his failure to improve was why he was sacked. He had a poor record against barcelona and atletico.
3 of those CL and that league title were won by Zidane not ancelotti.
the debate was not about who has been more successful recently but the claim that ancelotti restored some sort of order against Barcelona.
Yes, mouirnho was great. Ancelotti, Zidane were lucky. Please start waving hankies with sign mourinho on them @real fans. Please.
The difference between Mourinho not winning a CL and Ancelotti/Zidane winning was luck. They should have 100% won it in 2012, just missed the extra bit of luck that’s been going their way in the past few years.
it was always amusing when people like you assign false claims to others cos it seems the only way you can seem to say something when you really have nothing of value to say
its not about value of opinion, how can one say Mourinho did a good job there, knowing what preceeded and proceeded him, knowing what he did for us. God what an awful opinion to have, its just baffling. It actually raises my blood pressure that you could be so clueless. I mean if he failed by playing beautiful football.... no, he failed, lost 5-0 to barca with Pepe in midfield, he shat on Real Madrid’s values, played terrible football.. Hmwhy does this man have so many protectors.
You really need to chill out. It ain't healthy.
Nope, it was Mourinho's terrible cowardly tactics in the SF's second leg vs Bayern that costed them probably a Champions league win in 2012. Next year, he played Pepe in midfield against Dortmund and lost 4:1 in the first leg of the semifinal...
You're trying to tell a real madrid fan how to judge our own managers
You are wrong. Period. There's nothing else to say really
Oh, Mourinho's record against barcelona wasn't too good either. Atletico were mediocre until his final season where, guess what, he lost a final against them, at the bernabeu
We should have won in 2012. Mourinho chickened out against Bayern and we didn't
and you represent every madridsta?
No, you are wrong as you have shown nothing that disproves what i stated
Strawman cos I never said mourinho's record was great, only that Ancelotti wasnt any better. This is a fact and not subject to your opinion as a madrid fan.
No, but my opinion is a widely held one among the fanbase
Mourinho was hired to win the CL. He failed to win the CL. That's called failure.
I disregarded that whole argument because it's meaningless, but since you kept pushing it....it is still a meaningless argument. H2H means nothing unless there are trophies attached
They were better than the opposition even though Mourinho made mistakes. Ancelotti and Zidane made mistakes too, they just got an extra bit of luck and won anyway
No, that's the point. We were a better team than Bayern, and they battered us for most of the tie. They deservedly won the first leg, then in the second we went up 2-0 early, then conceded a penalty on the counter, and from that moment we quite literally stopped playing football and pretty much decided we'drather take our chances with penalties than try to score again. We only even made it to penalties because bayern weren't good enough to put away their chances. It was quite simply a disgusting performance, at home, against a weaker team, and after going 2 goals up early on top of it.
If you had won the penalty shootout it would have stopped being disgusting, same way that the 2016 CL final wasn't disgusting for playing that way against a clearly inferior team.
I agree that Mourinho got it wrong, but with the second leg being 2-1 and Madrid needing 2 if Bayern scored 1 it's a bit understandable that he played conservately.
In 2014 the first leg against Bayern was probably even more defensive, in 2017 if Vidal puts away the penalty to make it 2-0 you'd have probably gone out, in 2018 I don't even need to talk about it... very small margins that changed the final result, change the perspective on any tactical decisions the managers made and they change how those teams get remembered. If you win that penalty shootout he'd never get criticized for playing the way he did, instead he'd be treated like a God in Madrid for winning La Decima and a 100 points league title in the same season vs Pep's Barcelona.
Yes. So? We lost.
Btw, little similarity between that SF amd the 16 final, a game we didn't play well for sure, but we were the better team overall and tried to win until the end
Better team, at home, with Cristiano at his peak. No, it really wasn't understandable at all. Defending a 3-1 lead would have been. Playing for penalties, absolutely not.
2014 first leg against bayern, you mean the same game after which several big bayern figures including Rumenigge and Beckenbauer commented that they'd been lucky to only lose 1-0, that given the balance of play that was a good result for them. Because we could have easily have scored 5. There is no comparison between those two games.
All true. But we didn't win. And that's all that matters in the end.
I agree with you, Mourinho failed at Madrid. Lots of people argue that he did well in getting you to the semifinals since you didn't get past the round of 16 for 6 years or something like that but not getting to a Champions League final with Ronaldo and a great squad behind him in 3 years is most definitely a failure. What I'm saying is that ultimately he could have done everything exactly the same way and be considered a success instead of a failure if only he'd gotten the extra bit of luck the following managers got.
Very small margins separating the 2011/12 season from 2013/14 or 2016/17. I believe there is a much bigger percentage of Madrid fans that would like Mourinho back than what you're portraying here too. I think it would be a terrible choice but plenty of fans would love the drama of it all.
Madrid taking Mourinho back would be a terrible mistake. The man is past it and does not have the mental fortitude and self possesion to handle what is arguably the biggest pressure cooker of a manging job in football. The white hankies would be flying after 2 games and he'd be bitching at AS and Marca after 3.
it'd be great for us though We wouldn't have to pay the rest of his contract
Let him go, then he can manager Bale as he has talked about.
Oh i know that. And i also know that Florentino is one of them
And i worry
We got him at the right time, he did the job we needed him to do ultimately, we parted ways, good for everyone. Bringing him back now would be a disaster
An hilariously enternaining disaster though
There is that
and yet there are rumors that many want Mourinho back. Seems you live in an echo chamber.
Since you are obviously not Perez, you have no idea why he was hired.
You have no rebuttal for the actual argument and thus made up your own argument - thanks but not interested
Of course there are. There were many people who celebrated him for gouging Tito's eye, too. The two groups tend to overlap
More people don't want him back. Unfortunately, Perez is the only one who matters
We're Real Madrid. The ultimate goal is always to win the CL. We hired Mourinho on the back of him winning the CL with Inter. It was his european credentials that convinced Perez to hire him. The success of a real madrid manager's tenure, especially under the rule of Florentino Perez, is ultimately defined by what he does in Europe, with the only exception being massive domestic success. Mourinho cleared most of the hurdles but failed at the last one, which was the most important. Thus, failure. Unless you're one them cultists who believe the club's success post Mou was also entirely thanks to him. There are people like that
You're actual argument being winning 4 CL in 5 years isn't "restoring order" because we had a poor h2h record against barcelona and atletico?
Unless you kniw the opinion of every madridista, you can only speak for yourself.
You are a fan, si stop deluding yourself that you represent Real Madrid. Only Perez knows why he hired Mourinho and only he can judge his success or failure.
While the cL success is not entirely thanks to him but he was responsible for the foundation on which it was built. Mourinho's tenure was a turning point for Real Madrid in CL where they moved from perennial R16 exits to almost constant semis and finals appearances.
That is the argument that you made up. Advise that you read the actual posts and not go off on what you have imagined.
Separate names with a comma.