Real Madrid need to get ready for a terrible season

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by shamans, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. Aug 8, 2018
    #81

    MadMike Full Member

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    The problem with that hypothesis, is that he used to be a high scoring striker playing with/next to Ronnie.

    His last 3 seasons have gone like this...

    season__apps__goals
    15-16___36___28
    16-17___48___19
    17-18___47___12

    He's been in decline while playing in the same setup under the same manager. There's no guarantee whatsoever he will recover the form of 3-4 years ago now that Ronaldo and Zidane are gone and there'll be more pressure on him than ever to deliver.

    In my opinion, Real should cut the cord and build a new attack with Bale, Asensio and a new striker. Otherwise this season could go quite badly.
  2. Aug 8, 2018
    #82

    RoyH1 Full Member

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    For a club that notoriously eats its own, Benzema is probably the most protected player I've ever seen for them. Both press but also Perez himself protect him in ways that I've never seen for any player down there. And I don't think it will end now for some reason.
  3. Aug 8, 2018
    #83

    MadMike Full Member

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    The media have been on Benzema's back for quite a while and reportedly Flo has not been a fan of his over the last few years either, but he was vociferously protected by Zidane. He would time and again defend him in front of the media, and it's hard to argue with a manager who wins 3 CLs in a row.

    Now with Zidane gone it would only take 1 mediocre season from him and the team for him to become an outcast past redemption. I personally consider this course if not inevitable, then at least very highly probable. Hence I think they should expedite the process and cash in on him while he still retains some value. He's 30yo, this might be their last chance to offload him for a decent price. Because at 31, with the wages he's on and another bad season behind him there will be no takers whatsoever.
  4. Aug 8, 2018
    #84

    noodlehair "It's like..."

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    To be fair, it's hard to keep up a standard of winning the Champions League every year, and they've manufactured a situation in La Liga where it's impossible for anyone outside of Barcelona and Athletico to compete.
  5. Aug 8, 2018
    #85

    Zehner Full Member

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    They'll be fine. Probably won't win the CL because you need much luck for that but their squad even now looks great. The Ronaldo exit will hit them hard but a lot depends on whether Benzema and Bale can go back to their old selves. Especially Benzema who once was one of the best goalscorers in Europe played a supporting role. He still has it in him.

    However, I believe that they'll buy someone now that the WC jetlag has finally settled in. If they, for instance, would buy Icardi and Hazard I'd say they are even stronger than before. Can't imagine that they'll take the risk and trust their current squad.

    Yet, it is a really awkward situation for Madrid. Their typical policy was to buy still rather young players who were already world class like Benzema, Ronaldo, Özil, James, Kroos, Bale etc. so that they'd either profit from their prime for years to come or could sell them for even more.
    Currently, there is no such player around. Hardly anyone in the range of 23-24 has Madrid quality. Maybe Kane, Icardi at 25 would also be okayish I guess.
  6. Aug 8, 2018
    #86

    MikeUpNorth Wobbles like a massive pair of tits

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    The fact Real Madrid, flush with cash and in need of players, are struggling to find anyone worth buying says it all about this summer's market. A real lack of available talent.
  7. Aug 8, 2018
    #87

    Giant Midget Aka - rooney_10119

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    Everytime I’ve seen Benzema, he gets into goalscoring positions but fluffs his chances. I don’t think his poor return is because he’s focusing on playing a supportive role.
  8. Aug 8, 2018
    #88

    Inter Yer Nan Full Member

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    I think it will be an interesting season. I doubt they can win the Champions League AGAIN - 3 in a row is already too crazy. I think they will get more out of their young players and perhaps Bale (if he stays fit) stepping up. Asensio could really have a breakout season.

    Ultimately I think they will come 3rd again but I think they will come back into the transfer market with a bit of vengeance next summer sort of like 2009.
  9. Aug 8, 2018
    #89

    Darwin09 Theory of Thread Pollution

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    History has shown time and time again, losing a player of that caliber almost always results in an extended period of poor results. I would extend that analogy to all team sports. It's difficult to rebuild when a team has been built for many years around a superstar. In this particular case, how many times over the past years has Ronaldo made the difference for Madrid? It's countless. Just look at our CL tie a few seasons back, where he scored their only goal at the Bernabeu and then another at OT when they won 2-1 (after the infamous Nani red card). The examples go on and on. It will be extremely difficult for them this year.
  10. Aug 8, 2018
    #90

    Synco Full Member

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    I think a lot will depend on the question if & how fast Lopetegui can install a more team-oriented style. There's plenty of room to improve in terms of 11 players defending as a unit, and also when it comes to well-coordinated attacking moves. It's gonna be very interesting how it all works out without Ronaldo & Zidane.
  11. Aug 8, 2018
    #91

    Zehner Full Member

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    But in contrast to many of these examples, Real Madrid has been preparing for this moment for years. Usually when a golden generation comes to an end, the clubs failed to set up successors for their stars. This squad still has a ridiculous amount of talent and the age structure is still pretty decent. Isco, Kroos, Casemiro, Varane, Carvajal, Courtois and even Bale are in their best years and on the right side of 30. Marcelo, Ramos and Modric are experienced veterans and there are extremely talented and hungry youngsters like Asensio, Ceballos, Vinicius Junior, Odegaard and Llorente. And there's enough fluctuation that the established players can't lay back and relax, with the Zidane and Ronaldo exit maybe even being a wake up call. Benzema isprobably the weak spot since he hasn't shown his scoring capabilities for quite a while. That's where they will miss Ronaldo but a striker like Icardi, Cavani, Lewandowski or a similar calibre would be fully able to score 30-40+ goals a season with such a team behind him.

    I think that's the difference to the situations you are referring to which often come hand in hand with an ageing squad and a lack of hungry, young talents. I think this is the positive aspect of Real Madrid's rather ungrateful treatment of their merited players - they pay you tribute but if they feel you aren't good enough anymore, they kindly show you where you can find the exit. Bayern exemplarily is the opposite. You have many earned players that aren't up to the stress anymore and in some cases may even have lost their absolute desire but they are untouchable which makes it hard to find patient successors that may wait years although they already play better throughout a season.
  12. Aug 8, 2018
    #92

    londonredmaniac I suffer delusions of grandeur

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    Aye I’d be gutted to be them right now
  13. Aug 8, 2018
    #93

    El-Buitre New Member

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    Winning 4 cl in the last 5 years i'm sure we can handle a terrible season :P
  14. Aug 9, 2018
    #94

    Scroto Baggins Full Member

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    RM need to replace Benzema with Kane next season, and probably grab Pochettino while they are at it. End up paying off 50% of Spurs' remaining debt on the stadium though to get them however.
  15. Aug 9, 2018
    #95

    Beagle New Member

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    Agreed. It will probably be a struggle for them compared to their standards. But if we look at their squad closely it is still one of the strongest in Europe. But this is a club which wants to win the Champions League all the time and failing to do so is considered a failure. If they fail to win both the CL and League I'm sure we will see a new manager next year, possibly a squad overhaul along with it.
  16. Aug 9, 2018
    #96

    RoyH1 Full Member

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    Madrid have their own stadium refurbish to finance so I don't see them doing that. I don't rule Kane out, but I think they'll buy a striker to compete with Benzema and see how he pans out. Icardi and Werner are possibilities in this transfer window for them.
  17. Aug 9, 2018
    #97

    GatoLoco New Member

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    Out of curiousity, how highly do you rate Timo Werner?
  18. Aug 9, 2018
    #98

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scout

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    Poor old Courtois is in for a tough time against Atletico...



  19. Aug 9, 2018
    #99

    simonhch Horrible boss

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  20. Aug 9, 2018

    Gasolin Full Member

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    Ok, this is nice, I hope he gets that. He has been disgraceful as a professional player.
  21. Aug 9, 2018

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    They haven’t done this one single time though... or was Ronaldo not good enough anymore? Letting Zidane, Ronaldo and Modric go because they have made agreements with them is nothing like Bayern’s situation with Robben and Ribery. Comparing them like you’re doing is so wrong... Ronaldo and Modric were their two best players. They’re not selling them (or close to doing it) because they believe them to not be good enough.

    You talk about their fantastic young squad who are full of young players that are nowhere near as good as you seem to rate them and they’re most definitely never going to be as good as Ronaldo or Modric. The amount of money they’ve wasted on youngsters instead of signing proven players that could have helped the last years of their Ronaldo-Modric-Marcelo-Ramos spine has been incredible. Instead they’ve completely tore it apart and gave up on winning more Champions Leagues like they’d have been big favourites to do next season. They missed out on Mbappe last year because they weren’t willing to pay extra wages, this season they’ve been looking at loads of players and no top forward has forced a move out. Ronaldo wanted to leave, Modric wants to leave, Kovacic wanted to leave. Navas wanted to stay, he’s been great for them and Perez signs Courtois because he’s been against Navas ever since he’s been at the club.

    Benzema keeps being the most protected player in world football, he must secretly be Perez’s son. Pochettino refused them, Allegri refused them... they aren’t willing to pay the prices of the current market and it’s why they’ve repeatedly failed to get who they wanted. Perez
    doesn’t just want to win trophies, he wants to win them with certain players he clearly has a preference for.

    Madrid have won what they’ve done in recent years in spite of Perez, not because of him. It’s been terrible transfer windows one after the other. Last season was hilariously bad after letting Morata go, clearly needing a goalscorer to replace him and then missing out on Kyllian freaking Mbappe because they’d rather pay 30 million for Theo Hernandez rather than give Mbappe what he wanted. This season it’s been even worse.

    Instead of doing a slow and conservative transformation from this generation to the next, they’ve blown it all up along with the chance of winning a fourth Champions League in a row which will now have very low chances of happening. It’s one thing to replace the legends of the club when it’s good for the club, it’s another to have the coach and the 2 best players wanting to leave after winning 3 Champions Leagues in a row.

    They should have gone into the season with Zidane as manager, Ronaldo up top, Modric in midfield and then Hazard and a striker on top of it. They might still win the league anyway because they have a very good squad but there can be no doubt in thinking this has been a disaster of a summer for Real Madrid. I believe they’ll sell Modric either this season or next since he’s clear he wants to leave, get Savic from Lazio and not get a striker. Next year Perez will finally fulfill the wet dreams he’s been having about Neymar for years... and they won’t win another CL with him as president.
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
  22. Aug 9, 2018

    Needham Full Member

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    For me, that comfortably tops the original 5 in a row you won. Agree?
  23. Aug 9, 2018

    Zehner Full Member

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    He's very good but I don't think the solution to Madrid's problems. Has great pace, hunger and physical strength on top of a decent technique and finishing but I think he currently gets carried away a lot. Most often he isn't patient enough and makes many runs on the wing, even if he is playing as a center forward so that the penalty area is not occupied when he is playing. His goal scoring is very inconsistent because of that.

    In all honesty, I think you want to believe they have had a devastating summer because you want Real Madrid to be punished for not honouring your favourite player enough. The same reason of why you downplayed their current squad last season which was easily on par with every other team in the world, even without Ronnie.

    They got rid of Ronaldo because they simply didn't think his salary demands were cost-effective for them any longer. He already was subpar throughout great parts of the season, needs more and more rests and they were obviously not willing to take the uncertainties. That's the cold and rational approach which brought Madrid to the top. There's no loyalty, the club is much bigger than any individual, instead it is about aligned interests for rather brief periods of time. Ask Robben, Sneijder, Robinho, Casillas, Özil and Isco. It is the exact opposite at Bayern so therefore the comparison is fitting. From a rational POV, Bayern shold definitely have gotten rid of Robbery since they are not fit enough to play a complete season as starters and get angry if they are benched but the club's insane loyalty instead lets them constantly give out contract extensions.

    Their transfer policy is still on point if you ask me. They get so many promising youngsters for almost laughable fees it is unreal. And they recklessly initiate the transition as soon as they feel it is time for it. You want them to sign established players that directly help the team but this is the exact opposite to the strategy which set them up for their historic CL run. If they spend big it is for players below 25 years and currently, there really isn't any available player around who would directly help them and also is young enough. The only one I could think of is probably Dybala and maybe Icardi (with 25 he's pretty old for Madrid standards). They simply stick to their principles.
    By the way, paying 180m for a 18 year old is not a no brainer but a risk which they understandably avoided. Not saying it was the right decision but it is definitely not as clear as you describe it. I doubt that any club which is not boosted by oil money (directly or indirectly, e.g. through a 220m Neymar deal) would do such a thing.
    In the end, Madrid still has one of the most talented squads in international football this season as well as a very good coach who could fit perfectly to players like Kroos, Isco, Modric, Ceballos, Marcelo, Asensio and Llorente. Their only weak spot is Benzema and it is still possible that they buy a competitor for him.
    Ah and by the way, according to most sources, it was Zidane who didn't want additional transfers, e.g. a Morata replacement (which would've been crucial when Ronaldo was injured and Benzema out of form). So yeah, they'll be fine. Too good to fail.
  24. Aug 10, 2018

    RoyH1 Full Member

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    A lot of signs that Modric is serious about leaving. Been reading that Italy’s favorable tax regime is extremely attractive to many players and Modric wants to try something new
  25. Aug 10, 2018

    NoPace Full Member

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    Yeah, seems like they should have sold Benzema to someone in Italy for 30M and bought a 9 who could get 15-20 more goals this year, but maybe they'll go hard for Kane next year.
  26. Aug 10, 2018

    Scroto Baggins Full Member

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    Grab Pochettino and Eriksen as well, but I dont think even RM has that kind of money, how much would Kane be worth? 150mil? Eriksen is contracted to 2020 so could get him for 50 maybe if he doesnt renew his contract. If he signs a new and improved long term deal with Spurs he will cost around 100mil as well given he's in the same class as Coutinho who went for 110ish? And you would have to pay out Pochettino's contract, not sure what Spurs would want for in compensation for Pochettino.
  27. Aug 10, 2018

    RoyH1 Full Member

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    I don't think Levy lets Kane go for anything less than Neymar money (specially now with his new wages).

    If Eriksen is not signed to a new contract then he might be a possiblity for them in 2019. Levy would have to negotiate. It would still take a pretty penny.
  28. Aug 10, 2018

    B20 HALA MADRID!

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    I wasn't around at the time, but from reading about that side I think as a fan I'd choose to be around to watch the Di Stefano side over this one if I could.
  29. Aug 10, 2018

    Casanova85 New Member

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    Mediocre transition year, surpassed by both Atlético and Barça. If Modric eventually leaves it will be even worse.

    Pérez will aim for Neymar, Kane and a new manager for 19/20. It's obvious he is into some sort of financial trouble this summer.
  30. Aug 10, 2018

    NikkiCFC New Member

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    I don't understand Real at all. They won title two seasons ago because of big squad and a lot of rotation. Morata and James were most important players by giving them 6, 7 wins by them self. After season ends they sold them both.
    Now they finished third and lost manager, best player and very important player in Kovacic. They didn't strengthen the squad at all. Barcelona won title and is much stronger now with Arthur, Vidal and Malcolm.

    Of course they won CL but more because of luck, controversial decisions and rookie mistakes by opponents. This season with this squad can't see them doing better than third again.
  31. Aug 10, 2018

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    They’re bad enough to fail, they might win but as it stands they have a worse squad than barcelona and arguably Atleti. Winning nothing is failing, this is Real Madrid. 4 CLs in the past 5 years is already history.

    They didn’t let Ronaldo go because his contract wasn’t worth it in the present, they had an agreement just like they did with Zidane and they have with Modric. You’re dreaming and ignoring what every single journalist wrote on the subject again. At best they didn’t believe he’d be worth those wages in 4 years at 37 years old, nothing to with the present... and that’s no insult to absolutely anybody since they’ve been doing that to everybody. Hence why Modric wants to leave too, no top forwards are forcing their way in and they’ve missed out on every top target. They aren’t willing to spend big so they don’t get the best players.

    I love how you call Lopetegui a very good manager, do you have any idea who you’re talking about? Come to Porto and speaking his name will immediately get you kicked out of the city. That’s how terrible he was.

    Winning three CLs in a row, losing your manager, failing to sign your 10 favourites for the job, settling for Lopetegui while creating a huge dispute in the Spanish NT, going into the summer needing to sign a goalscorer and selling your 45 goal per season forward who just happens to be your best player ever, having your second best player wanting to leave, having Kovacic wanting to leave, failing to sign any forward... Thinking I’m calling it a devastating summer as punishment rather than because it’s an obvious fact is incredible. They’ll win things anyway because they still have plenty of good players, but they’ll win in a lot less than what they could have won.

    They’ve won 3 CLs in a row and willingly killed every chance they had of winning another one next season for fecks sake. It’s beyond stupid. Generations like these don’t grow on trees. You talk about their brilliant young players who will most likely not even get close to being starters for Real Madrid nevermind hit the heights that Zidane team was doing. You talk about Ceballos and Llorente, who the feck are those? Vallejo, Valverde, Theo hernandez, Odriozola, Rodrygo, Vinicius Junior They’ve destroyed their core of legends not after they were done, but in the middle of it. And they did it in order to buy those young players who will never be fit to tie their laces...

    You claim their only weak spot is Benzema when their midfield was dying and calling for improvements last season, Kroos didn’t even bother last season so this season it will probably be worse, Bale is their only forward who is consistently great and he’ll most likely get injured for half the season, Carvajal was terrible last season, Marcelo still has no replacement, they’ll continuously get exposed down the wings defensively as their defense has obviously had loads of problems. Difference is now they don’t have Ronaldo to bail them out in attack or his back to hide behind while he takes the criticism. So yes, loads more problems in this team than Karim Benzema.

    All of these changes will give them motivation and I believe they’ll fight for the title against a Barcelona team who will be focused on the CL but there can be no doubt this has been a terrible summer and that their squad has massively lost quality in order to build a future with youngsters who are far from being guaranteed successes. Also, they’ve won what they’ve won in the past few years in spite of their transfer strategy, not because of it.
  32. Aug 10, 2018

    GatoLoco New Member

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    Core of legends destroyed? Ronaldo is the only one having left, and he's 33 years old. Letting him go is hardly a mistake of biblical proportions after enjoying him in the 24-33 years old bracket. Kovacic is good, but he's replaceable in the market.
  33. Aug 10, 2018

    thegregster Harbinger of new information

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    For the next three weeks they will not have the problem of big spending PL clubs competing with them.

    Loads of good players in France,Italy,Germany etc for them to target now.
  34. Aug 10, 2018

    pascell Full Member

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    As soon as I read this, I went into the Transfer Tweet thread and there they were linked with Thiago
  35. Aug 10, 2018

    Karappa New Member

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    The club is in the best position in years. Flush with cash after not spending a lot on new players in years (I think the net spend for the last 4 or 5 years is below 100 Mio alltogehter), the stadium rebuild about to get started, 4 CL wins in 5 years, got rid of the Ronaldo problem at the right time (and yes, I consider this the moment he would have passed from the best in the world to being a liability because his last season was very mixed, terrible in the league in the first half, but stellar in the CL, then 2 great months, but then he went into hiding again, in the semis and the final he was a non-factor).

    The squad is strong enough to compensate the exits, the goalkeeper situation is settled for the next 10+ years with Courtois and Lunin, the defense is solid as a rock, midfield is still the best in the world with Casemiro - Modric - Kroos and the attack will be interesting because now that Ronaldo is gone other players have the chance to step up. The last few years everything was focussed on CR, now Bale has the chance to show if he is really as good as he thinks. Asensio has the opportunity to become the next big star. Vinicius is an exciting young prospect with raw speed reminding of the two Ronaldos in their youth.

    As a Real fan I'm confident this season will be a positive surprise. I don't think we will be allowed to win the CL again but the most likely outcome will be the league title with Barca focussing more on the CL and VAR being a stepping stone for them after not getting a penalty called against them in over 2 years.

    This is the season of opportunities for a lot of players to show their worth now that they can get out of the shadow of CR. And it's smart by the club not to make any panic buys. Let this season play out and see who can be the pillars of the future. And if some don't live up to the hype at least that leaves no questions. Everyone gets their chances, now they have to take it. If they aren't good enough, at least we'll definitively know after this season.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  36. Aug 10, 2018

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    Zidane left and Modric wants out. But the point is that you’re clearly focusing on the next generation rather than the current one, a look at your transfers in the past few years shows it clearly.

    The club decided it was the end of this generation when with a couple of additions it could have easily continued for longer. They decided an unmotivated squad that fecked up in the league after winning the double was done when it blatantly wasn’t and they purposely killed off the team that is the 3 time CL winner and gave up on going for 4 in a row because Perez prefers dreaming about Neymar than dreaming about the 14th Champions League.

    From Madrid’s point of view, Zidane should have stayed, Ronaldo should have stayed and Hazard plus a striker should have came in. Easily achievable with the money you guys have and you’d have been favourites to win the CL again, only reason that didn’t happen is you have 300 million saved up for Neymar and spent about 200 million on youngsters who will never even be starters. You gave up on the Ramos-Marcelo-Modric-Ronaldo generation to try to start a new one, not only does it show an incredible lack of gratitude but it’s also a wrong footballing decision.

    Winning 4 CLs in 5 years spoiled you to a point where most Madrid fans won’t even mind it if they don’t win it next season and that should never happen, especially at Real Madrid of all teams.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  37. Aug 10, 2018

    Karappa New Member

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    Zidane left because he felt he couldn't squeeze another successful season out of the squad which directly contradicts your statement that the core of legends was still in the middle of their successful run.

    And as far as Modric goes, you're quoting the press. In Ronaldo's case he himself said he wants to leave, in Modric's case it's just the press and other people which leads me to believe he just wants more money - and rightfully so. He will stay without any doubt at least until next summer.
  38. Aug 10, 2018

    AgentP Full Member

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    Real might start getting active in the market now that the EPL clubs are out of the way.
  39. Aug 10, 2018

    Karappa New Member

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    I don't think so because there aren't that many holes to fill:

    The defense is set even with Theo leaving, Reguilon looked good on the tour and Nacho is a very competent left back (where he played primarily in his Castilla days). Makes no sense to go after the Sandros or Roses if you're looking for a backup.

    Midfield is set too, even with Kovacic leaving. For one I think he is overrated by a lot of people. He has some flashes of brillance and a nice move-set but apart from some single matches it never quite come together for him. And what's worse in my opinion he didn't improve and progress at all during his 3 years at the club. A career backup but nothing more. He could light it up at Chelsea and in the EPL because he's your typical box-to-box midfield player but I'm not sure he could ever be a starting player at RM. If Odegaard and Fede get loaned out again someone could be brought in. Thiago makes most sense then because Bayern want to sell him and he would fit in easily.

    In attack the wings are set, where there's an obvious hole at first glance would be striker. But with Benzema staying, Asensio probably playing a lot of games as false 9 and one of Borja and de Tomas staying as backup I think this is more than enough. Bringing in a top striker would hinder Asensio's development, this is his season to shine and take over. If he isn't able to do it or Benzema falls off the cliff completely there's always next summer and another transfer window.
  40. Aug 10, 2018

    MrEleson New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2014
    Messages:
    104
    I disagree. While still not able cement a place in the starting XI, he's improved a great deal from when he arrived at the club. No more is he erratic in his play like back then when he would give the ball away like crazy or run into brick walls. He's matured considerably in his decision making - knowing when to go on his marauding runs or when to sit back and recycle possession. He's also improved his work-rate and defensive game considerably since then - more capable of shadowing his man and making clean last ditch tackles (was able to successfully mark Messi out of the game in the 2017 Spanish Super Cup). He is a far far more intelligent player now than when he joined. Back then he could give you a solid 7/10 some games but other games give shocking 1/10 performance. He was that raw and inconsistent. Nowadays, I haven't really seen his performance drop below a certain level when he's been given the chance to play.

    There's a huge goals vacuum in attack unless everyone steps up tremendously because even before Ronaldo was sold they needed another striker. By now it's clear that Benzema isn't reliable as a goalscoring option. Asensio is still largely unproven in this department and Borja Mayoral certainly can't be counted on as he's not even Madrid bench quality. That leaves just Gareth Bale as the sole goalscorer with some sort of pedigree left. One injury to him would really leave the club in serious lack of options. Guys like Isco would have to improve their numbers drastically for this to work. And vinicius will have to play a key role to I suspect.