Real Madrid

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Marcosdeto, Apr 26, 2012.

  1. Apr 26, 2012
    #81

    Trionz Banned

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    Possibly the likes of Valencia, Malaga, Bilbao, Athletico are better than Schlake, M'Gladbacks, Werder, Hoffenhium, Wolfsburg; but the latter teams have had taken more points off the title winning teams than the former.

    A league can only be harder for any team if others have been troubling them in their quest for title.
    It's not like i am basing this on just one season. The points that those 2 team accumulate is high for quite a few seasons.

    It can also prove that the teams have very low resistance for Real Madrid's second gear attacks, let alone facing them at full throttle.
  2. Apr 26, 2012
    #82

    Cina hell hath no fury like a Cina scorned

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    Again, not disputing that. I don't think it was a very difficult run in at all though, not when you compare it to other years. We played Bayern the year before and we lost too after all. Of course people will say we outplayed Bayern and Madrid didn't, but they're excuses too. We still lost overall.

    The amount of excuses I've seen from people about why we went out of Europe this year is unreal, at the end of the day, with the way people go on about the strength and depth of our squad, we never should've gone out. As soon as Madrid lose to a really good Bayern side, people are running around saying they're overrated and that nobody should be making excuses for why they lost the game. If that's the case, why should we make excuses for us losing our games against Basel and co. ?

    My original response was to Pogue asking if people still think after last night that Real have a stronger squad than us, the answer, yes. It's like asking if Chelsea have a better squad than us because they're in the final and we didn't even make the knockouts, but anyone with half a brain will come to the conclusion that our squad is still better than theirs.
  3. Apr 26, 2012
    #83

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Surely you can see the difference between dropping points with weakened teams in the group stages of the CL and how a team performs with it's strongest possible team in the knock-out stages?

    I mean, we've dropped points to the likes of Rangers in seasons where we made the final. Fergie's always rotated like crazy in the group stages. This season his youngsters let him down (epsecially at the back) but our CL performances were in no way a true reflection of how good a team we are in Europe.
  4. Apr 26, 2012
    #84

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    I've been wondering for a while now just how good Real Madrid actually are, I mean we know how good Barca are not just because of the way they've dominated domestically, but also the way they've beaten us, Arsenal and many other of Europe's best in the UCL in convincing fashion, Madrid though more often than not fail in their biggest test(s) in a season.

    Just comparing Real Madrid to us for a moment

    Casillas > De Gea (going on experience more than anything when I say this)
    Arbeloa > Rafael (although that's not to say Arbeloa is anywhere close to being considered one of the best RB's in the world)
    Ferdinand > Pepe
    Vidic > Ramos
    Evra = Marcelo *???*
    Valencia/Nani > Di Maria
    Alonso > Carrick *just*
    Scholes > Khedira
    Rooney > Benzema

    That leaves then Ronaldo and Ozil for Real, Ronaldo we know is their star player and would have no problems getting back into our team, Ozil though? If you would compare him to say Nani I'd say there's very little in it albeit they're both very different players.

    Maybe Real have slightly better strength in depth with the likes of Diarra, Kaka & Coentrao (although none of which are particularly world class themselves) but I genuinely believe we're at worst Real Madrid's equal and maybe just one central midfielder away from being better than them as a whole.
  5. Apr 26, 2012
    #85

    Arruda Full Member

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    I think it's a tremendous exaggeration to say that Bayern are better than (current) Real. They were better in those two games, no doubt, as so often happens in football. But they can't even win their own league, which should be considerably easier than winning La Liga, for starters.
  6. Apr 26, 2012
    #86

    Treble Full Member

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    Didn't Scholes say some months ago that playing against the current team of Barcelona is the most difficult thing and you need a whole week to recover from the game?

    Those who say that the el classico didn't matter are wrong IMO. Playing 3 games within 8 days against one of the best teams in the world and the best side in the world is extremely difficult, especially if you take into account that 2 of those games were away fixtures.

    I don't like Real and Mourinho but some exuses about their failure vs Bayern are quite understandable.


    Imagine that Real had to play their second string of players vs Bremen on Saturday and Bayern had to play a very important game vs Barcelona at the same time. IMO, Real would have looked much better vs Bayern yesterday.
  7. Apr 26, 2012
    #87

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    That's all very well but has bugger all to do with Real Madrid getting out-played and eventually beaten in the first leg.
  8. Apr 26, 2012
    #88

    Treble Full Member

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    That comparision sucks. Rio will be 35 next year, Evra, Carrick and Vidic 32, Scholes 39 etc. We have to build a new defence over the next few years.
  9. Apr 26, 2012
    #89

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    I'd say Evans and Smalling are already bloody close to being better than Pepe and Ramos. They have to be one of the least assured defensive pairings in any of the top clubs in Europe.
  10. Apr 26, 2012
    #90

    Vato Watches other men wank.Supports Real.Coincidence?

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    Your squad or City aren't worse than Barca or Madrid at all to be fair, I could honestly see us struggling bigtime against United and it could go both ways. People tend to make assumptions based on one season or over a couple of cup games, which is kind of ridiculous. Any top 4 side in England or Italy could cause serious problems to the top teams in Spain on their day and vice versa.
  11. Apr 26, 2012
    #91

    Treble Full Member

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    I think you are wrong about that. We know that Real and Barcelona are pretty much obsessed with each other and regard el classico as the most important game in the world. Given the huge rivalry between them and the importance of the game, it's quite probable that both Real and Barcelona players had in mind that game when they were playing Chelsea and Bayern. You could imagine that Real were quite afraid that they might lose the title in La Liga. Real players are fantastic professionals but the thought of el classico reflected on their performance, IMO.

    Besides, it's no shame to be beaten by that Bayern side at their ground, nothing surprising really. Had they been fresh enough though, they would have given Bayern a different game yesterday.

    I think it's better for the game that Barcelona and Real failed even though I dislike Chelsea quite strongly. But they remain the best teams in the world and will be stronger next season, unless Mourinho and Guardiola leave them.
  12. Apr 26, 2012
    #92

    Treble Full Member

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    I hope you are right about that. I tend to agree that Evans and Smalling are very promising and could develop into world class CBs. Potential is dififcult to measure though.
  13. Apr 26, 2012
    #93

    Mockney Not the only poster to be named Poster of the Year

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    Real are definitely better than us atm. To claim anything close to otherwise is bonkers partisanship...not that you're ever known for that P.:smirk:
  14. Apr 26, 2012
    #94

    Cina hell hath no fury like a Cina scorned

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    I can't agree here. We got knocked out because we weren't good enough in Europe. Rotation has never been a problem for us in group stages in the past because we've had such good squads, it shouldn't have been a problem this year either if people still think our squad is really good. I think there are weaknesses there that were not addressed in the Summer and ultimately that's what cost us, along with Fergie employing even more mental tactics than normal. He has barely been able to put out 4-3-3 teams this year, something we could always do previously to get through groups. Our group was a piece of piss at the end of the day.

    Make excuses all you want, injuries, rotation etc, we've had all this and more in the past, in tougher groups, and qualified quite comfortably in general. Why didn't we do that this year?

    Your question about whether Real have a better squad was asked after they got knocked out in the semi final in Europe. I think that Bayern side would've dominated the shite out of us too. We don't have full backs capable of handling the likes of Ribery and Robben, and we don't have midfielders anywhere near the standards of Schweinstiger.
  15. Apr 26, 2012
    #95

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Really? What has happened to make Bayern so much stronger (or us weaker) since we last played them? What makes you think Carrick is "nowhere near" the standard of Schweinsteiger?
  16. Apr 26, 2012
    #96

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Hmmm... You probably should have read the whole page before posting.

    Vato's a Real Madrid fan. You going to accuse him of bonkers partisanship too?
  17. Apr 26, 2012
    #97

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    No it doesn't. Your argument is that Madrid are in better shape than us because lets say for example Khedira is 12 years younger than Scholes and thus they dont need to worry about replacing him in the near future unlike us with Scholes.... the problem with your argument is that Khedira (again for example) isn't a world beater by any means so it's quite possible that when we do replace Scholes it will still be with a player of a better quality than Khedira.

    The same applies to Pepe & Ramos they're not world beaters to begin with so even if our players do have a few years on them it still doesn't put Madrid into a better position.

    On the players you've questioned anyway

    Ferdinand 33 - Pepe 29
    Vidic 30 - Ramos 26
    Carrick 30 - Alonso 30
    Evra 31 - Marcelo 23
    Scholes 37 - Khedira 25

    So there's not even a chasm of difference (bar the last two) anyway
  18. Apr 26, 2012
    #98

    Cina hell hath no fury like a Cina scorned

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    Schweinsteiger is one of the best midfielders in the world, anyone can see that. I'm a big fan of Carrick but he is definitely not at that level. He completed 101 passes against that Madrid side last night, that's ridiculous really.

    Quite a few things happened, Alaba is amazing. Their defense is better, Neuer is much better than the keeper they had, Kroos is a great young player, Gomez for all his clumsiness is actually a very good lone striker, definitely better than Olic (who destroyed us back then). Mueller can't even get in their first team.

    I've gone on to death about how our squad is weaker in numerous threads, I don't see the point in doing it again in this thread.

    Actually, answer your own question, is our squad as good as Madrids?
  19. Apr 26, 2012
    #99

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Not really. As per my post in the Schweinsteiger thread.

    I'll accept that Bayern have probably improved since we played them. Mind you, I'd give us a much better chance if we played them again without having to cope with going a man down and having Rooney essentially crippled for the second leg.

    I also think Valencia's come on a lot as a player, Nani's still threatening to become unplayable, Carrick has got his mojo back and the likes of Welbeck, Hernandez, Young, Cleverley and Jones (for all his ups and downs this season) have given us options we didn't have then.
  20. Apr 26, 2012

    Arruda Full Member

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    People read too much into United's European campaign this season. Shit happens every once in a while. My own team got relegated to the Europa League in a group with Zenit, Shaktar and APOEL.

    Manchester United is still a top-4 European team, and I think they could perfectly do to Real what Bayern did.
  21. Apr 26, 2012

    padzilla Hipster

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    Our recent transfer policy would indicate that when we replace Scholes, something we didn't do when we had the chance last summer, will be with someone who isn't close to the stature of Khedira - it'll be an up and coming kid with sell on potential if it doesn't work out.
  22. Apr 26, 2012

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Careful. Mockney will accuse you of bonkers partisanship. Even though you don't support Manchester United.
  23. Apr 26, 2012

    Cina hell hath no fury like a Cina scorned

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    Phwoar, Everton and Blackburn. Amazing.

    You think Carrick is as good as him?

    I've also pointed out quite a few other reasons, not just him.
  24. Apr 26, 2012

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    I'd be extremely surprised if Fergie wasn't targetting players an awful lot better than Khedira.
  25. Apr 26, 2012

    Raoul Administrator

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    Physically, they could not have possibly been as fresh as Bayern given that they had to put their season on the line against Barca, while Bayern's players were rested. Psychologically, they were probably even less fresh given what happened on the weekend.
  26. Apr 26, 2012

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    On this season's form, yes. Absolutely.

    They were two of our most recent good performances. There's plenty more where that came from. 1900 passes in 23 matches started. That's an average of 82 passes per game over 90 minutes (109 per 120 minutes). With an average pass completion of 90%

    Feel free to swoon over Shweinsteiger and his "ridiculous" 101 passes in 120 minutes though. Whatever floats your boat.

    See my edit.
  27. Apr 26, 2012

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    The reason why no one has been signed to replace Scholes is because we've yet to find anyone even close to his ability or the ability we require, we could of easily signed someone like Defour but we wont because we wont sign players just for the sake of it
  28. Apr 26, 2012

    Brwned Have you ever been in love before?

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    If Pepe hadn't cost so much (€30m) I'm not sure he would've lasted as long as he has, because he's never broke into that top tier of defenders and he's not the man to help Ramos develop that composure and discipline that he's lacking. They're both capable of being really dominant at their best but they're too rash and indisciplined. Ramos is 26 now, he needs to move past that stage but without the right guidance it's unlikely he'll get there. He's certainly progressed under Mourinho though.

    Evans, Jones and Smalling are very lucky to have Rio and Vidic to learn from playing with, very few young defenders get the opportunity to play alongside two of the best centre backs of their generation and it's even better that they've got their own distinct qualities and styles to learn from.
  29. Apr 26, 2012

    Zen Full Member

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    Bayern haven't improved a bit since we played them....they've improved massively. Jose using very similar tactics with Inter beat them rather easily in 2010...Bayern just outplayed Madrid twice, with those similar tactics, and better players in the system.

    I don't think us, or City are close to them, but despite leaving the group stages, are still basically the top 5 teams in Europe all in all.
  30. Apr 26, 2012

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    You're repeatedly ignoring the fact they were beaten in the first leg, with no clasico beforehand.
  31. Apr 26, 2012

    kouroux Full Member

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    This current Bayern team is IMO undoubtedly better than United in the CL.There is no shame in admitting it
  32. Apr 26, 2012

    Raoul Administrator

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    I concede that Bayern were slightly better in the home leg. My point is that the 2nd deciding leg was influenced by Madrid having played a difficult match over the weekend while Bayern rested 8 players.
  33. Apr 26, 2012

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    I'm confused as to when you say they're better than us in the CL. Obviously them being in the final whereas we went out at the knockout stages shows that they have been better than us but are you saying they're a better team and would beat us should we play them say in a couple of weeks time?
  34. Apr 26, 2012

    africanspur Full Member

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    I'm not going to get into an argument over whether Schweinsteiger or Carrick is better but I'm not sure how you can compare a potential 109 passes against a top half team at OT or a bottom 3 team away to 101 passes at the Bernabau.
  35. Apr 26, 2012

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    The 109 passes is an average from the season as a whole, against every team we've played - home and away.

    To be honest, Carrick's 90% accuracy is the most impressive stat of all. Over the course of a whole season. From memory, I think Pigstabber was in the low 80s last night.
  36. Apr 26, 2012

    Mockney Not the only poster to be named Poster of the Year

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    Man U da best 4ever. Go red devils!!!!!!
  37. Apr 26, 2012

    africanspur Full Member

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    Fair enough. I still don't think any of the teams this league has to offer are as good as Real and league matches don't come with the pressure/occasion of a CL semi-final but I've always rated Carrick, think what he does can often be missed/under-rated by a lot of fans.
  38. Apr 26, 2012

    crappycraperson "Resident cricket authority"

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    Carrick no where near as a good as Schweinsteiger, I don't think any stats are needed to support that claim. The latter is legitimately at the same level as likes of Xavi, Scholes in terms of being best about. Carrick is in a tier below at best.
  39. Apr 26, 2012

    crappycraperson "Resident cricket authority"

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    Yeah Carrick is definitely under rated and made scapegoat by some United fans. But I also think he does not belong in the top most level of CMs about. That should not be blamed on him though.
  40. Apr 26, 2012

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Carrick's very much in the top tier of European central midfielders when his form is good. Which has been the case this season.

    I remember when we dominated Inter away a few years back, the Italian press went absolutely mental over his performance. Shame our own fans are so much harder to please.

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