Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by marcosdeto, Apr 26, 2012.
Yes I am.
Carrick in good form is as good as likes of Xavi? I don't think so. Even now it is easy to see the difference in quality between him and Scholes.
You wouldn't even need to because I think there's no debate to be made on that question.It still means Carrick has been a very good Man United player
I agree our wingers are better and probably our forwards. Our GK, full backs, central defense and midfield are all weaker. Mainly because some are still very young (and having to replace some exceptional players) and others are getting too old.
You say yourself Bayern are better now, and I feel we're weaker (though as I said, we can improve so much with the youth we have, and players coming towards their peak). So I do think they'd beat us most days, especially if they played like they did last night.
Look, I have always rated Carrick, through thick and thin I've defended him, and he's a really good, massively underrated midfielder. He's not one of the very best in Europe though, maybe one of the best in the PL. I really just wouldn't put him at the level of Schweinstiger, he's in the top 5 for me.
I mean Carrick isn't even as good as a 37 year old Scholes. THAT is what I'd call a top tier midfielder when he was in his prime.
If Rio,Vida, Scholes, Rooney and Nani are fit and in good form, I think we will beat either of Madrid or Bayern over two legs.
We're comfortably a better side than Chelsea and they have every chance of winning the thing. We were arrogant in our approach to Europe this season and had a few new players who didn't quite step up to the mark required. Next year will ber very different. It's just a shame we've missed out on the opportunity to play in a very winnable final this year.
A couple of posts from people who don't support the same club as me have just made your "bonkers partisanship" shtick look a bit silly.
This one from a Porto fan. And this one, from a Real Madrid fan, of all people.Feel free to ignore them.
It is not necessary we would have been able to beat Barca just because Chelsea did. Chelsea are just a bogey team for Barca given their record against them.
I actually think Chelsea still have one of the best starting eleven/squads in the league. They should still be in the title race imo. AVB just went about his time at the club in completely the wrong way.
Comparing us with Real and Barcelona is quite pointless right now for we aren't going to play them soon. They are going to sign new players in the summer and we are going to do the same. Only after the start of the next season would it make sense to argue whether they are far ahead of us or not. Right now, the discussion is incredibly hypothetical.
Carrick's been very close to a 37 year old Scholes this season. He was better than him at the weekend. Carrick's problem seems to be a mental fragility which turns temporary dips in form into months of below par displays. On his day, he's right up there with anyone (apart from once in a generation talents like Xavi or Scholes). Which has been the case this season.
At his prime, Scholes was streets ahead of Schweinsteiger.
I agree but Barca are more beatable now than they have been for a few years. Chelsea are more suited to playing against them than we are but it's very rare Fergie doesn't eventually figure out how to defeat an opponent.
On their day they are but players like Drogba, Cole etc have become quite inconsistent. Even since AVB left Chelsea haven't picked up a huge amount of points or even played that well in the league. They were poor against Benfica and lucky enough to scrape through against ten men and came up against a Spurs team in stinking form after beating Leicester in the quarter finals of the Cup. Their perfromance's against Barcelona were defensively excellent but they have experienced a lot of fortune of late.
Carrick is a high class water carrier.
Schweinsteiger is a star.
Probably, but there's no question that at the moment an in-form Schweinsteiger would walk straight into our midfield at the expense of any other option we've got.
The way he controlled the match yesterday was very, very impressive. He sprayed the ball around and got their front four started time and time again. He broke up play, and a good few times he just broke through Madrid's first line of defense on his own.
It was a very good performance, and it goes to show how important form and match fitness are, considering he was absolutely gash last week at the Allianz.
I'm a huge fan of Carrick, but I don't think his top level is quite as high as that of Schweinsteiger. That said, I think Carrick would probably excel in Schweinsteiger's place in the Bayern midfield three, with Gustavo next to him doing the nitty gritty and Kroos or Müller ahead of him.
How often have you watched the German for Bayern and Germany?
He is not the exact same type of player as Scholes or Savi. More of a hybrid of Scholes and Keane.
There's not much in it, imo. I'd even say that our squad is stronger than theirs.
They haven't changed too much since we played them in 2010, the only real difference is that they now have a prolific striker, who incidentally was by far the worst player on the pitch last night.
all i wanted to say is that real madrid did very well in qualifying over CSKA Mosca and Apoel, given the limited budget the spanish have
and yes, mourinho proved to be succesfull in the past
so did benitez
At his prime Scholes was streets ahead of just about everyone. It doesn't take away from how good Schweinsteiger is though.
How often have you actually seen him? He really is a much better player, he has so much more to his game than Carrick does.
'On his day' is bullshit. Everyone in our squad is exceptional on 'their day. What is important is how often they are on 'their day'.
Carrick has never been a first name on the teamsheet player for United and he has been overlooked by England manager after England manager. Whilst he is having the best season of his life lets not get giddy about how good he is. If we bring in Martinez for example I think that we would see a lot less of Carrick next season.
The whole CAF Carrick dynamic is very reminiscent of the Berbatov CAF dynamic of recent years.
Well that proves it then. Man U da best! Yay!...and lots of fans of your own team have said the opposite. We can all pick out selective agreements. I personally agree with earlier sentiments that you're more than willing to pick reasons for Real's failures and excuses for United's. Ive already agreed (in either this thread or another one) that Real's squad isnt that great, but they are a better side than us, as proved by virtually everything it could have been bar a straight match up this season. Whatever a Real fan may say. Scholsey's probably busy right now telling Liverpool fans they're quite good and that Welbeck's awful.
We can argue hypotheticals all day...and regularly do...on our day we can beat anyone, yippee ki yay, on everyone's day they can beat so and so. Fact remains that on our big days this season we've often been as or a few levels below what Real were yesterday.
There's really no need to ask how much anyone's seen of him, it's safe to assume that the majority on here watch the semi finals of the CL and most of the World Cup and that's enough over the last two years to be aware of his quality. In fact there's been a trend for those who've seen more of him to praise him less...
Granted many of those comments were said last summer off the back of an evidently unimpressive year.
Brwned you could find just as many posts, if not more of people saying he's great.
And actually, I recall saying before that he's the one player above all else I would've liked us to sign last Summer, and you full on agreed with me.
What's your point?
My point is our opinions (as well as the majority of the caf's) are heavily based on his performances in 2010, or roughly 12 games over the space of two years, while it was quite apparent that roughly 3/4 of the German newbies that signed up over that time thought it was quite strange that he's as highly rated as he is...and I think that on its own makes an interesting point. Those saying he's great are more likely the ones who've seen him in a collection of big games over 2 years rather than those who've seen him week in, week out and it's well known (and accepted by German fans) that the German players tend to raise their level on the international stage so that leaves us with about half a dozen club games over two years for most and that can be misleading. We've got a few German posters on here, a couple are Bayern fans too as far as I can see, so it'd be interesting to hear their take on the Schweinsteiger-love on here.
He'a been one of the first names on the team-sheet almost the whole of this season and he's been "on his day" more than almost any other United player in that period of time.
The Berbatov comparison is bullshit when you compare the team achievements before/after we signed him and how rarely he sat out any big games. A lot of people were urging patientce with Berbatov when he had a less than impressive debut season. The same doesn't apply to Carrick, who has nothing left to prove.
Thought this too. For most of his time here our Midfield has been Carrick plus 1
He's had his fair share of injuries since 2010 though. I watch Bayern in the Bundesliga quite a bit and I am more often than not very impressed with him. He's also a 'big game player', as you pointed out above, seeing as he's generally been excellent in those 12 games or whatever it is. I think he's a much better player than Carrick.
A thread criticizing Real Madrid for crashing out of the semi finals of the Champions League, against Bayern Munich, on a Manchester United forum.
Oh the irony.
Yeah, because everyone knows no football fan is ever allowed to discuss flaws in any other football team unless the team they support has done better than them in the season in question
What a stupid fecking post.
Of course not, feel free.
Just saying, I read through the thread and had a chuckle.
So we can't criticize Real Madrid then?
I imagine by that logic the forums of those teams who aren't in the Champions League aren't allowed to discuss the Champions League then?
We can, I've criticized both Spanish teams for various reasons in different threads
I think the margins here are very thin. Only penalty kicks seperated the two teams. Bayern are a top team in Europe.
He has never started over 29 league games for us in a season and he won't have done this year either. In the last three seasons he started an average of 23 games a season in the Premier League.
I am not 100% sure but I also think that he has had an excellent injury record in that time too. I can remember him being dropped for a run of games for poor form on a few occasions, in fact was he not dropped at the start of this season?
All this comes in an era of a less than stella midfield at United.
Most people happily jump on hyperbole without fully knowing themselves really though.....thus Bale being amazing then awful then amazing then awful. Football is all one big hyperbole bandwagon jumping craze for the most part, because like 98% of fans who think they know...don't watch much outside of their own club/league/real/barca/world cup/euros etc.
Even journos and players themselves fall it, players are actually the worse because you get the idea they watch the least of football that doesn't involve their own team. Which is why Giggs, Bale, Parker randomly win awards they clearly don't deserve.
Further proof of the hyperbole thing is that Scholes, who is one of the few players not to have agent, pr and marketing teams to build his profile only really got his first recognition this year(and some prior to retiring)....has never had a ballon d'Or or WPOTY vote. Yet every great centre mid he's played against vouches for him straight after the game.
He's had his share of injuries.
More to the point, bearing in mind Fergie's fondness of squad rotation, can you name any other outfield player who's started more games than him over the same period of time?
At a guess, Patrice Evra and that's it.
point me to this same post in the barcelona thread please
or barca is fair game and real not?
My point is, criticism for both Spanish teams should be minor at best. They've had excellent seasons, and are unfortunate to be in the same league, chasing each other.
I take it that you mean players that start over say 30 or more games a season in Carricks era
Van Der Sar
Tevez (one season only)
Curious how that reads like a conventional 'star' players list isn't it.
There are possibly more but those were off the top of my head and checked. Incidentally all those players made 30 or more Premier League starts in on season one more than one occasion.
Bale is an entirely different kettle of fish to Schweinstiger.
Separate names with a comma.