Redcafe Sheep Draft QF4 - antohan vs Gio

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Aldo, Mar 10, 2014.

?

Who will win based on all the players at their peak?

Poll closed Mar 11, 2014.
  1. antohan

    40.7%
  2. Gio

    59.3%
  1. Mar 10, 2014
    #1

    Aldo likes to have five in, not four

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    The aim of this poll is to decide the winner in this fantasy game contested between two sides assembled through the method of drafting. For the purpose of this game, all players would be considered as being at their respective peaks. I invite all posters to go through the formations, tactics and arguments that will follow in the thread and kindly leave their vote. Thanks.


    TEAM ANTOHAN
    [​IMG]

    TEAM GIO
    [​IMG]

    Starting Formation

    [​IMG]


    Last edited: Mar 11, 2014
  2. Mar 10, 2014
    #2

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    ...
  3. Mar 10, 2014
    #3

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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  4. Mar 10, 2014
    #4

    Aldo likes to have five in, not four

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    :lol:
  5. Mar 10, 2014
    #5

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    Ah, fair enough, I imagined Panucci would give way to Bergomi. Better defender, nothing going forward, I think Brehme still owns that flank.
  6. Mar 10, 2014
    #6

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    I spent days arguing with myself whether to play Müller right and Robben left or the other way around.

    Müller right looked more natural but didn’t work as well tactically. The crux of it all was Brehme could run his flank and there was no real need for a winger there, which would give Müller the freedom to roam. On the other flank, Sagnol is perfect when paired with a winger as he mastered the overlapping run. Still, it continued to look a bit odd.

    Eventually I got to the point where I had to ask myself: "if I don't really need a dedicated winger on the left, why the feck am I playing one?" and it all fell nicely into place thereafter.

    I still wish I had played Müller, I rate him higher than Robben and think he would be awesome in that frontline, but you can't argue with the simplicity and direct threat from Robben's pace and dribbling. Early in the game that will be far more useful to me, Müller can watch on and start working out how he is going to break them down from the bench.
  7. Mar 10, 2014
    #7

    VivaJanuzaj Full Member

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    Wait a minute, anto did you pick a player in reinforcements and not playing him?
    That's a first for me.
  8. Mar 10, 2014
    #8

    Thisistheone Full Member

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    Gio did the same with Hagi I think?
  9. Mar 10, 2014
    #9

    Gio Full Member

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    Player Profiles:

    Andy Goram
    Widely regarded as Rangers and Scotland's greatest ever goalkeeper. Exceptional shot-stopper whose big-match temperament won countless points for his club. The late Celtic manager Tommy Burns eulogised that when he died they could put "Andy Goram broke my heart" on his tombstone. Birds and booze curtailed his time at the top and he was a fat mess by the time he waddled into Old Trafford, but between 1992 and 1995 Goram had few if any peers.

    [​IMG]

    Amedeo Carboni
    Only Paulo Maldini prevented Carboni from racking up close to a century of caps. Solid and reliable: a proper left-back whose pace and positioning was an important part of Valencia's great defence under Ranieri, Cuper and Benitez. Despite frequently coming up against a stable of brilliant right-wingers in La Liga - Luis Figo, Joaquin, Victor, Overmars - Carboni was reliable and rarely exposed. In a position where pace is everything, the fact he was still playing first-team football for Valencia at 41 (and winning European trophies) is testament to Carboni's longevity and the calibre of his under-rated defensive nous.

    [​IMG]

    Jurgen Kohler
    One of the greatest defenders of all time and easily the greatest man-marker of the modern era. He further strengthens an already bulletproof defence.

    [​IMG]
    Sol Campbell
    Imperious one-on-one, he was dominant in both the Premiership (3 times PFA Team of the Year) and on the international stage, making the Team of the Tournament at World Cup 2002 and Euro 2004. Pivotal to the Invincibles' success as their defensive struggles post-Campbell demonstrate. The first £100,000-a-week Premiership player showed the regard in which he was held. Gave England a fighting chance with his performances in major tournaments, twice heading in late winners disallowed only for the wankerish behaviour of others (Shearer and Terry).

    [​IMG]

    Guiseppe Bergomi
    One of the greatest defenders of all time at home right across the back-line. Perhaps only Pele made such a defining impact so young on the World Cup stage as the precocious 18-year-old Bergomi did in 1982. That was one of four World Cups Bergomi appeared in and it was Italia '90 when he was at the peak of his powers, alongside Baresi as the defensive star of the tournament. A whopping 758 appearances for Inter.

    [​IMG]

    Christian Panucci
    A solid right-back whose CV included the likes of Milan, Real Madrid, Inter and Roma. Typically defensively sound Italian who slotted in seamlessly at centre-half but was tidy, productive and classy when advancing down the flank. Another who excelled in the air (fellow Scots will recall his cruel last-minute headed winner at the climax of the Euro 2008 qualifying campaign).

    [​IMG]

    Edgar Davids
    Tenacious central midfielder whose dominance of the centre of the park was the platform for the great Juventus and Holland sides of the late 1990s. In the Team of the Tournament for both World Cup 1998 and Euro 2000. At the 1998 World Cup, he ran the midfield in the second round against Yugoslavia (scoring an injury time winner), against Argentina in a superb quarter final, and again against Brazil in a semi-final the Dutch lost because of profligacy in front of goal (and the creative brilliance of Rivaldo). At Euro 2000, more of the same at the business end of the tournament. A pure box-to-box midfielder (see this outrageous recovery to tackle a peak Ronaldo in the 1998 semi)

    [​IMG]

    Diego Simeone
    Top-level midfield enforcer who amassed 106 caps for Argentina. A born leader who was willing to do what it takes to win the midfield battle. Voted by Atletico fans last year into their all-time XI for his impact in their La Liga success in 1996. Hungry in the air and the one-man engine room behind the Inter and great Lazio team of the late 1990s/early 2000s.

    [​IMG]

    Rivaldo
    Between Maradona and Messi, nobody bettered the peak that Rivaldo achieved with Barcelona and Brazil. Possessor of one of the greatest and most multi-faceted left-feet the game has ever seen, he was a scintillating, talismanic, match-winner between 1998 and 2002. Blessed with eyes in the back of his head, a gorgeous touch, his hat-trick against Valencia on the last day of the 2000/01 season remains one of - if not the - greatest performances in the history of the game.

    [​IMG]

    Michel
    The foremost right-winger during the late-1980s and early-1990s as his Ballon D'Or nominations (4th in 1987, 13th in 1988 and 1989) testify. His fantastic crossing ability (Vieri's going to have a field day), eye for goal (good for 15-20 a season, 3rd top scorer at Italia '90 and European Cup top scorer in 1988) and creative interplay will be invaluable. Collected 16 titles at a Real Madrid team that was second only to the great Milan in the late 1980s.

    [​IMG]

    Claudio Lopez
    Electric forward who spent a number of excellent seasons at Valencia. Equally at home on the left wing or in attack, his 30 goals in 1998/99 were perhaps the statistical highlight but it was his leading role in the regular demolitions of reigning European champions Real Madrid (see the 6-0 hammering) and Barcelona which really caught the imagination.

    [​IMG]

    Gheorge Hagi
    Irrepressible genius who combined playmaking and goalscoring panache like few others. His portfolio of long-range goals of that wondrous left peg is worth a watch for even the most jaded Caftard. While he regularly rattled in over 30 strikes a season in Romania, it was his prompting, probing and passing that captured the imagination. Talisman of the most entertaining team of the 1994 World Cup, had spells with both Real Madrid and Barcelona, and brought UEFA and Supercup glory to Galatasaray in his mid-30s.
    • Craig Brown: "At his hypnotic best he was unstoppable."
    [​IMG]
    Christian Vieri
    Hulking line-leader who was as good as it got around the turn of the century. A fearsome physical presence who remains the all-time top scorer of headed goals in Serie A. A ruthless finisher however the chances came to him, grabbing the Pichichi with 24 in 24 for Atletico, banging in 103 in 143 for Inter and rattling in 8 World Cup goals for Italy.

    [​IMG]

    Sub:
    Patrick Andersson

    Marshalled the Sweden defence to a highly impressive third-place finish at the 1994 World Cup. Was the same commanding presence in Bayern's Champions League win in 2001, having drilled in the crucial 'last-kick-of-the-season' winner in that season's Bundesliga race (poor Schalke). Injury-prone in his latter years, yet that Barcelona signed him at the age of 31 shows the high standing he had within the game. A long and distinguished career, collecting 96 caps for Sweden (when they were a force) and considered their greatest defender of the modern era.

    [​IMG]
  10. Mar 10, 2014
    #10

    Aldo likes to have five in, not four

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    Hang on, Hagi is on the bench? :eek:
  11. Mar 10, 2014
    #11

    Gio Full Member

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    I think what it comes down to is:
    • Does Anto have the tools to break down my pretty shit-hot defence? No, it doesn't look like it
    • Is Popescu good enough to deal with Rivaldo? No, I can't see it.
  12. Mar 10, 2014
    #12

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    You may remember I spent ages making up my mind. There weren't really any upgrades for me out there, honest. I had two options really: Ruud as a striker upgrade, or Müller as an AM/FW who brought something different to the table (I had Robben and Ginola).

    I was already looking at evolving towards this formation so Ruud also looked like a striker who may not get to play :lol: It all really depended on who I faced ultimately and Müller was more consistent with where I wanted the team to go AND was a more important squad addition than Ruud in terms of the options afforded.

    Whether he or Robben starts here is really a toss up. Two very different propositions, I've just chosen to go with the more direct one early on and Müller later as someone who can help me better control and close down the game. You could argue Robben may be better against tired legs, but I prefer Müller against tired minds.
  13. Mar 10, 2014
    #13

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    PLAYER PROFILES

    GOALKEEPER

    Bernard Lama

    A cracking keeper in that excellent mid-90s PSG side. His agility and reflexes made him look like a panther in goal and formidable aerially. A bit of a nutter like the man who would take his place in nets for France after testing positive for cannabis, which effectively marked the end of his career at the top. He was similar in style as well except that he didn’t lack in height and didn’t have those occasional lapses in concentration while mulling over where to go for dinner that night.



    DEFENDERS

    Ronald Koeman

    The best goalscoring defender in history, with a career record a striker would be proud of (1 in 3) and twice as many as second placed Daniel Passarella. Koeman was devastating from free kicks and penalties, also holding the record for most top league consecutive converted penalties. That’s no minor point considering how my attack is bound to be stopped that way quite regularly!

    Of course, it isn’t just the goals I was looking for here, but the technique and power associated with those shots, which translate to his passing. We talk a lot about ball-playing defenders and if they can put a pass here or there every now and then they suddenly become different from a stopper. Koeman was miles ahead though, his passing was just from a different planet as far as defenders are concerned, and I mean ball-playing ones. It wasn't just the ease with which he could spray pinpoint passes all over the pitch but his football brain overall, which made them sublime, incisive and devastating.

    These qualities forced opponents to leave space between the lines or be punished by a ball over the top (which still invariably happened once they fell behind and had to push up!). This space can then be exploited by the likes of Bergkamp, Robben and Ginola to free themselves up, receive and run at the deep defensive line.

    [​IMG]

    Lilian Thuram

    Koeman's playmaking attributes come at a cost: he wasn't the best when faced with explosive strikers. When faced with these, he absolutely needs a partner that complements him well, and who better than Le Tronc?

    Thuram was the perfect modern defender; fast, athletic, strong. A tireless worker, strong in the tackle and equally adept at centre-back or right-back. A key component in the miserly Juventus defence of the early 2000s, and Team of the Tournament performances in two separate World Cups as both a RB and CB.

    He wouldn't just be the ideal partner for Koeman, but also happens to have an excellent proven record alongside Sagnol for France. Splendid.

    [​IMG]

    Andreas Brehme

    One of the best fullbacks of all time and the best ambidextrous player of all time, Brehme was one of those who, like Zanetti, made the flank his exclusive territory in all phases of the game. Koeman is delighted to have such a dependable presence on the left, no worries there.

    As usual, youtube clips are shite for showing overall play/crossing/assists, but if in any doubt over his contribution upfront, these classic Brehme rockets will do:



    Willy Sagnol

    An underrated talent. Sagnol was a top quality rightback equally strong in offensive and defensive phases. He won everything there was to be won with Bayern, but was unlucky to spend many of his best years playing second fiddle to Thuram as an international.

    Once Desailly retired and Thuram moved to CB France caught a glimpse of what they had been missing, with outstanding displays in the knockout stages of WC’06 against Brazil, Portugal and Italy. He proved he wasn’t just a solid defender against the very best widemen around but also added a different dimension to Thuram in attack.

    He is as good as it gets for what his role here requires, keeping the defence robust and being the ideal overlap for Robben to link with further up the pitch.

    [​IMG]

    Gica Popescu

    Also referred to as “Baciul” (Leader) in his native Romania, Gica’s ability to bring the ball out of defence and turning defence into attack was what made him the natural successor to Ronald Koeman at Barca.

    Immense as a defensive organiser and leader, he was to Romania’s defence what Hagi was to their attack, something they would later successfully replicate for Galatasaray in arguably their most successful spell to date. His reading of the game and anticipation of danger resulted in him breaking up attacks before they had even started.

    Here he will either be playing further forward protecting the defence and supporting the midfield or partnering Koeman, subject to the game at hand. Sometimes the switch will likely happen over the course of the game as and when the circumstances require it, which is a huge bonus.

    [​IMG]

    CENTRAL MIDFIELDERS

    Bastian Schweinsteiger


    A beast, we’ve all seen it over the last few years, the most complete all-round midfield package out there. The best midfield all-rounder since Matthaus IMO, capable of turning in World Class performances in a defensive, box-to-box or playmaking role.

    [​IMG]

    Phillip Cocu

    Another one who may get underrated here due to no fault of his own. Cocu was far and away the best performer out of that Dutch lot that joined Barca under van Gaal. Only Kluivert came close to contributing as much, but not as consistently. The rest were absolutely terrible and, as that translated to results, it somewhat tarnishes his record.

    It shouldn’t, he was at times the only saving grace they had defensively given van Gaal’s preferred midfield trio of Pep, Cocu and Figo, with the likes of Reiziger, Bogarde and de Boer doing the Koeman solo defensive role. With constant changes in management and internal strife, the only constant was whichever manager came trusting Cocu to turn in good performances.

    You could argue the best Cocu only came out later when he returned to PSV and had the sort of starring role he deserved, being able to contribute further up the pitch unshackled by pressing defensive duties. But then, the fact is I want him doing the former here, sitting, shielding, pinging balls all over the pitch and only really getting into the box to use his height and heading ability at set pieces.

    [​IMG]

    Eric Djemba-Djemba

    A guaranteed numerical advantage the moment he walks onto the pitch.

    [​IMG]

    ATTACKING MIDFIELDERS/WINGERS

    Dennis Bergkamp

    The non-flying Dutchman, even in that way he was special. The more time goes by, the less the red mist of rivalry clouds my judgment and I begin to accept he was one of the best ever and certainly the best advanced orchestrator the Premier League has seen.

    If there ever was someone who could replicate Laudrup’s role at Barca, being the glue that makes it all gel together and work like a symphony, he would be one of the top candidates. Words fail me really, do yourself a favour and watch this. For once a proper football clip.



    Arjen Robben

    This Dutchman does fly, down the wing, cutting in, and piling up all those who dare get close. He always looked special, but at Bayern he has gone up another gear, particularly once he was force-fed humble pie after that final against Chelsea.

    He will be tearing up fullbacks for fun.



    David Ginola

    Another wing wizard with less direct dribbling but more elegance and guile. The Geordies loved him and called him David Copperfield, so did Spurs fans, so keen on the sort of open sexy wing play us United fans also love.

    It is often cited as a travesty that none of the United 99 side got PFA or FW Player of the Year, “they took votes off each other”. Quite true, but was he not deserving though? It’s not late in the game against Arsenal, sure, but isn’t this almost as beautiful?



    Thomas Müller

    Nothing like the others. Müller isn’t the type of traditional winger we’ve come to know in football, no typical trademark — no blistering pace, no immense dribbling skills to turn defenders dizzy… No emphasis on a typical winger attribute. No, Müller is different to the traditional. He’s the type to drift out of the game, unnoticed, until the right moment, where he makes the diverting run into space to be through on goal and before you know it, he’s in to score or assist.

    This is a good article explaining his style and its effectiveness far better than I possibly could. Raumdeuter



    STRIKER

    Edinson Cavani

    Pace, power, dribbling, aerial prowess, great finishing from close or long range. The boy is the complete package to have upfront, particularly with that service and supporting cast.

    Consistenly a 30+ goals a season striker since 2010, despite regularly and selflessly putting his incredible stamina and workrate at the service of his teammates, supporting them wherever he may be needed. Outstanding really.

    [​IMG]
  14. Mar 10, 2014
    #14

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    :lol:

    Brehme and Sagnol out wide, Robben between Carboni and Kohler, Cavani attacking Sol... Who the feck is onto Dennis?

    [​IMG]

    See more in here:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Popescu isn't man-marking Rivaldo. Not that he couldn't beast him if needs be.

    I have three excellent midfielders in Popescu, Cocu and Schweinsteiger who only really have Rivaldo as a significant central threat. Simeone will make a run here or there, so will Davids, but they aren't really going to hurt much are they?

    Rivaldo, López, Vieri and Davids are all lefties. I can see you overcongesting that side of the pitch and leaving the entirety of the right side to Michel. Doesn't sound great to me.
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  15. Mar 10, 2014
    #15

    Gio Full Member

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    I think it's suicidal to push Sagnol and Brehme on that far given the wide threat posed by Claudio Lopez and Michel. They are both instructed to stay wide and stretch the play and will be given a hell of a lot of freedom to do that and feed Vieri with crosses and Rivaldo with cut-backs. Plenty of goals in that IMO.
  16. Mar 10, 2014
    #16

    Gio Full Member

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    They will hurt by controlling the midfield. Davids is the best out-and-out midfielder on the park. Simeone is as good as anything you've got. And Rivaldo's the best player on the park. It's an easy win for me in there.
  17. Mar 10, 2014
    #17

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    What is suicidal is having four players who do the square root of feck all when you don't have the ball.

    If/when you get the ball back... who is executing those quick transition balls? Sol Campbell? You have two stoppers in the heart of your defence.

    I have Lilian Thuram at the back covering Sagnol, not sure how exactly López becomes a problem there. I have Cocu being more conservative than Schweinsteiger and minding the other flank. Both fullbacks are free to do what they did successfully throughout their careers: provide width, stretch defences, overlap and cross, or shoot every now and then (:drool:)



    Davids is not as good an all-round midfielder as Schweinsteiger, but I know we'll disagree there.

    As I said from the outset, you have a good spine. I won't argue with Rivaldo, Davids and Simeone being a good midfield, which is why I strengthened mine and have focused on exploiting my strengths and your weaknesses:
    • two fullbacks who can boss their flanks in the different phases (Sagnol with the support of the most dangerous winger on the pitch and a perfect fit for him),
    • as much goal threat as your frontmen provide
    • a magician in the middle who has it in him to eclipse Rivaldo in this game
    • much better distribution from the back, while yours is compromised.
    It's a more fluid and coherent team, and you know it.
  18. Mar 10, 2014
    #18

    Annahnomoss Full Member

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    Great discussions guys. I am not very sure here, Anto states this which confuses me as I don't agree with it. Can you expand on this quote "both my midfielders are also given more freedom in possession, fully aware that the dangerman (Rivaldo) is well taken care of by Popescu staying behind".

    Will they leave Rivaldo to be taken care of by Popescu, or will they also help out massively with that effort?

    For Gio, what is your playing style? Are you going for possession here? Do you want to play direct? I don't quite understand it yet, what do you mean with "..The midfield will exert control of the match.".
  19. Mar 10, 2014
    #19

    Gio Full Member

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    I can see Vieri getting a couple here. He has Koeman beat on the deck and in the air. Michel's crossing and invention from the right side of midfield took him to 4th place in the Ballon D'Or. Lama isn't an auxillary centre-half, there's little to bugger all he'll be able to do about it. On the deck Rivaldo has mastered the through ball craft like few others. Look at this one to Serginho (for Serginho sub Claudio Lopez). Fast forward to 1.14 and consider how this situation will be replayed with a stranded, charging-up-the-park Sagnol failing to recover against Piojo Lopez's sheer pace:

  20. Mar 10, 2014
    #20

    Gio Full Member

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    I recognise Anto has some handy ball-players in deeper areas. I'm happy to leave him to get on with it in his own half. Our focus is on recovery and Davids and Simeone are as good as you can possibly get in that aspect. We also have the calibre of back four that will win back possession time and time again. Win back possession with opposition full-backs high up the park and punish the opposition through the space afforded to Lopez, Rivaldo, Vieri and Michel.
  21. Mar 10, 2014
    #21

    Annahnomoss Full Member

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    Good answers, then I know.
  22. Mar 10, 2014
    #22

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    When I don't have the ball they obviously will help with that effort. What I was getting at was that when I DO have the ball they (actually, Schweini in particular) can venture forward with more freedom knowing their backs are covered. It's not Popescu doing a man-marking role but by doing that DM role he gives greater freedom both to the fullbacks and the CMs. Of course, at the cost of losing a man upfront, but it's a cost I'm willing to bear, particularly when it is also helping me keep a firmer grip on Rivaldo in the process.
  23. Mar 10, 2014
    #23

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    I love how Gio keeps banging on about Piojo López exploiting the space behind Sagnol (who had a terrific engine but, of course, ignorance is easier to target than Brehme).

    Thuram is the one providing cover, the best RCB ever and the best defensive RB in this draft. Yeah, he would be as shit as Nelson Vivas, and I would be playing so high up...

    Right.
  24. Mar 10, 2014
    #24

    Annahnomoss Full Member

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    Good answer from you two Anto, both things are clarified then which I hope helps this game. So we don't get people voting one way or the other based on not knowing enough about those topics.

    Very even game guys.
  25. Mar 10, 2014
    #25

    Gio Full Member

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    Right, as long as Sagnol has an arrow taking him right up to the other end of the park, he'll get targeted. My full-backs aren't being gung-ho idiots.
  26. Mar 10, 2014
    #26

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    Well, that's a backhanded compliment if I ever saw one.

    Tell me how exactly your two CMs get the ball back with no support and everyone else fully capable of passing it around all day long? Sure, I can pass it at the back, to the flanks, keep probing, and eventually work a breakthrough.

    Brehme and Sagnol won't be all the way upfront all game, clearly, no. When I'm "passing it around" I actually have them as LM/RM, with two CMs, a pivot and Bergkamp in the hole. Cavani and Robben are keeping your entire backline guessing and desperately trying to keep a shape while your two workhorses run themselves into the ground running around the pitch like headless chicken.

    Or, if I've just recovered and there's room for a quick counter, I can execute it instantly.

    You can't really do either. Your fullbacks offer little support going forward, your distribution from deep is very limited, and the men upfront who end up doing all the attacking work then go on to do no defending work.

    You have two teams: four defenders who don't attack, four attackers who don't defend, and two chaps in the middle trying to make both phases work.
  27. Mar 10, 2014
    #27

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    That's what an overlapping fullback does. Gary Neville did it for ages for us. Yes, even when facing someone like López. Occasionally we paid for it, but rarely did, and never ever had Lilian Thuram as his covering defender.
  28. Mar 10, 2014
    #28

    Gio Full Member

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    It's the old "lots-of-arrows-to-pretend-the-whole-park-is-covered" tactic from Anto. He'd have been better off without them because it makes him incredibly vulnerable to the counter - a tactic my team is perfectly set to pull off.
  29. Mar 10, 2014
    #29

    Gio Full Member

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    It's a 4-2-3-1, not a 4-2-4. It's all about shape, recovery and counter. That how you win games, not dicking about with possession in your own half. As you said yourself only a couple of days ago:

    Obviously different examples there, but the point stands true. Control of the match is usually based on a solid shape, winning 1:1 battles to recover possession, and making it count when you do have the ball.
  30. Mar 10, 2014
    #30

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    Nonsense, the arrows explain movement of certain players. They aren't even necessary with Sagnol and Brehme because they are plain bleeding obvious to anyone who knows them as players, or anyone seeing a side lining up with a DM who can drop into a three at the back.

    The main reason I included them was clarifying while Brehme would be the sole provider of width on the left, Sagnol and Robben had a one-two tandem going on there. If anything that's honest, not the sort of smoke and mirrors you are talking about.

    Smoke and mirrors is parachuting 11 players into a 4-2-3-1 and saying ti works because they could all play the position they have been given. Your distribution from the back is extremely limited, can't believe you keep banging on about them quick counters.

    This is brilliant, what's the point of getting a player like Koeman if all you will hear is about Vieri bullying him (complete and utter nonsense) and Sol Campbell and Jurgen Kohler can play Hollywood balls at the other end.
  31. Mar 10, 2014
    #31

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    It's effectively 4-2-0 without possession from the moment none of your four do bugger all without the ball.

    I didn't at any point say I will control the game, possession, etc. I was replying to your nonsense about me dicking with possession in my own half. I can dick you around all over the pitch, not just in my own half.

    I have more players who fully engage in defensive and attacking phases and man for man I struggle to find who on your side is a better passer than my counterpart. Rivaldo v. Bergkamp? Mmmm, maybe, I'd argue Bergkamp is better at bringing others into play, which is what I require.

    I could play a possession game and I would shit on you at that, but that's not what I'm arguing. That's precisely the thing with picking Robben and not Müller, in the early stages of the games I'd rather remain a wee bit more direct and target that weak left flank of yours. Sure, Kohler can cover... That's the point, turning Kohler into a semi-permanent LB.

    You don't have many one on one battles to win though, you have two midfielders doing all the heavylifting against a diamond (Popescu-Cocu-Bastian-Dennis) and Brehme-Sagnol providing an option down the flank.
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  32. Mar 10, 2014
    #32

    VivaJanuzaj Full Member

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    I love how anto sells Bergkamp. He actually almost makes me regret not picking him before Laudrup. That's mental.
  33. Mar 10, 2014
    #33

    Balu Full Member

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    You haven't seen him selling Laudrup then :lol:
  34. Mar 10, 2014
    #34

    Gio Full Member

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    He's a master salesman, that's for sure. After all, who else would have the gall to claim that Schweiny is a better all-round midfielder than Davids, that Robben is a better passer than Michel, or that Popescu - not Rijkaard, Desailly or Davids himself - will 'beast' Rivaldo? :lol:
  35. Mar 10, 2014
    #35

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    How is it mental? Rivaldo by all means has a better record as a second striker than Bergkamp, but a better orchestrator? I would need a lot of convincing, and then some.
  36. Mar 10, 2014
    #36

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    I'm sure I'm not alone on Schweinsteiger, but will let others make up their own minds. I'd take Davids over Cocu, of course, but not Schweinsteiger.

    I'm glad you run through all your players and ended up finding the one who could be argued to be a better passer than mine: Michel vs. Robben (not once Müller comes on). Which brings me back to not picking Robben for his passing but his dribbling and direct threat at that tortoise of a left back.

    Incidentally, this Michel guy of yours in his pomp, alongside Hugo Sánchez and Butragueño also in their pomp, arguably the best side in Europe then and unstoppable aerially... They spent an entire 180 minutes unable to score from open play against a Ronald Koeman marshalled PSV defence. Benfica couldn't score against them in the final either and he had Ivan Nielsen next to him, not Lilian Thuram. Nor Brehme at leftback.

    You clearly never watched much Popescu then. Maybe you should have a word with your man Hagi on the bench.
  37. Mar 10, 2014
    #37

    Gio Full Member

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    I like Popescu on the ball and that Romania team him and Hagi led in 1994 was brilliant, but let's not paint him as some sort of defensive collosus who's going to nullify Rivaldo. As far as I can remember Popescu was never part or contributed to any form of robust or defensively robust set-up. In fact his Romania side in 1994, for all their attacking verve, let in 9 goals in 5 games. At Spurs he was part of an embarrassingly poor defensive set-up that conceded 58 league goals. At Barcelona he was good on the ball but weak off it - again as part of an average defensive effort that let in 39 and 48 league goals during his two seasons there. And he's the lynchpin to stop the best player on the park?!
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  38. Mar 10, 2014
    #38

    Gio Full Member

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    Michel has effectively got the same sort of legendary crossing reputation in Spain that Beckham does over here. But we've had first Robben and now Muller claimed to be better or even comparable passers. Good one.

    As you said there, that Real were a fantastic team in the air and so much of it owed to the unique quality of Michel's delivery. And here he is with Christian Vieri to aim for.
  39. Mar 10, 2014
    #39

    rpitroda Full Member

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    This is a real tight one. Can't make my mind up.
  40. Mar 10, 2014
    #40

    Pat_Mustard Full Member

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    A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
    From Wiki :lol:

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