Reminder: Jose managed to turn Chelsea fans against Hazard

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Santoryo, Dec 6, 2018 at 00:14.

  1. Dec 6, 2018 at 11:51

    mancan92 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    6,573
    Location:
    Loughborough university
    Who has been our best player?

    Every single one of our players has had more poor performances than pogba whilst also not hitting the heights that he has hit. On here he is the highest rated after Shaw. It's not a high bar but he has been our best player this season and by a decent margin aswell. Only martial and shaw has been close. Everyone else has been awful to ok every game.

    Even if you say he hasn't been our number 1 player at worse you can say he has been top 3

    Which is funny because it was actively pogba and martial keeping him in a job for that 7 or 8 game period
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018 at 11:59
  2. Dec 6, 2018 at 11:55

    abdo99 Full Member City Lover

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    6,865
    Yes he has. As much as it would pain you to admit that
  3. Dec 6, 2018 at 12:06

    Dec9003 Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    3,521
    He hasn't, martial has.
    Why would it pain me to praise Pogba? I don't dislike him as a man, I don't know him personally.
    I just don't think he's good enough, I'm sorry if you know him personally and me thinking that causes some kind of offence.
  4. Dec 6, 2018 at 12:16

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scout

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2004
    Messages:
    30,503
    Location:
    Chelsea fan.
    He didn't turn me against Hazard and I am the barometer for all Chelsea fans.
  5. Dec 6, 2018 at 12:18

    mancan92 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    6,573
    Location:
    Loughborough university
    Ok even if you want to say Martial Pogba has at worse been 2nd or 3rd best. So he has been consistently top 3 best players so really isn't a player for criticism
  6. Dec 6, 2018 at 12:24

    steffyr2 Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    887
    Watching the game yesterday, it didn't look like Pogba was missed. You'd think, if he was soooooo incredible for us, that his absence would be obvious. It wasn't.
    If Pogba is such an incredible player on a team with a bunch of average players, what does that say about him?
  7. Dec 6, 2018 at 12:27

    MrBest Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    820
    Totally agree with this. It is a 50 50 thing and both are absolutely horrendous.
  8. Dec 6, 2018 at 12:32

    Redlips Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2013
    Messages:
    157
    And sometimes I'd consider taking my ex back until I remember the deep, dark places she took me to! As humans, we often forget just how bad the past was.

    Hazard said it was best that they parted and he'd soon remember why if he is ever managed Jose again.
  9. Dec 6, 2018 at 12:35

    Dec9003 Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    3,521
    I'm sorry but I simply don't agree. I don't think Pogba has been a top player for us this season due to the countless problems we've had with him.
  10. Dec 6, 2018 at 12:43

    Judas Open to offers

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    7,764
    Location:
    Where the grass is greener.
    Might get stick for this, but the subs were made in a way that almost sabotaged Pogba's ability to really change the game. I do think he was poor when he came on, but the whole team went limp with 15 minutes to go. Lukaku up front, Fellaini in the middle, we turned to mostly hoof ball, completely bypassing midfield.
  11. Dec 6, 2018 at 12:46

    mancan92 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    6,573
    Location:
    Loughborough university
    That we paid a ridiculous amount of money for him ?
  12. Dec 6, 2018 at 12:47

    mancan92 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    6,573
    Location:
    Loughborough university
    Who has ? As I said bring other people who have performed to a higher level. Also what countless problems have we had?
  13. Dec 6, 2018 at 12:48

    Murray3007 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    1,386
    fans have every right to boo if they want, do you want us to cheer someone who plays half arsed every week? if you think Pogba aint part of the problem then something is wrong with you he is a big player in that changing room and a big influence on people, I aint no Jose fan and would love to see him go today if I could but I would be quite happy if Pogba went as well.
  14. Dec 6, 2018 at 12:56

    RedStarUnited Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2008
    Messages:
    5,936
    You cant in the same sentence be happy to see the coach leave, assuming because you think he isn't getting the most out of the team. Then also be happy to see the back off a player who would probably cost us 100m plus to replace.

    Pogba has had great moments with us and bad ones, he is symbolic of the team. We have no direction or defined way of playing yet people expect Pogba or anyone in this team to be a consistent performer.
  15. Dec 6, 2018 at 12:56

    Jeppers7 Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2014
    Messages:
    608
    Guys a complete hypocrite
  16. Dec 6, 2018 at 13:12

    SteveTheRed Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    2,230
    Agreed. It's totally acceptable to criticise Pogba for his performance, yet some on here who have so much disdain for Mourinho want to believe that Pogba is a FIFA player and Jose has the remote. No one is forcing him to lose possession, kick the ball out of play etc.
  17. Dec 6, 2018 at 13:16

    Murray3007 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    1,386
    Yes I could, we are 8th in the table and his football tactics are so negative, so like I said I would be happy to see him go, and Pogba is a players who's attitude has to be questioned, I no players have bad games but when you seem them not arsed then its a big problem, so what if it costs us 100m ? we spent 90m on him and he's barely performed at all.
  18. Dec 6, 2018 at 13:17

    BalanceUnAutreJoint New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2017
    Messages:
    127
    And you're trying to turn Pogba into Hazard.
    Pogba doesn't have half of Hazard's talent or ablity.
    He is good once every 5 games or so.

    He deserves most of the criticism he's received.

    Also Jose isn't the one turning the fans against him. Former Man Utd players as well as others pundits have criticized Pogba for much longer than Jose.
  19. Dec 6, 2018 at 13:19

    SteveTheRed Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    2,230
    The difference was that no player was bigger than the club, or what Fergie really meant "No player was bigger than me" - He was the boss. Now we have multiple players bigger than Jose, half the fans are siding with Pogba. If De Gea turned round and said Mourinho has to leave or I leave 90% of fans would be screaming for Jose to go and it would happen.
  20. Dec 6, 2018 at 13:33

    RedStarUnited Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2008
    Messages:
    5,936
    If a player can play for Conte, Allegri and Deschamps, coaches who don't really negate hard work - then id say the problem here is the manager. None of his previous managers have had issues with his work ethic.
  21. Dec 6, 2018 at 13:35

    Godfather Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2007
    Messages:
    17,817
    Location:
    Austria
    When was the last time Mourinho got the best out of a player though? There's every reason to believe Pogba would do much better under another manager.
  22. Dec 6, 2018 at 13:35

    Buster15 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    359
    Location:
    Bristol
    Supports:
    Bristol Rovers
    Absolutely correct.
    I have a very good friend who is a Chelsea season ticket holder and he sees it the other way.

    He and his mates view was that it was Hazard who insighted other team members to down tools against Jose.

    Remember they were PL champions the previous season.
  23. Dec 6, 2018 at 13:36

    OL29 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,645
    Location:
    Manchester
    Yeah I'm still trying to work out how those that booed Fellaini were wankers but the posters who complained about Pogba getting booed are 'obnoxious prats' and have no right to criticise as match going fans do more to support the club than he does. Seems like he makes it up as he goes along.
  24. Dec 6, 2018 at 13:41

    abdo99 Full Member City Lover

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    6,865
    And Hazard in that season went 30 games or something before scoring. He wasn't even good once in every 5 games unlike Pogba who's already contributed a lot more in a worser team . no-one I repeat no-one has been involved in more goals since his arrival to the club .
  25. Dec 6, 2018 at 13:42

    Shane88 Actually Nostradamus

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    22,926
    Location:
    Master of Karate & Friendship.
    Why do we have to take sides? Lets be rid of the pair of toxic shitheads and be done with them.
  26. Dec 6, 2018 at 13:49

    BalanceUnAutreJoint New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2017
    Messages:
    127
    Hazard had just won Chelsea the league the year before and was forced to play injured by his manager.
    Pogba had less goal involvement than Zlatan in 16/17, less goal involvement than Lukaku in 17/18.
    He takes penalties nowadays and a lot of his "assists" last year were simple pass that ended in a long range screamer.

    The fact that he has been our best player just speaks of the poverty of the squad overall more than anything else.
  27. Dec 6, 2018 at 13:50

    Murray3007 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    1,386
    many of them were his manager in the premiership ? that's right none, quite simply Pogba cant cut it week in week out in the premiership, its the same as when Veron came here looks great in a less competitive league but asked to perform every week he couldn't do it
  28. Dec 6, 2018 at 13:57

    Fracture90 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2016
    Messages:
    6,828
    Location:
    Serbia
    I like everyone else expect more from Pogba but then again I do realize this turgid system of ours coupled with his usual MF partners isn't really helping to get the best out of him.

    He's tasked with being that creative spark and when he pulls it off, he's hailed as one of the very best in the world, when he fails in doing so, he gets the blame.

    Same thing was happening to Martial. 90% of our attacks is coming down to "chuck it to Martial" and then we wait to see if he'll dribble past couple of opponents and get a goal/assist, which when he's successful at, is amazing to watch, but when he fails he's wasteful, sulky, has poor attitude etc.
  29. Dec 6, 2018 at 14:00

    yfoFC Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2017
    Messages:
    534
    Location:
    Nigeria
    Just shows that we can never trust Jose's decision regarding our young and talented players, that's why I'm withholding my judgement on Pogba until after the man has gone even though he has been gash the past few games..
  30. Dec 6, 2018 at 14:02

    yfoFC Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2017
    Messages:
    534
    Location:
    Nigeria

    :lol:

    Wish he'd show such tactical acumen on the pitch though, where he is paid handsomely to do so... and failing quite miserably
  31. Dec 6, 2018 at 14:05

    Fracture90 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2016
    Messages:
    6,828
    Location:
    Serbia
    I'm curious how many times did Zlatan and Lukaku failed to convert Pogba's decisive pass into a goal? Pretty sure concensus is, if they were a tad more clinical Pogba would have had a few more assists.
  32. Dec 6, 2018 at 14:05

    tedketterman New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    429
    :lol:
  33. Dec 6, 2018 at 14:05

    yfoFC Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2017
    Messages:
    534
    Location:
    Nigeria
    Martial FC has been rightly vindicated, that's much more an honorary title that you are bestowing upon him.

    I'm jealous of you @Santoryo
  34. Dec 6, 2018 at 14:07

    tedketterman New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    429
    I think his first goal was the last game of the season.
  35. Dec 6, 2018 at 14:14

    Turkleton Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2016
    Messages:
    220
    Sad to see people haven't learned from the vilification of Martial. Pogba has been our best outfield player since he joined and people have turned on him because the manager has scapegoated him.
  36. Dec 6, 2018 at 14:45

    LoveFootball New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    597
    Been reading through this thread and I'm enjoying the arm wrestling between match going fans and the rest of the fans. But we should stop with this, we're all sons of one mother, Manchester United; everyone else will come and go but us fan will still here long after Mourinho or Pogba leave this club.

    Bravo Mourinho, you're really a master of manipulation, you've succeeded to turn fans fighting each others to deflect attention from the dross you're serving us. Today the talking point is not the fact Manchester United lost 2 points again yesterday, no one is talking about the fact you have us sitting 8th in the league, or the fact we've a GD of -1, nobody is talking about the shambolic defending of yesterday game, nobody is talking about the fact we went almost (I say almost because Arsenal were the better team) toe to toe with Arsenal without Pogba, Sanchez, Lukaku, Lindelof, Smalling, Shaw, Young, Valencia when our manager have convinced everyone that this team is not good enough for top 4;
    Bravo Jose. Take a bow, you're a fraud, you deserve a five years contract to stay in jail away from football.

    Match going fans are not superior to other fans, no no, it is stupid to think like this. Kudos for most of them from supporting the club and following them everywhere, kudos for singing, clapping and cheering the team every week at OT and away; but don't forget that other fans are vital for this club, Manchester United would be another mid table club if not for the international fans. I think the biggest revenue are from the fans around the world and that is vital for us to compete with the like of Madrid or PSG. Yes the match going fans spend their hard working money to pay for ticket, but we also do the same to watch the club on TV; do you know how much it cost me to come back every weekend to watch an United game with friends at pubs? do you know how much we pay for TV subscription? do you how much I have to spend to get a Manchester United jersey (most of us international fans pay almost double the price to get a genuine United jersey)? So we should stop about this nonsense that match going fans are special; the only thing that makes them special is the fact they can attend games and hence voice their opinion easily than us on an internet.

    We should stop fighting each other and concentrate our energy to kick the real enemy out. This enemy destroyed many club the same way he's doing here; this same enemy questioned Christiano Ronaldo's commitment, wanted to push Hazard out of Chelsea, wanted to sell Martial or swap him with Willian and Perisic, this same enemy disrespected this club for several times. Those backing Mourinho should ask themselves why SAF or SBC don't come out and publicly support him the way they did with LVG? Why no one is showing sympathy for this man? Why even opposition fans are now feeling sorry for us?
    Woodward has his flaws but the only one who turned us into a laughing stock is Mourinho. Don't be fooled by this man, he's and has always been a poison everywhere he goes; the man is hated at Chelsea when he's supposed to be their legend. Let's kick him out of this club before he starts to tell us that Old Trafford is not the Theatre of dreams.
  37. Dec 6, 2018 at 14:51

    Rolaholic New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    444
    It was disgusting seeing them acting like rabid attack dogs and trying to assassinate his character over the summer just because Jose was criticizing him over his decision to leave the meaningless preseason tour for the birth if his son. The vitriol was something else

    Now a few months later,we've got another situation where Jose is at odds with a star player and many are lapping it up and using the chance to once again spew more venom and assassinate another players character. Rinse and repeat

    We have many issues at the club at the moment but Paul fecking Pogba isn't near the top of list yet he's become the default scapegoat du jour so we now have to hear delusions about how we'd somehow be better off with less quality/talent in the squad :rolleyes:

    Managerchester United indeed,at no other elite club is the managers word and position treated as holy and sacred. The managers are just another employee with then,not bigger than the club as they seem to be with us
  38. Dec 6, 2018 at 14:54

    Janson Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2016
    Messages:
    5,138
    Location:
    Sweden
    It's not about that. He is accusing people of being fans of Mourinho before the club, when he's doing the same with Martial.
  39. Dec 6, 2018 at 14:57

    abdo99 Full Member City Lover

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    6,865
    Less goal involvement? yyou mean just goals? I'm talking about goals and assists. And he would've had a lot more assists if Zlatan and Lukaku were clinical strikers.

    Just because others have been bad doesn't make it any less of a achievement. Where were the Jose favorites Lukaku and Matic when the team was under the cosh aagainst Newcastle for example and the manager was on the verge of being sacked? Who turned up? Pogba and Martial the two man Jose has treated the worst and scapegoated along with Shaw
  40. Dec 6, 2018 at 15:02

    abdo99 Full Member City Lover

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    6,865
    Some of them were tearing into Bailly not so long ago when it appeared he was in Jose bad books. Now watch when he gets a run of games they'll claim it was part of Joses masterplan and someone else will be their scapegoat