Reminder: Jose managed to turn Chelsea fans against Hazard

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Santoryo, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. Dec 6, 2018

    Bilbo Full Member

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    None of us know what is going on behind the scenes - maybe Pogba is a bad influence in the dressing room. Who knows.....

    Going on what we get to see though, its very easy to conclude that he is being made a scapegoat. Has he been our best player? Arguable. Has he been our worst? Definitely not.
  2. Dec 6, 2018

    Ronaldo's ego New Member

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    Exactly, the match going fans don’t provide a true reflection of the general feeling amongst the majority of our fanbase
  3. Dec 6, 2018

    Janson Full Member

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    I've stayed of the caf for a while because of how crazy it has gotten. Now that I'm back, it's even worse.
  4. Dec 6, 2018

    Janson Full Member

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    You are going of caf rating for who's been our best player?
  5. Dec 6, 2018

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate

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    Don't kick yourself like that mate.;)
  6. Dec 6, 2018

    Kapardin Full Member

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    Watch out, Top Reds will say you have to watch a game live to grow a brain to say such things.

    Funnily enough, I don't get what Pogba has done? Inconsistent performances? Sure, like 90% of our squad...Why single him out when he's the best of a bad bunch? Or, did he disrespect the club? Nope, he said the tradition of the club is to attack and that the manager's tactics weren't aligned with that.

    If anything, that statement shows more respect to the club than Jose going about raising 3 fingers, blabbering about football heritage, how top 4 will be a miracle etc.

    Think this animosity towards Pogba was prompted by Jose's match day program where he appeared to hint that some players weren't giving their all for the club.

    They don't. They are free to do as they please, just as we are free to air our opinions. I'd wager a global poll on Jose would fare similar to the one on this website in the Mourinho sack watch thread.
  7. Dec 6, 2018

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    :lol:
  8. Dec 6, 2018

    SteveJ all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian Scout

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    :lol:
  9. Dec 6, 2018

    RedDevil@84 Full Member

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    Yes, but Pogba has been s**t talking to the media for months now and just like his game, he blows hot and cold in the media. Sometimes saying things as if there is a problem and sometimes acting as if the club is his favorite place to be. And he is not good as Hazard.

    Having said that, people booing Pogba should be ashamed. If they make Pogba the benchmark to boo, then they should probably boo almost the entire team. People like Matic and Lukaku should only be able to hear boos all the time.

    Anyways, I am not a fan of booing at our manager or player.
  10. Dec 6, 2018

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate

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    What has Pogba said exactly?
  11. Dec 6, 2018

    RedDevil@84 Full Member

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    Like the time when he told the media "We should be doing attack attack attack, but I am not the manager, so I cannot say that" and then in next week followed it by telling media that he has been told to not talk to the media. I am not saying he is insulting the club, but he tried to give tidbits to media, every now and then. Totally unnecessary when the team has issues.
  12. Dec 6, 2018

    Jeppers7 Full Member

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    He just dislikes Pogba, makes him irrational.....that's fine though as long as you're honest about it. There's things I'd accept Pogba doing, like if he tripped over the ball, that if Lukaku or Fellaini did them I'd probably go mad....but to me they are just very very average players so I'm less likely to accept mistakes because their highest level doesn't cover for it.

    What I dislike is people, who because they dislike someone, they try to play down good performances and come out of the woodwork after bad performances trying to distort the reality.

    I'm yet to have anyone answer the question of who has been consistently good for us this season ? This guy claims Smalling ffs ! Really...he's been better than Pogba ? Can't think of a good game he's had, so you know he's reaching there.
  13. Dec 6, 2018

    Fracture90 Full Member

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    In all honesty you should be proud that our Manager's star signing wants us to stay true to our tradition and attack more, right?
  14. Dec 6, 2018

    RedDevil@84 Full Member

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    I am more than happy that our star player wants to play attacking football, but at the same time I don't want him to follow it up with "But I am not the manager". Those words were clearly intended to call out the manager in front of media. That is naughty.
    I would rather have him call up Woodward and tell him Jose is a crap manager and he doesn't want to play his crap football and leave it at that.
  15. Dec 6, 2018

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate

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    Honestly I don't get it, the attack comments have been used several times in the last days and it makes little sense because people are at the same time asking players to show character, to push on the field and make the efforts that will make the match going fans rise, "playing it like United".
    Now, when Pogba is asked a question and answers that we should attack at home that it makes things easier for the team, that we should press with more intensity, people use it against him and call him toxic. You can't have it both ways, you either want players with character who shows it without disrespecting the club and their teammates. Or frankly we shut up and don't ever talk about character and ambition.
  16. Dec 6, 2018

    Fracture90 Full Member

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    I do agree that he shouldn't have said that "I'm not the manager part" but I understand his frustration. We're going batshiit crazy just by having to watch that utter dogshiit we've being served under Mourinho, now imagine how is it on Pogba who's having to play that kind of football day in day out. Not to mention the abuse he's getting on social media and pretty much everywhere just because was bought for 105 million.
  17. Dec 6, 2018

    mancan92 Full Member

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    I'm using it as a ligetimate sample size of data from a base who watch our team week in week out. What other barometer would I use?

    Ok instead let me use one of the defacto statistic websites for football

    https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/32/Show/England-Manchester-United

    Who sits at number 1 for the highest rates based on traceable data ?

    It's actually silly how knee-jerk you guys are. The guy has been our best player. Statistically and visually.
  18. Dec 6, 2018

    ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg Full Member

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    Why on earth would you think we have intelligent fans!? Most people are stupid, ergo most football fans are stupid - and given our fan base, we have more stupid fans than any other club in the world!
  19. Dec 6, 2018

    RedDevil@84 Full Member

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    As I mentioned in the next post, I don't mind him wanting to attack, but if he has a problem with the manager's tactics, I don't expect him (or any other player) to go out to media and give them things to write. Doesn't necessarily make him toxic, but it is unnecessary.
    Anyways, my miff with Pogba is more about his general play rather than his other stuff, and him blowing hot and cold in matches. You never know which Pogba will turn up. Maybe much of it is because of Jose's tactics, we will only know when we get another manager. I hope people are right about it.
  20. Dec 6, 2018

    Jeppers7 Full Member

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    With which of our players exactly do you know, which ..... will turn up ? Matic ? Pretty much guaranteed to get a shite performance there...Lukaku ? Yeah I get that. You know what you're getting with those two.

    Anyone else ?
  21. Dec 6, 2018

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate

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    I see where you are coming from but in that case you realize that you shouldn't use it in this argument because the way you wrote it and within the context of this thread it reads like a justification to turn against a player that is deemed toxic. When in reality you agree with his position but have reservations regarding the way he conveyed his thought. Also we all know that if it was leaked that he talked to Woodward about Mourinho's tactics the usual suspects would have lambasted him and went with the same conclusion. The players lose in every scenario, if they say nothing they are deemed lazy, if they say something publicly they are toxic and if they talk to the CEO they are toxic and rats.

    Pogba is frustrating on the pitch because he is inconsistant tactically and technically, now that inconsistency is similar to Di Maria's in the sense that they still regularly make the difference and they do it at a very high rate. We are all frustrated by that but Pogba has shown no sign of toxicity, he isn't noticeably lazy, he hasn't said or shown that he wanted to leave, he hasn't disrespected the fans or the club.
  22. Dec 6, 2018

    RedDevil@84 Full Member

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    Firstly, we are talking Pogba here and hence my comment.
    Secondly, my expectations from Pogba (who was supposed to be an elite midfielder when we got him) is way high than the likes of Matic, Lukaku or Fellaini. I expect Pogba to be a game changer and a huge influence whenever he plays.
  23. Dec 6, 2018

    Mainoldo Full Member

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    Unfortunately you’re right. :lol:
  24. Dec 6, 2018

    Mainoldo Full Member

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    Would Messi be a game changer in this team?
  25. Dec 6, 2018

    RedDevil@84 Full Member

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    We'll know when we buy him. A cheeky bid in January then?
  26. Dec 6, 2018

    Mainoldo Full Member

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    Possible, then we’ll be told we need to replace him in March after being deemed past it.
  27. Dec 6, 2018

    RedDevil@84 Full Member

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    Caf wouldn't approve buying a 30 year old for big money anyways. They are all close to retirement age.
  28. Dec 6, 2018

    Mainoldo Full Member

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    I don’t blame them, we seem to want to replace them as soon as they sign the contract.
  29. Dec 6, 2018

    fezzerUTD New Member

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    Pogba has wanted to leave a while.

    Hazard was world class before and after Jose, was Pogba? Ever world class? not for me.
  30. Dec 6, 2018

    Jeppers7 Full Member

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    So you don't expect any of our other players to perform better than they are doing on a regular basis ? Just Pogba ?

    Lukaku cost £80 million, Matic cost £40 million at 29 years of age....both fees comparable in context.

    Context is the thing that bothers me with posters like you, you try to remove all context to suit your agenda. Pogba in a team that isn't performing, playing with players who aren't performing, with tactics that don't allow for possession or to press and win the ball back, against teams who all have better tactics and are performing better than us......should be dominating games, taking games by the scruff of the neck, scoring, assisting, tackling, defending, tracking runners, getting in the box, playing it simple consistently......but none of our other players should ? Like if we played better as a team and had tactics that allowed for that, he wouldn't be consistently better ?


    Yeah.....he's the problem :houllier:
  31. Dec 6, 2018

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate

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    Where does that come from?
  32. Dec 6, 2018

    fezzerUTD New Member

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    Rioala whoring him around last January. It was well known at the time.
  33. Dec 6, 2018

    Fracture90 Full Member

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    But then again we had Mourinho himself stating that there was no transfer request from either Pogba nor Raiola.
  34. Dec 6, 2018

    Santoryo ripping the reward

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    Spot on.

    I mean when you see someone bring up Smalling as our most consistent and best player this season then you know said person is reaching and being completely disingenuous.

    He's probably hearing voices and that's where he got his info.
  35. Dec 6, 2018

    Janson Full Member

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    Yeah, I was defending Fellaini too at the time. This is a different situation with Pogba.
  36. Dec 6, 2018

    Raven New Member

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    Yes. Because De Gea is more important to our club than Mourinho, whereas Ferguson proved his decision making over and over again.
  37. Dec 6, 2018

    Janson Full Member

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    :)
  38. Dec 6, 2018

    Janson Full Member

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    That was a good one I agree. Tbh, we're probably all somewhat guilty of contributing to the madness.:)
  39. Dec 6, 2018

    The Purley King Full Member

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    Yep - and it was lapped up and resulted in the booing.
    The obvious answer is staring everyone in the face - its JOSE they aren't giving their all for.
    No doubt we've all had shit bosses at some point in life, motivation to do your job well drops (why am I trying my best for this prick?) and you dial it in from time to time. Its certainly happened to me before and it didn't mean I didn't like the company I worked for, just that I thought my boss was a twat.
    Solution = get a different boss.
  40. Dec 6, 2018

    marktan Full Member Scouse Lover

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    And he sold KDB for not being aggressive or intense enough at Chelsea - the exact same things he's saying about Pogba now.