Ronaldo Watch

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by 032Devil, Jul 29, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. May 13, 2011

    KingEric7 Conspiracy enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    23,821
    Whatever your view, an interesting thing to be taken from the amount of Ronaldo's shots that he takes is that, even though he takes many from range, the extent of the creativity he is provided with is extremely impressive. The team is very much built round him also, just as it is with another player that shall not be mentioned in this thread.

    Ozil really is a fecking fantastic player. I was one of the mongs in the summer that said we didn't need him but, had we purchased Ozil then, I think we may have had the Premiership sewn up by February.
  2. May 13, 2011

    KingEric7 Conspiracy enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    23,821
    Well, no, because a dribble may lead to a pass, which may lead to another, which may lead to a goal, just as a shot may lead to a deflection then a tap in for someone else.

    This is an incredibly over-simplified reduction. Stats aren't really an accurate measure for a lot of things as it is, nevermind when you reduce them to this sort of statement. Effectiveness here is surely a lot more complex.

    Not saying anything against Ronaldo here - the guy is a remarkable footballer.
  3. May 13, 2011

    Cal? from Redcafe (matchfixing department)

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    23,184
    Location:
    It's our perch now...
    That's all very true, hence goals per game or even goals per minute are much better statistics than goals per shots.

    That's all I'm getting at.
  4. May 13, 2011

    Rado_N Grinner ruined my tagline

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    51,060
    Location:
    Manchester
    I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that irony.
  5. May 13, 2011

    Cal? from Redcafe (matchfixing department)

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    23,184
    Location:
    It's our perch now...
    There is no need for that, I don't have a problem with people preferring you-know-who and don't need to make up stats to justify my view like FV does.
  6. May 13, 2011

    kouroux Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2007
    Messages:
    41,753
    Location:
    Djibouti (La terre des braves)
    Even if I understand where you're coming from I don't think it's exactly true.In Marseille we have Gignac, who is player who takes many shots each season (once he was the highest shot taker while being injured a third of the season).In one season only he scored consistently.
    Taking too many shots doesn't necessarily mean you'll score, it really depends on the situation and more importantly the quality of the shot taker
  7. May 13, 2011

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    44,258
    Location:
    india
    FV :lol:
  8. May 13, 2011

    Ole'sbodyguard Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Messages:
    4,023
    All this thread needs now is the latest instalment to descend into a multi quote war:lol:

    BTW - How many different variants of the Ronaldo/Messi thread does the football forums have now. I just seen the comparison only thread and Messi features pretty heavily in this thread as well.
  9. May 13, 2011

    Hectic Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    71,134
    Tha't's pretty retarded. If players took as many shots as Ronaldo, they still wouldn't score the same amount of goals. It's not that simple, obviously so much will apply to where they take the shots the player in question too. We aren't all born with the same ability, it's not a case of just Ronaldo being the only guy thinking, yeah, I'll take more shots then everyone else, that will be the difference.

    Hernandez would be on about a 1000 goals a season.
  10. May 13, 2011

    FranklyVulgar Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    10,266
    Location:
    I've got a pretty little mouth underneath all the
    I wont claim to know too much about Gignac, i've seen him a handful of times and he's struck me as utterly useless. My point was never "if any player shoots a lot they will score a lot". It was about Ronaldos need to shoot so much, when he could better serve the team by cutting some of his rediculous efforts (his actual shot accuracy is not all that) and concentrate a little more on the team than his own personal glory. (fat chance given he's on a pedastal as most egotistical footballer ever)

    Answered for me. A dribble can take men out, open space, lead to play, get a team out of trouble, relieve pressure, lead to a shot/assist/goal etc

    How is it any different asks cal? well one is dribbling and one is shooting :lol:
  11. May 13, 2011

    VP Full Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2006
    Messages:
    9,851
    Location:
    Mumbai
    Also your 'United are doing fine without Ronaldo' argument is bollocks.

    We didn't win the league last year and would've done so comfortably if we had him. It's taken a year and half to adjust playing without him and that's also only been helped with the emergence of Hernandez.
  12. May 13, 2011

    kouroux Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2007
    Messages:
    41,753
    Location:
    Djibouti (La terre des braves)
    Then you must realize it's a bit pointless to play on the words.
  13. May 13, 2011

    FranklyVulgar Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    10,266
    Location:
    I've got a pretty little mouth underneath all the
    Not the point. I didnt say a player would score more than ronaldo if they did take as many shots. Just that their chance of a good goal scoring record would be increased.

    And maybe its down to other footballers having the intelligence to pass the ball rather than shoot when it is extreamely unlikely to lead to anything.

    And anyway, it goes back to my point about impact on a team and someone else mentioned it that the team is built around Ronaldo. Just like at Manchester United. Others are sarcrificed in order to give Ronaldo the opportunity to shoot as much as he does.

    So do United play worse football now? They still score the same amount of goals or just about or more?
  14. May 13, 2011

    Cal? from Redcafe (matchfixing department)

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    23,184
    Location:
    It's our perch now...
    I didn't ask you what the difference is, I asked you how effective it'd be. (I'm really starting to have doubts about your English standard)

    You've again completed ignored my question, probably because it doesn't fit your little world view that dribbling is the most important part of football. :houllier:

    A dribble could also lead to cheaply giving away possession and set the opposition on a counter-attack. A shot can also lead to a Gomez (or Almunia) for a team-mate to get a tap-in.
  15. May 13, 2011

    FranklyVulgar Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    10,266
    Location:
    I've got a pretty little mouth underneath all the
    what words, they werent my words. they were the words of others.

    If any attacking forward players shoots as much as Ronaldo they will most likely have an impressive goal scoring record.

    These were my words or something to that effect.
  16. May 13, 2011

    Cal? from Redcafe (matchfixing department)

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    23,184
    Location:
    It's our perch now...
    Wonder why no one ever thought of that? :houllier: Just shoot and shoot some more, everyone will score more if they shoot more.
  17. May 13, 2011

    FranklyVulgar Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    10,266
    Location:
    I've got a pretty little mouth underneath all the
    then read again, i agreed with KingEric7.

    and your last point is all well and good given that Ronaldo gives the ball away trying to dribble alot more than others.

    A shot can also lead to cheaply giving away possession. A goal kick, a throw in, a deflection that falls for the opposition to break.

    The difference is a shot is a shot and a dribble is a dribble. A dribble can have infinate outcomes. A shot can have far fewer. Dribbling can be done anywhere, for many reasons. Shooting is to score and that alone. They are so different that your wierd idea of comparing them is retarded.
  18. May 13, 2011

    Cal? from Redcafe (matchfixing department)

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    23,184
    Location:
    It's our perch now...
    This one really is worth quoting, it probably shot up to #1 of your most ridiculous quotes ever.
  19. May 13, 2011

    VivaRonaldo7 Full Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    5,862
    Location:
    Chester
    Viva Ron
  20. May 13, 2011

    VP Full Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2006
    Messages:
    9,851
    Location:
    Mumbai
    ....
  21. May 13, 2011

    fishfingers15 Contributes to username and tagline changes

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009
    Messages:
    14,221
    Location:
    Nani Are you ok? Are you ok? Are you ok Nani?
    Now that we are talking semantics (bullshit), a shot can lead to rebounds and create goal scoring opportunities.
  22. May 13, 2011

    Cal? from Redcafe (matchfixing department)

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    23,184
    Location:
    It's our perch now...
    Ultimately, the aim of the game is to score, if shooting leads to the same chance of scoring as dribbling - they are equally effective.

    Fact: Ronaldo is the top scorer of La Liga and looking very likely to break the all time La Liga scoring record.
  23. May 13, 2011

    FranklyVulgar Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    10,266
    Location:
    I've got a pretty little mouth underneath all the
    in theory yes. If you tend to score 1 in 5 shots then if you take 10 shots you have a good chance of scoring 2 goals.

    If you have a 1 in 8 then maybe if you take 16 shots you'll have a good chance of scoring a couple.

    It's actually very simple mathmatics.

    I understand that it doesnt work exactly like that, a lot of it is to do with intelligence. Knowing when to shoot and when not to. That's why i do put some value on a good ratio.

    Also when you look at the vast vast majority of goals scored by Ronaldo this season, they've been simple and on the back of great creation from his team mates. If you just look at his goals it makes you wonder what the hell he was doing for his other 210 shots that missed. If you have guys laying them on a plate why waste time missing so much?
  24. May 13, 2011

    kouroux Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2007
    Messages:
    41,753
    Location:
    Djibouti (La terre des braves)
    Like I said, it's pointless to say stuff like "most likely".It's too simple minded to look at it that way.
  25. May 13, 2011

    FranklyVulgar Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    10,266
    Location:
    I've got a pretty little mouth underneath all the
    you ignore everything that goes before shooting. You need to be in a position to shoot, otherwise it's entirely pointless to do so. Dribbling can get your team into the position to shoot, passing can get your team into the position to shoot. SHooting? well you have to have someone giving you the ball or you have to work the ball ie dribble to find the space yourself.

    ROnaldo will break many records, he has already. He'll continue to do so, the guys a machine.
  26. May 13, 2011

    Cal? from Redcafe (matchfixing department)

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    23,184
    Location:
    It's our perch now...
    :lol: Why don't you start your own football club? Train a whole load of players who shoot and shoot (afterall, "If any attacking forward players shoots as much as Ronaldo they will most likely have an impressive goal scoring record.")

    You can then sell them on for 80m each. :lol:
  27. May 13, 2011

    Boss Melodramatic, attention seeking space-attacker

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
    Messages:
    23,912
    Location:
    I left you with enough memories to resurrect me wi
    Naldo also has the ability to muster space for a shot.
  28. May 13, 2011

    FranklyVulgar Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    10,266
    Location:
    I've got a pretty little mouth underneath all the
    nothing is cut and dry in football. It's a theory with a pretty reasonable explination. What would be the point in saying "they definitely would" or "wouldn't"?

    My point is very basic yet treated like it goes against common sense. If you shoot about 100 shots more than anyone else then you probably have a good chance of scoring more goals than anyone else.
  29. May 13, 2011

    Cal? from Redcafe (matchfixing department)

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    23,184
    Location:
    It's our perch now...
    Oh, now suddenly you realise that you need to be in a position to shoot? I thought you just needed to shoot lots to have an impressive scoring record.
  30. May 13, 2011

    kouroux Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2007
    Messages:
    41,753
    Location:
    Djibouti (La terre des braves)
    :lol: well thought
  31. May 13, 2011

    FranklyVulgar Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    10,266
    Location:
    I've got a pretty little mouth underneath all the
    Eh, you've really missed the point.
  32. May 13, 2011

    kouroux Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2007
    Messages:
    41,753
    Location:
    Djibouti (La terre des braves)
  33. May 13, 2011

    FranklyVulgar Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    10,266
    Location:
    I've got a pretty little mouth underneath all the
    that's where the intelligence comes into it. If you are one of the best in the world then you have intelligence in your movement which no doubt Ronaldo has. But there are times where you can shoot or you can do something else like pass the ball, dribble, keep posession, create for someone in a better position etc.

    What would you do? you are in a position to shoot, you would always shoot? Even if the position isnt particuarly good? even if you have a team mate in a better position?
  34. May 13, 2011

    FranklyVulgar Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    10,266
    Location:
    I've got a pretty little mouth underneath all the
    No, because he's in a great team built entirely around his attributes. If you have Ronaldo then maybe you do build the team around him, after all he'll score you a lot of goals.

    Personally i dont like the idea of a team built entirely around one player unless it is going to make the team play better. A play maker is who the team should be built around as then you can control the game.

    Madrid are built to counter fast not to control so much. It's mourinhos way, even at chelsea.

    But Ronaldo is what he is, you cant ignore him. He isnt the kind of guy to just slot in and do a job. He isnt a team player and that's his biggest flaw, he comes before the team, the team is there for him, he isnt there for the team. The team is built to allow him the freedoms.

    it was the same at United, no surprise to me that Rooneys best season came in the absence of Ronaldo.
  35. May 13, 2011

    Rado_N Grinner ruined my tagline

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    51,060
    Location:
    Manchester
    I wish Hernandez had taken more shots, he could have scored 40 :(
  36. May 13, 2011

    kouroux Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2007
    Messages:
    41,753
    Location:
    Djibouti (La terre des braves)
    Just like any team would build the team around its best player.
    Rooney's best came in the absence of Ronaldo not because Ronaldo wasn't there but because the team was built around him just like it was when Ronaldo was at United and just like it is for Messi at Barcelona.
  37. May 13, 2011

    Cal? from Redcafe (matchfixing department)

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    23,184
    Location:
    It's our perch now...
    Ronaldo's scoring record suggests he does the right thing more often than anyone in La Liga.
  38. May 13, 2011

    mariachi-19 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2008
    Messages:
    13,532
    Location:
    I may be the devil, but i'm not a monster
    Because any team in the world is different?? You play to your best players strengths. United are geared towards Rooney, Barcelona are geared towards Messi, Inter were geared around Sneijder last season, City around Tevez, Munich around Robben the list goes on and fecking on. You don't think the likes of Silva, Villa, Ibrah 'last season' haven't made sacrifices? There is no room in one side for two big ego's. Its what I like to call the Galactico effect. Too many big name players playing for themselves in one side causes disharmony and imbalance. So before you start going on with your pretentious bullshit, how about you open your eyes to the reality of football.
  39. May 13, 2011

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2002
    Messages:
    41,940
    Location:
    Founder of IhateMakeleles.org and Gourcufffanboysa
    :lol::lol::lol:
  40. May 13, 2011

    FranklyVulgar Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    10,266
    Location:
    I've got a pretty little mouth underneath all the
    Not the same for me, City have a pretty standard set up, Tevez is just better than what they have as a striker.

    Inter werent geared around anyone, they were a team.

    Munich around Robben? really?

    Yes players will make sarcrifices but Ronaldo is not one of them. the team is sacrificed for Ronaldo. He is that good though but sometimes i feel it can be detremental as football is a team game.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page