Rooney or Van Persie

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Inspectah deck, Mar 5, 2012.

  1. Mar 5, 2012
    #41

    finneh Full Member

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    Van Persie is currently the better player as he is probably behind only Messi/Ronaldo at the moment. I'm sure most people would say Rooney is worth more however due to his age and superior injury record.
  2. Mar 5, 2012
    #42

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    Van Persie has had an amazing 14 months or so but the season Van Persie is having this isn't really anymore impressive goalscoring wise than Rooney in 09/10 and it's conceivable that Rooney may top that this season

    In truth there's very little between them only the fitness question that's still got to be over RVP's head
  3. Mar 5, 2012
    #43

    Decotron Full Member

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    This....
  4. Mar 5, 2012
    #44

    Zen Full Member

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    tbh, he's never shown signs of being this good as well as consistent and still keeping a good a good all round game.

    I wouldn't call it a freak 18 months or so, but he's clearly gone above what anyone would of thought when everyone used to say "theyve always said if RVP was fit they'd have won the title.....but that's the thing, he's never fit", I mean I don't recall many saying he had the potential to be a best (classic type so no messi/ronaldo)striker on the planet by a distance potential, which he is right now.....it's actually purely hysterical that the season he's actually fit throughout, they've never stood even the smallest chance of winning the league.
  5. Mar 5, 2012
    #45

    vuc First Team Serb

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    Here's a question.

    If Rooney was playing for Arsenal would he have more of an impact than the one Van Persie has had for them?

    And, if Van Persie was playing for United, would he have made a bigger impact than Rooney has?
  6. Mar 5, 2012
    #46

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    Just this season or in general?
  7. Mar 5, 2012
    #47

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

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    Van Persie right now and quite easily too.
  8. Mar 5, 2012
    #48

    John_Jensen Full Member

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    Just wrong. He has, which is why all Arsenal fans have always had a lot more patience with him than any of our other sick notes.

    His percentages, effectiveness and ability to affect matches against top qualityopposition(as well as produce the extraordinary) have never been in doubt, he just kept getting cut down when he was hitting his stride.
  9. Mar 5, 2012
    #49

    surf Full Member

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    That's two questions.
  10. Mar 5, 2012
    #50

    Cina Warrior Princess

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    Basically this. They're both brilliant, but Rooney is younger sonfor that reason he pips it
  11. Mar 5, 2012
    #51

    FlawlessThaw most 'know it all' poster

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    If Rooney was at Arsenal he would slot right in, he would score a few less goals as he is not as good of a striker as Van Persie. But he has shown he can fill that role well when he played it similar for us couple of years ago.

    If Van Persie was at United, we would have to change the system for him for him to make a similar impact at Arsenal. (That is instead of Rooney, as if we had both nothing would have to change).
  12. Mar 5, 2012
    #52

    vuc First Team Serb

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    In general.
  13. Mar 5, 2012
    #53

    Hectic Moderator

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    I think that's harsh. He's shown he is capable of exactly this, but the reason we haven't been able to see it is because he can't finish a season without crocking himself all over. He's had one of the longest uninjured spells for Arsenal, which is why we are seeing his quality in full force. It's like a player never having a pre-season, and than suddenly he's given two. After the next game, this season so far would have seen him play the most league games in his entire Arsenal career.
  14. Mar 5, 2012
    #54

    Aint gota Kalou Full Member

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    Neither would have as bigger impact as United are set out to compliment Rooney and Arsenal are designed to get the best out of RVP.

    If you swapped them Rooney would probably have a better chance of performing to the standard of RVP as he's shown he's capable of doing that role before whereas I can't remember RVP having a top class season as a supporting striker.
  15. Mar 5, 2012
    #55

    Jacob Full Member

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    van Persie is the better striker by some distance, Rooney however, is the better allround player imo.
  16. Mar 5, 2012
    #56

    JazzG Resident Arse.

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    That season Rooney had 26 league goals and 34 overall, RvP has 25 in the league already and 31 overall. I'd say RvP's record this season has been more impressive.

    From 01/01/2011 upto now RvP has 43 league goals in 44 games. I'm not sure even if Shearer, Henry or C.Ronaldo ever went through a patch like that!
  17. Mar 5, 2012
    #57

    Hectic Moderator

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    Well, Ronaldo right now has 30 goals in 25 league games for Madrid, with last season finishing 40 goals in 34 games. That's 70 goals in 59 games. I think his patch is the best there is.
  18. Mar 5, 2012
    #58

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    Rooney had 31 goals until he got injured in March away to Bayern. So far there's very little between RVP season this year and Rooney's back then and who knows RVP could just be one training session away from being crocked again
  19. Mar 5, 2012
    #59

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

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    I don't think Van Persie is up there with Henry or Ronaldo, even as he is right now, but Rooney has never hit these levels for me.
  20. Mar 5, 2012
    #60

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Can't really compare across leagues, for all sorts of reasons.
  21. Mar 5, 2012
    #61

    Zen Full Member

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    I don't think it's wrong or harsh at all.....I've always had time to praise RVP for his game and attitude and claimed for him to be on the level of Torres, Drogba and Rooney(when the were Top 4's leading men)...but never expected him to completely set a new bar for the Premiership, which is exactly what he's done this year imo and the final few months of last season.

    And I think he has had one stretch prior to this where(with assists) he had a hand in a goal per game being mid 08/09....he's gone above that now, so that's not really a lie either, unless you are counting like 5 game stretches or something.

    Also, Rooneys was 26 goals in 29 before injury
  22. Mar 5, 2012
    #62

    vuc First Team Serb

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    Yeh, that was around the christmas period. Something like 10 goals scored by Arsenal where he was directly responsible for them.
  23. Mar 5, 2012
    #63

    kouroux Full Member

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    Since their career has begun, it has to be Rooney since a year ago, it's easily RVP.
  24. Mar 5, 2012
    #64

    Feed Me I'm hungry

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    RvP at Arsenal - 126 in 268 = 0.47 goals per game.
    Rooney at United - 169 in 352 = 0.48 goals per game.

    Rooney has plundered goals against City, Arsenal, Tottenham and Chelsea this season.

    So both of your points are rendered null and void.

    If you consider the amount Rooney has been played anywhere but centre forward in his time here, then that makes his tally seriously impressive.

    This is not to say that RvP isn't a smashing player, or that it's not close between them, but you should probably think before making such baseless statements.
  25. Mar 5, 2012
    #65

    Cheesy Full Member

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    RVP is now proving himself as the better player in my mind. People say that he's in the form of his life, however that's because he's finally been able to get rid of his injury prone nature. He's been nearly as good as he is now for a number of years, but he's just able to constantly show it now because he's able to play week in week out.
  26. Mar 5, 2012
    #66

    Feed Me I'm hungry

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    This season and last:

    RvP = 69 games, 53 goals = 0.77 goals per game
    Rooney = 70 games, 38 goals = 0.54 goals per game

    Certainly, RvP has had an astonishing spell in the past year or two. I'm surprised that Wayne's record is still so consistent given his various problems.

    My only issue in this sort of debate is when people throw around phrases like "easily" better - you're talking about two of the league's premier players. There is a fag paper between them. At any given time when you have the debate, it's often down to form as to who is the better player.

    I don't think anyone can convincingly argue that RvP is "easily" better than Rooney, or vice versa.
  27. Mar 5, 2012
    #67

    Feed Me I'm hungry

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    You say this as though Rooney has had a blemish free injury run...
  28. Mar 5, 2012
    #68

    ArmchairCritic You got pets me too mines are dead

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    Rooney, goal record doesn't have much in it as Feed Me says. I think Rooney edges it for his creativity and work rate for me, I think it says a lot that both joined their respective clubs in the same year yet RVP has played far less games even though Rooney has never been bullet proof on the injury front. Big game wise there's little in it, Rooney has been tremendous for us in the last year in big games. Obviously Rooney seems to have a lower bottom level but the United bias in me still gives it to Rooney by a shade. Rooney's also younger and has a lot of experience when it comes to winning trophies so if I had to pick one to have in my squad it would have to be Wayne Rooney.
  29. Mar 5, 2012
    #69

    Cheesy Full Member

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    Van Persie didn't really hit the ground running when he went to Arsenal though, did he? Correct me if I'm wrong, but his goalscoring records for his first couple of years at Arsenal were quite poor, in comparison to Rooney who's generally never had a season where his goalscoring records were incredibly poor. We are comparing the two players now, so you wouldn't really take into consideration goalscoring form from about six or seven years ago. I know Rooney is a lot more than an out and out striker though.

    You're right about the big games thing though. That was a bit random as one of the best things about Rooney is that he often does deliver in the big games for us.
  30. Mar 5, 2012
    #70

    Feed Me I'm hungry

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    The stats show that there is barely anything in it, though Rooney actually just edges it.

    Makes me laugh when people say "easily" RvP and then justify by saying that he's a more consistent goal getter. That is simply untrue.

    And, by and large, Rooney has always grabbed 'big game' goals if you look throughout his career.
  31. Mar 5, 2012
    #71

    Feed Me I'm hungry

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    You can't hold it against Rooney that RvP didn't really do the business for a couple of years and that Rooney himself was a prodigy capable of being a fulcrum at such a tender age!
  32. Mar 5, 2012
    #72

    ArmchairCritic You got pets me too mines are dead

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    To be fair RVP was a few years older when he joined too, although I think he might have played out wide a bit when he first came which would effect his goalscoring stats. Also Wayne was hardly prolific for Everton was he? He also joined at an awkward period for us.
  33. Mar 5, 2012
    #73

    Feed Me I'm hungry

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    Rooney has played a hell of a lot out of position too. It's also testament to Rooney that he managed to bag a number of goals during a period when United weren't particularly great.

    The stats bear out my point overall: there is barely anything between them overall.

    In the past year, RvP has edged it. But it's conceivable that Rooney is on for a 30-goal season himself.
  34. Mar 5, 2012
    #74

    Cheesy Full Member

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    I'm not holding it against Rooney, but you said that he was the more consistent goalscorer because he had a slightly better goal record. That record takes 7 years into account, but you can't really judge goalscoring consistency over such a long period when comparing players, you should only really do it over the past couple of years, and in that time, Van Persie has definitely been the more consistent goalscorer.
  35. Mar 5, 2012
    #75

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

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    Depends on what you take easily to be. Some people will argue Nani isn't easily better than Valencia. I definitely think he is. Right now Van Persie is easily better than Rooney for me. That obviously doesn't mean he's miles better. It just means that it's clear as day to me that as of now or as of the last year and a half he's clearly better. As I've said before, Rooney has never hit this sort of ridiculous level that we're currently and now for awhile have been seeing from Van Persie. Stats are all well and good but I just see a different level of influence and effectiveness from him than any other player right now.

    I would put Silva, Rooney, Nani etc all in the same bracket of players in the premier league when it comes to attackers. And I think Van Persie has just breezed past the lot of them. It's not just the statistics for me. He is scoring goals left, right and centre and doing so through individual brilliance and inspiring what is not the greatest Arsenal side. They looked in shambles at the start of the season and have at times during it but he's come back again and again with even better performances. Every other week he's coming up with a moment of pure magic and that's what separates him right now. Rooney even when he is scoring goals doesn't destroy teams the way Van Persie does right now or the way Ronaldo or Henry did even more effectively (in my opinion) in the past. You just have to ask yourself whether Rooney has ever gotten close to the likes of Henry and Ronaldo who were probably this leagues best players. Is he leaving people in absolutely no doubt of his utter brilliance? And the answer in my opinion is a clear no (relative of course). Van Persie isn't there yet but the fact that comparisons are being made tells you everything.
  36. Mar 5, 2012
    #76

    ArmchairCritic You got pets me too mines are dead

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    This is very true as well, to be fair to Rooney the past few seasons are the first where he's been the main man here. If you ignore the period at the start of last season where he came back from a bad World Cup to numerous tabloid stories about his personal life before handing a transfer request. Then I think his goalscoring record will have been awesome for us as the main man.
  37. Mar 5, 2012
    #77

    Feed Me I'm hungry

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    Surely the barometer of a 'consistent' goalscorer is the ability to score a good amount over a prolonged period? You can't just pick the time parameters to suit, because then you'll always sample a period of time to match your argument. The fairest comparison is across their respective careers at their current clubs - even more so given they joined in the same season.

    Rooney has played more games than RvP, and has a better ratio, ergo he's the more consistent scorer.

    It seems to me you're excluding a couple of years at the beginning because RvP wasn't really at the races. That's not Wayne's fault.
  38. Mar 5, 2012
    #78

    Cheesy Full Member

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    No, I'm just saying that in a comparison thread you can't really say that Rooney is the more consistent goalscorer than Van Persie because of records over a 7-year period. So much has changed since then. Van Persie is a million times better as a player now than he was back when he originally signed for Arsenal. Rooney is as well for us, but unlike Rooney, Van Persie was no more than an average player when he first joined Arsenal.

    I can understand taking records over a period of time longer than a season, but 7 years is absolutely useless and tells you nothing. If both players were similar in ability now to what they were back then, I'd understand, but they're not. Both, especially Van Persie, are completely different players now. 7 years can't be used to say that Rooney is a more consistent goalscorer than Van Persie, and it certainly can't be used to say that he's a better player than Van Persie.

    It's flawed logic by saying that. There would've been a stage when Rooney had a better goalscoring ratio for us than Ronaldo did, because Ronaldo generally didn't score a lot of goals in his earlier days, even though Ronaldo was clearly the much more consistent goalscorer later on his career, and he still is, but has a better goalscoring ratio now.

    In fact, both players, Van Persie and Rooney that is, have a lot more to their games than goals, so it shouldn't be the main factor used to compare them.
  39. Mar 5, 2012
    #79

    Red_Aaron Full Member

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    Rooney, if he was at Arsenal they'd have won something by now
  40. Mar 5, 2012
    #80

    ArmchairCritic You got pets me too mines are dead

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    :confused:

    I'm sure RVP was actually very highly rated when he came, we were scouting him too I think but SAF said he got sent off so we left it. Obviously he wasn't as highly rated as Rooney at the time but I don't think he was ever seen as average.

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