Rooney or Van Persie

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Inspectah deck, Mar 5, 2012.

  1. Mar 7, 2012

    Feed Me I'm hungry

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    Have you even read the thread?

    You're getting your panties in a twist even though a good number of United fans are arguing in favour of RvP.
  2. Mar 7, 2012

    Feed Me I'm hungry

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    It's natural I was going to bump the thread, since the discussion we were having was so recent.

    I'm sorry, but the miss was absolutely abysmal. He should have buried it instead of fannying around.
  3. Mar 7, 2012

    thepolice123 Full Member

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    Looks like I've touched on some touchy subject.:lol::nervous:

    When I first said Rooney's play outside the box is nearly Xavi/Iniesta-esque its because I've seen him do sexy controls, turn of the waist to throw markers off balance and create space to make the pass, he has also shown the intelligence dictate the play.

    Then again, its not really ludicrous to think that highly of Rooney's playmaking abilities because it is one of his major strengths as a footballer. In fact, I'll have him as the best trequartista in the world currently. His playing style would serve as a model for future aspiring trequartistas.

    I guess it is mostly about different football philosophies. Xavi and Iniesta prefers to build up the play through careful, patient short passes, whereas Rooney's opinion would be to split the defence with a single pass ala Scholes, Alonso. Many people tend to think of Xavi and Iniesta as some kind of playmaking god (well, they indeed are) because tiki-taka football, after Total Football of the 70s, are seldom seen by the younger generation and introduces a radical concept to them. Just because Rooney doesn't play like them, it sure don't mean he far and away from their level.
  4. Mar 7, 2012

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    And hereby lies the problem I have with RVP, his goal scoring has been phenomenal but there's been too many games where he's scored when Arsenal have lost, played badly and he's played badly but the goal scoring is skewering peoples opinions of him.
  5. Mar 7, 2012

    thepolice123 Full Member

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    It is dire because any good team who has numerical advantage in midfield or hardworking, mobile midfielders, our midfield would be in trouble. I don't think I need to remind you what happened at Norwich or against Ajax. Rooney is the only forward in our team who has the work ethic and intelligence to come deep into midfield and play there. Without him our attack would be so disjointed.
  6. Mar 7, 2012

    FlawlessThaw most 'know it all' poster

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    I guess it goes to show that RVP quite clearly does not score when he wants
  7. Mar 7, 2012

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

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    Not at all. So what, tomorrow Rooney has an off day and I update this? How is that relevant to the comparison? Would it tilt the comparison in favor of Van Persie for someone who gave Rooney the edge prior to the game?
  8. Mar 7, 2012

    peterstorey Specialist In Failure

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    Don't remind him that Wenger signed RvP for £2.75M or those panties will fly up his arse.
  9. Mar 7, 2012

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

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    No, you said something so daft that people are amazed.

    You, what?


    :lol:

    This whole paragraph almost has me in splits. You're just trying to find ways of convincing yourself that Rooney as a playmaker is up there with two of the best playmakers in the world.
  10. Mar 7, 2012

    Jopub From Barca to Orient - back down to earth with a b

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    Course i've read it but generally my point stands
  11. Mar 7, 2012

    Jopub From Barca to Orient - back down to earth with a b

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    "Thomas..It's up for grabs now - Thomas, righ
    Whats that got to do with anything? Your point is ?

    RvP was always a great signing - but he's a forward where Wenger generally is on safer ground

    I could of course reel off about 15-20 defenders costing ten times as much who would'nt get in the fkin conference league

    ...but I would'nt derail the thread
  12. Mar 7, 2012

    vuc First Team Serb

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    It's a fair point, but I'll think you find that he has a hand in most of their goals and will be influential to some degree - the main thing though is the way he is able to get killer goals. I remember Arsenal were down 1-0 to Sunderland with 20 minutes left and he came on and got a brace. That kind of thing is special.
  13. Mar 7, 2012

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    Just FYI it's laughable to suggest Rooney is anywhere near as good as Xavi and Iniesta in any aspect (well he may be a best header of the 3, but touch, control, technique, passing etc etc he's not at their level)
  14. Mar 7, 2012

    Annihilate Now! Broke the caf 07/01/14

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    Don't be ridiculous... you've just cherry picked two games there to prove a non-existent point. You haven;t even picked good examples either, as our midfield against Ajax contained non-central midfielder Park and a returning To Cleverley (in a tie that we won), and against Norwich we had more possession (depending on what site you get such stats from, I used The Guardian), created some very good chances, and our midfield actually played quite well for the most... it was just our overall sloppyness that allowed Norwich back into the game (after we went 4-5-1 funnily enough).

    Our midfield have seemingly coped just fine for the majority of last season, and countless games other games this season... We've controlled games against Liverpool and Arsenal recently, and that was largely thanks to Carrick, Giggs and Scholes being quite brilliant in the middle of the park.

    Also, Rooney was meant to be playing in that role on Sunday against Spurs and we were still being overrun in the first half there...
  15. Mar 7, 2012

    Gio Full Member

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    A measure of how good a touch is how consistent it is. On their day there are any number of professionals who can shoot like Ronaldo, pass like Fabregas or dribble like Iniesta. Doing it every week is the difference.
  16. Mar 7, 2012

    Annihilate Now! Broke the caf 07/01/14

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    I hit the post 4 times whilst playing 5-aside last night and scored no goals.

    Thus, I can confirm that I'm as good as Luis Suarez on my day....
  17. Mar 7, 2012

    Hectic Full Member

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    Well, no, your point doesn't stand, because generally there aren't threads comparing Rooney vs RVP....The one thread that does have such a comparison, is clearly very supporting of RVP.
  18. Mar 7, 2012

    Hectic Full Member

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    I swear almost none of your post is related to anything.
  19. Mar 7, 2012

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

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    :lol:

    That's how I felt after reading but I couldn't relate to it.
  20. Mar 7, 2012

    thepolice123 Full Member

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    I'd give you Norwich. Against Ajax we had Scholes who came on at the 61st minute and managed to out-shite even Park. Ajax have a system that is quite similar to Barcelona, how they implement it may be different but the idea remains the same: Concentrate on the midfield.

    Our midfield situation is dire because in a 3-man midfield, none of them can provide us the goals or link up with the forward, a 2-man midfield (containing either a 38-year old or 36-year old with Carrick) will be showed up against any decent opposition. Our shambolic European outings against Baselx2 and Benfica will prove how crap we are with the 3-man midfield. I don't think I need to show you how our 09/10 season, where we regularly played a midfield triangle of Scholes-Carrick-Fletcher, while solid as it is, fell apart when Rooney got himself injured.

    We have managed to maintain our top-level performance for the past two year is because we have Rooney's robust play and team ethic to track back and help out the midfield. This is Fergie's solution to the problem and the reason why we haven't bought any midfielders, yet. Our weakness in midfield is well-documented, and by having such an invaluable player (Tell me which forward can do what he does) in Rooney who can drop deep and form a 3rd man in midfield with or without the ball, we can paper over the cracks.

    Against Spurs we had Scholes who had a day to forget in midfield. While he maintained a high passing percentage, he only managed a low 37 passes in 61 minutes. We also struggled to deal with Modric who came to midfield from the left regularly to control the play.
  21. Mar 7, 2012

    thepolice123 Full Member

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    My point is that it is a matter of perception. With Tiki-Taka football, you get to see Xavi and Iniesta regularly on the ball. Naturally, this will give one the deep impression of their playmaking abilities - because they are on the ball most of the time, they are playmaking, they are brilliant!

    Rooney is a great playmaker too. But he does it differently.
  22. Mar 7, 2012

    Annihilate Now! Broke the caf 07/01/14

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    Your revisionism is truly astonishing... you make it sound as if Rooney is the only reason we've actually won any game, and indeed anything at all in the past 2 years.

    It's going way off-topic, so I'm not dragging this out anymore... but I find your serious devaluing of what Carrick/Scholes/Giggs et.al. bring to our team to be about as bad as your insistance that Rooney is somehow comparable with Xavi and Iniesta.
  23. Mar 7, 2012

    TheHorse'sMouth Full Member

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    Iniesta has certainly overtaken Xavi in my opinion, yes. Has for about a season and a half.
  24. Mar 7, 2012

    TheHorse'sMouth Full Member

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    'Sexy controls'..'the best trequartista in the world'... :lol::lol:
  25. Mar 7, 2012

    kouroux Full Member

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    :lol:
  26. Mar 7, 2012

    kouroux Full Member

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    Maybe it is an indication that his playmaking abilities are a clear level below the two players you mentioned.The fact that you're alone on this might give help you understand you went a bit OTT
  27. Mar 7, 2012

    KM I’m afraid I just blue myself

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    Your point was that since this is a Man Utd forum, People are gonna say Rooney. Majority have said RvP, so what was the point of your post?
  28. Mar 7, 2012

    wr8_utd :'(

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    Rooney has 12 goals vs Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Spurs and Liverpool this year.
  29. Mar 7, 2012

    wr8_utd :'(

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    I kind of agree. And I don't agree with people who have him down as the 3rd best player in the world after Ronaldo and Messi.
  30. Mar 7, 2012

    TheReligion Abusive

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    As said, Rooney offers more in his all round game than RVP.

    Technically, RVP is better, but Rooney excels at pretty much everything else...

    Further to that, the person saying RVP scores much better goals wants to look at a Rooney compilation and perhaps consider that again.
  31. Mar 7, 2012

    peterstorey Specialist In Failure

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    RVP has been better this last 18 months, but Rooney has been better over the last few years. Both are a shade off world-class IMO.
  32. Mar 7, 2012

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    That's actually an amazing return

    3 v Chelsea
    3 v Arsenal
    2 v City
    2 v Spurs
    2 v Liverpool

    We should point out however that 4 of those were penalties though
  33. Mar 8, 2012

    vuc First Team Serb

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    This is no doubt impressive, I've said this before though and it will be the last time. RVP has also delivered in big games, not just this year but for a while and if it came down to having either Rooney or RVP in a big match I would pick RVP cause I trust him more to make something spectacular happen or score the winning goal.

    I am not saying Rooney doesn't do it, because after all the shit-ton of stats prove he does but my personal preference is RVP especially when we are talking about them playing up front.
  34. Mar 8, 2012

    vuc First Team Serb

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    In playmaking? I don't think he has. Iniesta is a more complete player I would agree with that but Xavi is still the guy who makes them tick.

    Also, isn't Xavi in double figures for goals scored this season?
  35. Mar 8, 2012

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    Maybe it's down to the quality of the two teams but when we play Arsenal Rooney ALWAYS looks to more dangerous of the two, granted though (and this goes back to my earlier point) Van Persie is still liable to score a goal after contributing sod all else in a game but I'd personally prefer a player who's going to look threatening all game rather than someone who may only get one chance and score because the former is obviously going to be involved a lot more and give you a higher chance of actually winning.
  36. Mar 8, 2012

    cesc's_mullet Get a haircut Hippy!

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    Rooney always likes playing us.
  37. Mar 8, 2012

    Feed Me I'm hungry

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    I'm happy to go with that.

    The notion that RvP has reached a Henry/Ronaldo level is what I disagreed with. He's got some to go yet.
  38. Mar 8, 2012

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

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    Noone said he's at their level. I said for these 18 months he's been somewhere close to that. In that he's got that individual brilliance that the most phenomenal players this league has seen have had. Ive already said in another thread that Ronaldo was better. He saw more of the ball, went past players, crossed the ball and did his goalscoring from wide positions. I'd pick ronaldo over even this van persie every time. Same goes Henry. Henry like VP had the brilliance but he had more ways to hurt you with. His work in the buildup was amazing. He almost ran the show for arsenal.

    But while he isn't at that level yet it is comparable in many ways especially the ability to turn games and win them through sheet brilliance. I'd sandwitch Van Persie in the last 18 months between those two players' and rooney's level. Probably more towards their end than his.

    Goes without saying that Rooney was better before those 18 months. But 18 months is a long enough time for a player being better to currently be better imo.
  39. Mar 8, 2012

    wr8_utd :'(

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    How are they both a shade off world class? I don't think there have been any better strikers than these two in the past 18 months (Ronaldo and Messi don't count) so they're both quite easily world class imo.
  40. Mar 8, 2012

    Zen Full Member

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    Why don't Messi and Ronaldo count again? One plays in almost the same position as Rooney and the other even more advanced but further out wide....peter probably correctly thinks world class means his firxt XI, and well because of those two being in it, there probably isn't space for either in his XI, especially in a 433....thus a shade of his vision of world class.

    Need to stop getting so defensive.

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