Roulette Draft - R1: 2mufc0 vs Enigma

Discussion in 'Draft Games Forum' started by Indnyc, Sep 10, 2018.

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Who will win this match

Poll closed Sep 11, 2018.
  1. 2mufc0

    66.7%
  2. Enigma_87

    33.3%
  1. Sep 10, 2018
    #1

    Indnyc Full Member

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    2Mufc0 Vs. Enigma

    [​IMG]vs.[​IMG]

    Tactics 2mufc0


    Formation 4-3-3

    I have built the team based on the totaalvoetbal philosophy. I would like to make clear i am not trying to replicate a specific team in the past, however i have tried to stay true philosophy by picking technically good players who are able to interchange, were hard workers for the most part, and comfortable on the ball...both vertically and horizontally. To add, the starting 11 consists of 7 Dutch players who have vast amount of experience in the principles of the team.

    Defence

    Starting at the back Van der Saar commands the box an excellent goalkeeper as well as being great on the ball, his distribution is up there with the best. At the centre of the defence is Krol who has the sweeper role and the go to man in defence when building from the back, Campbell partners him as the athletic and robust stopper.

    Brazilian duo Junior and Carlos Alberto take up the full back positions both able to play-make from the wings and provide support for the wingers. Both are also watertight defensively, providing the cover required when defending.

    Midfield

    At the base of the midfield is Italian maestro Luis Monti, not only a great DM and marker, but also a perceptive passer of the ball to more advanced players. To the left of him is van Hanegem the play-maker in the midfield looking to pick up the ball and play the attackers through. Gullit is the third midfielder and has the most license to attack, picking the ball up from deep positions he will cause havoc running at the opposition defence and making those off the ball runs into the box.

    Attack

    Bergkamp is the central play making striker in the team, with his intelligent movement he will drag the opposition defenders around creating gaps for the other attackers to exploit, he will also be in and around the box getting in positions to score. On the wings Keizer and Robben provide that direct attacking threat and will love to interchange with Bergkamp, also passed from deep by Krol, Monti, WVH they will be able to use their pace to get behind the opposition defence. And also not to forget Bergkamp's ability to latch onto long balls and create magic like he did vs Argentina in the 98 World Cup.

    Thoughts on the game

    • The opposition does not have a dedicated DM to limit Gullit, who will pretty much be in his elements considering Bergkamp's link-up ability ahead of him. If Tigana and Breitner are constantly worrying about him, that will definitely limit their box-to-box potential.
    • However, on my team i have arguably the best DM in the draft after Desailly in terms of anchoring and marking ability, Monti is famous for keeping Mathias Sindelar quiet and i would back him to do a similar job on Rivelino - who wasn't the greatest athlete.
    • Leo Junior has a good record vs the attacker he's facing as well as the oppositions best player - Rummenigge. For Brazil when both were on the pitch they met 2 times and Brazil won the games by a margin of 6-2 with Kalle only contributing to 1 assist and being handled quite well by Junior when they went head-to-head, whereas Junior scored 2 free-kick goals in these games and laid off an assist for Toninho. Also of interest is the fact that the West German defense featured Forster. In Serie A they met twice and both games were draws, albeit with Junior in midfield.
    • Can Marzolini keep up with Robben? Robben has been clocked as one of the fastest footballers ever and the fastest in the 2014 World Cup.
    • #1 and #2 best defenders on the pitch in Krol and Alberto to mastermind the defense: the former a World Cup finalist captain and one of the greatest sweepers of all time who finished Ballon D'Or 3rd in the position (also Serie A Footballer of the Year at Napoli), and the latter renowned for his role as a World Cup winning captain.
    • Forster was a solid defender but was famous as a man marker, here he has no one to mark, Bergkamp is not a traditional striker and will be moving all over the front line and deep, will Forster be able to curb his natural game and hold his position? Or will he get dragged around - creating holes for Gullit, among others, to exploit?
    Tactics Enigma

    Formation: 4-2-3-1
    Defensive line: normal
    Style: direct, fast tempo. Quick one twos, variety in attack and interchanging up top with Tostao being a great foil for Rummenigge and moving the opposition defenders out of their zones.

    Team Profiles:

    GK: Jean-Marie Pfaff -
    one of the very best keepers of the 80's. Pillar at the back for club and country and received numerous personal accolades, being the first to receive IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper with a stiff competition among Dasayev, Zenga, van Breukelen etc.

    LB: Silvio Marzolini - The only South American in the World Cup all-star team, Silvio Marzolini is arguably the best Argentinian left-back of all-time. At 26, he looked elegant even when he was tackling and loved to run with the ball – he rarely overran it either, instinctively sensing when the right pass was on. In 1966, he was slightly better than Inter and Italy legend Giacinto Facchetti and might be more highly rated if he hadn’t rejected lucrative offers to stay at his beloved Boca Juniors. He had a fantastic career with Boca Juniors, winning five league titles and one Copa Argentina, whilst being a solid pillar in the defensive unit.

    CB: Hector Chumpitaz - Chumpitaz was considered one of the outstanding defenders in South America. He will be responsible for organizing and commanding the defensive unit. His strength and speed would come in handy defending against 2mufc0 attackers both on the ground and in the air.

    CB: Karl-Heinz Forster - One of the most brilliant, yet often overlooked defenders in German football's rich history is Karlheinz Foerster. Although his time came after the glory years of the 1970s, he was perhaps Germany's most important defender in the early 1980s. A center-back, Foerster spent most of his career at Stuttgart before moving to Marseille for his final four years of professional football. VfB were by no means Germany's preeminent powers during his time in Germany, and Foerster won just one title with the Swabians: the 1983-84 Bundesliga. Right up there as one of the best man markers and stoppers of all time.

    RB: Manuel Amoros - Best right back in Mexico 86' and voted team of the tournament he provided solid performances against the likes of Brazil, France, the Soviet Union, etc in a team that conceded just 2 goals up until the SF's against West Germany. He provided defensive solidity and had a amazing performance against Brazil in the QF's, where he ripped them apart going forward. One of the best and most balanced full backs of all time, equally good providing forward and being solid at the back.

    LCM: Jean Tigana - From Claude Makelele to Didier Deschamps and even now N'Golo Kante, France have had some geniuses in this position, but none finer than Jean Tigana. A really classy central midfielder, Tigana had it all; stamina, technique, vision. He won 52 caps for the national team, winning the European Championships and making two World Cup semi-finals. Tigana was runner-up to compatriot Michel Platini in the 1984 Ballon d'Or.

    RCM: Paul Breitner -Former Real Madrid and Bayern Munich midfielder, Paul Breitner is one of the most decorated German footballers of all time. Capable of playing in a number of different positions, Breitner was best known for his amazing partnership with Karl-Heinz Rummenige at Bayern Munich. The German midfielder was an integral part of the West Germany squad which won the 1974 World Cup, even scoring in the final. He also scored in the 1982 World Cup final making him one of only 4 players (Zidane, Pele, Vava) to have scored in two World Cup finals. Breitner was also supremely successful at club level, putting in influential performances from the centre of the field, where he dictated the flow of play with his excellent distribution and positioning skills. Winner of multiple Bundesliga, La Liga titles along with the World Cup and the European Cup, Breitner is undoubtedly one of the greatest German players of all time.

    LWF: Rob Rensenbrink - One of Netherlands greatest wingers, Rensenbrink isn’t the first name many people would remember from the great Dutch side’s of the 70’s, but he was crucial in the two World Cups at the time. A creative left winger of great skill, talented dribbler as well as a cool finisher and defensive infiltrator. He only ever missed two penalties in his entire career, and often enjoyed telling the keeper before hand where he was going to place the ball, and then still beating him there.

    AM: Rivelino - Integral part of Brazil's best team ever he was one of those players who can dribble you in a phone booth and was an example for the younger generation. He possessed enormous flair and talent with a cannonball of a shot(named “The Atomic Kick”).

    RWF: Karl-Heinz Rummenigge - a quote from El Mundo Deportivo back in 82 describes him best - "It hasn’t been a coincidence that he’s been voted two consecutive seasons in a row as the best European player. He has been the indisputable best player in Europe and for his country. The WC won’t be a deciding factor to his reputation, because he is already an accomplished player at the age of 26, and regarded as one of the major stars in the world. Success at the WC will just confirm for Germany that they have one of the greatest players in their history."

    CF: Tostao - When recalling that incredible Seleção, the names just trip off the tongue – Pelé, Jairzinho, Rivelino, Carlos Alberto, Gerson – all heroes in eternity. Yet, one man – in my opinion – rarely receives the praise he deserves for his part in their success. He was a short, slight, waspish figure; graceful and lithe with the unshakeable balance of a gymnast. He oozed the kind of creativity we see these days in the likes of Andres Iniesta. He has a stunning return of 249 goals in 378 appearances for Cruzeiro and up to date the clubs top goalscorer.

    Defence:
    Solid, complimentary unit with some of the well known faces in all time drafts. Two balanced full backs, perfectly capable of handling the opposition wingers, but also contribute going forward. A classic stopper/ sweeper combination oozing class both on the deck and in the air.

    Midfield:
    Our midfield is one of our main strengths - one of the best box to box midfielders of all time in Tigana and Breitner, coupled with the industrious Roberto Rivellino. Our midfield is full of grit, flair and defensive stability, being able to get the ball back quickly and launch counters via our quick and creative wide forwards.

    Attack:
    Interchangeable attacking unit known with its goalscoring prowess, trickery and flair. Our attack is well capable of scoring in and outside the box and is based on the great chemistry between Rivelino/Tostao and Breitner/Kalle.

    Main adgvantages:
    Breitnigge - enough said. Maybe the most well known and appreciated duo in history(along with the Barca midgets :D).
    Rivelino/Tostao - another familiar combo and two players that formed(alongside Jairzinho and Pele) the most fearsome and fluid attack in history.
    Solid and well balanced unit all round - we don't have a weak spot in our team. Great midfield and defence couple with some of the best and well known attacking players in the game.
  2. Sep 10, 2018
    #2

    Indnyc Full Member

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  3. Sep 10, 2018
    #3

    Enigma_87 You know who

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  4. Sep 10, 2018
    #4

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    I'll open up with a great piece on Tostao. Well worth the read!

    THE UNSPOKEN GENIUS OF TOSTAO
    Mark Godfrey
    [​IMG]

    I remember the day we got our first video player very clearly. Note I said video player, not recorder; we weren’t that flush. It was a Saisho and I think, but can’t be sure, that it was from Rumbelows and as a special offer it came with three free video tapes. The first was most appealing: a Thundercats compilation.



    The second held no interest whatsoever. It was a movie called Being There and was the last to star comedy legend Peter Sellers. To this day I’ve never seen it.

    As for the third freebie, well, that was the real unexpected gem. I knew who Dire Straits were from their hugely successful hits Money For Nothing and Walk Of Life but hadn’t taken to them precisely because of those famed recordings. Making Movies was their third album and the promo videos for the album’s singles made up the last and most treasured of the tapes we got with the cut-price Japanese addition to our council estate Shangri-La. The standout tracks were the achingly beautiful love song Romeo And Juliet and the epic Tunnel Of Love, with its fairground waltzer intro and adolescent recollections of Whitley Bay’s erstwhile amusement arcades at the town’s iconic Spanish City. The video for the latter was all-the-more memorable for the appearance of the impossibly flawless Leslie Ash in the role of Mark Knopfler’s muse.

    Why am I banging on about this you might ask? Well, the very first video purchased to go with our new household investment was an extended highlights package of Brazil’s 1970 World Cup campaign. For the life of me, I can’t remember its name and can find no trace of it hidden in any long forgotten old box or cramped loft space at my parents’ house. Having scoured the internet, I first thought it was Boys From Brazil: The Official BBC History Of The Brazilian World Cup Team but its release date is a few years too late, and besides, that covers several World Cups narrated by the knowing voice of John Motson. Whatever its name, remembering that VHS tape whips up a dream-like fog over my mind that was once a romantic haze, for it was a pure and joyous thing to own.

    They – the Brazilian side of 1970 - were the fabled greatest team that ever lived. They redefined football and how it was supposed to be, yet only the Gods could dare plagiarise them, for other mortals were just inadequate. That video was almost biblical in a football sense. To watch it was to be present at the opening of the Ark of the Covenant.

    What got me thinking about this lost treasure was the recent 76th birthday of Pelé; the spiritual leader of them all; goal scorer extraordinaire; genius; arguably the game’s greatest player; a 20th-century icon that transcended sport in the same that few others did – Muhammad Ali, Ayrton Senna, Jesse Owens. Less happily, I learned of the sad passing of that team’s captain Carlos Alberto from a heart attack aged 72. It was he, of course, that scored the fourth and final Brazil goal in the 1970 World Cup final in Mexico City; a low-flying missile that concluded what for many is the finest goal ever scored, coming as it did at the end of a glorious team move that demonstrated how easy and how poetic the game can be. If Brazil’s World Cup triumph of 1970 is football’s ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, then Carlos Alberto’s goal is the Creation of Adam.
    [​IMG]

    When recalling that incredible Seleção, the names just trip off the tongue – Pelé, Jairzinho, Rivelino, Carlos Alberto, Gerson – all heroes in eternity. Yet, one man – in my opinion – rarely receives the praise he deserves for his part in their success. He was a short, slight, waspish figure; graceful and lithe with the unshakeable balance of a gymnast. He oozed the kind of creativity we see these days in the likes of Andres Iniesta.

    He was Tostão.

    The native of Brazil’s sixth largest city Belo Horizonte began his professional career at just 15 in the early 1960s with América MG before a move to city rivals Cruzeiro soon after. While playing for Raposa his sheer volume of goals grabbed the attention of successive national team coaches from Vicente Feola to João Saldanha and finally the great Mário Zagallo. He was a regular pick for Brazil before his 20th birthday.

    What made his feats so impressive was that he was a player almost without a position, except for that which he himself decided on. Neither midfielder nor forward, wherever a pass needed making, a run needed embarking upon, or a shot needed converting, Tostão was invariably involved. He was both elusive and obvious – a hide and seek champion in plain sight.

    The debacle of Brazil’s 1966 World Cup campaign in England, where the holders and favourites were kicked and banged all over Goodison Park (where they played their only three games of the tournament), exposed them as over confident bordering on arrogant, complacent, and far beyond their peak of four years earlier in Chile.

    Returning home to widespread derision, the old guard was gradually dismantled in favour of a new vibrant side, one that would grow together and re-establish Brazil as the kings of international football at the 1970 World Cup held in Mexico. That would be easier said than done, though. England arrived at the tournament to defend their crown with a supposedly better squad than the one that won in 1966, even accounting for star man Bobby Charlton being the wrong side of 30 and supposedly on the wane. West Germany – with Franz Beckenbauer and Gerd Müller entering the prime of their careers – were a coming force, while the Italians were always strong contenders and had top class players from the ultra-competitive Serie A such as Luigi Riva, Sandro Mazzola and Giacinto Facchetti. However, at that point, no European side had ever captured the trophy outside its own continent, giving the reborn Brazilians a critical edge on what would be familiar conditions.

    By the time the competition began Tostão was still just 23 years old but had already won five consecutive Minas Gerais State Championships and a national title for Cruzeiro. He was on his way to scoring 249 goals in 378 appearances – a stunning return for someone not considered an out-and-out striker. He had become first choice in attack in the post-1966 rebuilding job (Tostão was in the squad and played one group game vs. Hungary) and was no longer considered by others – or himself – as Pelé’s understudy. Also crucial to Tostão’s elevation was Pelé’s decision to retire from international football after the overly aggressive treatment he had experienced in 1966, a decision he was persuaded to reconsider in 1969.

    That same year, Tostão’s football career was almost curtailed before he had the chance to go down in history as one of the game’s greats. In October – just eight months before the World Cup finals – a ball was hit with such force into his face that he suffered a detached retina; an injury that can, and does, cause severe visual impairment even after corrective surgery. Tostão’s vision was saved after two operations by a Miami-based ophthalmologist, Roberto Moura – himself Brazilian.

    Having missed eight months of football before the tournament just as he had become as important to the new Brazil as anyone - including the restored Pelé - the fear was that Tostão would be well short of his best even though Zagallo had enough faith in him to be part of the World Cup squad. As if to emphasise the coach’s belief that his playmaker would be key to Brazil’s chances of winning the Jules Rimet trophy for a third time, meaning they could keep it forever, Tostão was handed the number 9 shirt and started their opening group game with Czechoslovakia.

    That the Brazilians ran out comfortable 4-1 winners does not tell the whole story. Despite their obvious brilliance, they had their flaws and Czechoslovakia repeatedly preyed upon them, taking the lead in the game, and subsequently wasting several clear-cut chances to upset the favourites. It was a game made famous by a couple of moments of brilliance from Pelé; a beautifully taken goal laid on by a perfect Rivelino chipped pass and an audacious effort from inside his own half that drifted inches wide with the goalkeeper gazing helplessly skywards. Tostão’s contribution in the role as Pelé’s foil was obvious. He created space for himself to operate in but did the same for his partner, drawing the defenders’ attentions from him in a way that had been missing in the brutality of 1966.

    Also evident was the beefed-up stature of the Brazilian players compared to previous tournaments. They were determined not to be physically dominated again and added more pace and power to their game to complement their natural flair. Rivelino, Gerson and Pelé looked imposing; Carlos Alberto was the supreme athlete, surging back and forth along the right flank creating a template for Brazilian full backs for generations to come; Jairzinho prowled the front line with all the grace and agility of a black panther. The exception was Tostão. He was weedy and sickly-looking by comparison, yet his advantage came from his head. Knowing when and where to be bought him time and room to use his skill to as much effect as a Rivelino thunderbolt or a lung-bursting run by Carlos Alberto.

    The second match on Brazil’s schedule was the most pivotal of all. It came in searing daytime heat at the Estadio Jalisco in Guadalajara against holders England and was seen as the final in all but name. And it didn’t disappoint.

    Players, managers, goals take on mythical status but rarely do entire matches. This one was different and had it all. Colour TV live coverage beamed around the world may have added gravity to the occasion but is Gordon Banks’ save from Pelé’s towering far post header still not the benchmark by which all great saves are measured? Is Bobby Moore’s expertly executed last ditch tackle on a rampaging Jairzinho not also held up as the exemplar in the art of defending? The England captain called it the best international game he’d ever participated in; which, considering he appeared 108 times for his country and won a World Cup final, indicates just how monumental an encounter it was.


    Tostão’s involvement was vital to the game’s decisive moment. He fended off Alan Ball on the left wing before nutmegging Moore, pirouetting inside the box and lifting a perfect pass to Pelé’s feet. He then squared it to Jairzinho who hammered the ball into the net to settle matters. Ominously, Brazil – and especially their front three – were beginning to click.


    The score line in the third and final group game was a lot closer than it should have been – a 3-2 win over Romania. Tostão once again linked with the world’s most famous player, deftly backheeling a corner from the right into the six-yard box for Pelé to tuck away Brazil’s winning goal.

    Zagallo’s men faced fellow South Americans Peru – managed by two-time World Cup winner and Brazilian legend Didi – in the quarter-finals. June 14th, 1970, noon. Simultaneously, two classic games played out. Over in León, West Germany overturned a two-goal deficit and expelled the wilting English from a World Cup they were expected to at least reach the final of.

    As Bobby Charlton bowed out, Tostão took centre stage wreaking havoc in the channels between centre backs and full backs; first laying the ball off to Rivelino who drilled a trademarked drive past the keeper to give Brazil the lead. He then took advantage of slack concentration to ghost into the box from a short corner to squeeze a shot between keeper and post from an improbable angle to put Brazil firmly in the driving seat. Brazil’s weakest link – goalkeeper Felix – was beaten in an almost identical fashion soon after to give Peru a way back into the contest, only for Tostão to tap home his second after an assist from Pelé. The game eventually ended in a 4-2 win for Brazil, the left foot and subtlety of Tostão proving elemental in the victory.

    In the semi-final against Uruguay, Pelé was at it again; creating magic moments. And like the attempt on goal from his own half in the Czechoslovakia game, his genius went unrewarded as he threw the goalkeeper an outrageous dummy on the edge of the box before rounding him and directing his shot agonisingly wide. It’s these incidents that highlight just how special he was, but every Pelé needs his Tostão, just like every Messi needs his Iniesta. Tostão’s presence enabled Pelé to be Pelé, and the world should be eternally grateful for that.

    Uruguay took a surprise lead when Cubilla placed a timid shot past the leaden-footed Felix. In first half injury time, Tostão drifted to the left wing and received a pass from Clodoaldo. His return was curled exquisitely back into the path of Clodoaldo who sprung from deep and ran into the gaping hole Tostão had left in the Uruguayan defence with his intelligent movement. The defensive midfielder lashed a shot into the far corner of the net restoring parity and giving the Boys from Brazil the platform from which to show their class.

    Brazil got a head of steam up in the second half with the Pelé/Tostão axis dragging defenders to places they didn’t want to go. The inevitable happened thanks again to Tostão’s vision and ability to pick out the killer ball – this time to flying winger Jairzinho who latched onto another geometrically precise pass to use his scorching pace and slide home past the Uruguayan keeper. Jairzinho fell to his knees in celebration, the first man to congratulate him was the architect, Tostão.

    Despite some late nerves, Brazil completed the win with a Rivelino goal in the last minute, Tostão again pivotal in the breakaway. They had reached the final as the undoubted standout team at the competition despite obvious weaknesses in defence and, of course, with the much-maligned Felix in goal.

    Finally leaving Guadalajara, where they’d played all their games to date throughout the World Cup, they switched to the giant cauldron of the Azteca Stadium in Mexico City to face the resolutely professional Italians in front of 107,000 fans, with most neutrals seemingly placing themselves firmly on the side of the entertaining Brazilians.

    Both sides traded early blows with ‘El Rey Pelé’, as the BBC’s Kenneth Wolstenholme proclaimed him, soaring high in the air to power home a far post header from a Rivelino cross. Tostão’s input; a quick throw in and even quicker thinking.

    The Italians hit back through Roberto Boninsegna after the type of defensive calamity that had plagued the Brazilians throughout the tournament finally costing them dear. The Europeans continued to threaten but as the second half wore on, the strength-sapping effects of the extra time epic against West Germany began to tell as legs noticeably tired. Tostão continued to buzz around with gaps becoming increasingly available.

    Gerson’s left foot rocket put Brazil ahead again and the Italians visibly shrank inside their Savoy blue shirts. Jairzinho bundled home a third soon after to create a record of scoring in every round of the finals and then. And then…

    Tostão chased back into his own half to win the ball, still running and scheming despite the victory being seemingly in the bag. Short, snappy passes were exchanged in midfield before Clodoaldo danced and body swerved past four Italians. Rivelino took over, arrowing a pass down the line onto the boot of Jairzinho who then powered in-field. He gave it to Pelé who stood patiently as if waiting for the rest of the world to catch up with him. If you look carefully at the footage, Tostão - who had somehow made his way rapidly and undetected to the edge of Italy’s box while that famous move was playing out – was pointing to the flash of bright yellow charging up the right flank. It was captain Carlos Alberto.

    Pelé claims he never got a call from his skipper to play the ball to him – the simplest, yet the most perfect pass in football history – but his strike partner’s instruction would certainly have nudged Pelé’s ‘instinct’. Carlos Alberto arrived like an express train and met the ball – which popped up neatly off the bobbly playing surface – with his right foot, exploding through the contact to send the ball past the Italian goalkeeper. Tostão, always alert to possibilities in the box, hammers the ball gleefully back into the net and is the first to greet his elated teammate in his moment of glory.

    That fourth goal has gone down as arguably the most beautiful goal of all time and is certainly the most joyous and encapsulated everything that is synonymous with Brazilian football, even if the modern-day teams have struggled to live up to such unattainable standards. The team of 1970, of which Tostão was a fundamental, if sometimes undervalued component, was the culmination of a four-year cycle of development which restored the country’s aura of invincibility after the meek surrender of their crown in 1966.

    Soon after, the team slowly began to dismantle itself. Pelé, with nothing left to prove and money to be made, retired from the national team in 1971 aged just 31, and by the time the next World Cup came around in 1974, Brazil were a shadow of the team from just four years earlier. Tostão, too, failed to make the 1974 World Cup where he would still only have been 27 years old and at the peak of his powers. The vision problems caused by his detached retina injury in 1969 resurfaced just a year after his Brazilian record transfer from Cruzeiro to Vasco da Gama in 1972. His post-football life has been a combination of TV punditry and journalism work under his more recognised name and as a medical doctor under his own name, Eduardo Gonçalves de Andrade.

    He is still Cruzeiro’s leading goalscorer and is joint tenth on the list of all-time scorers for the Seleção behind some of the most remarkable players ever to have laced up a pair of boots. Voted number 53 in World Soccer Magazine’s Greatest 50 Players of the 20th Century, Tostão’s legacy in the game is assured even though he lived somewhat in the shadows of his more flamboyant compatriots. But without him, it’s debatable whether they would have shined to the same extent as they did during those sun-drenched summer afternoons in Mexico.
  5. Sep 10, 2018
    #5

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    both teams deserve to go through
  6. Sep 10, 2018
    #6

    harms Way Staff

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    Brilliant teams!
  7. Sep 10, 2018
    #7

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    Cheers lads!

    To address some of the points in question:

    1. It's a straight forward 4-2-3-1 with double pivot. Both Tigana and Breitner are great defensively and also possess quite a tactical acumen to handle player like Gullit. I don't think a player like Gullit needs a designated DM as well considering his more fluid nature. A double pivot and zonal marking will be IMO the better solution.
    Both Breitner and Tigana are used to handling some of the GOAT's and still contribute going forward so I don't think that would be an issue.

    2. Rivellino is a better player than Sindelar, much better in fact. He's pretty explosive and Monti will have all sorts of issues if he's to handle him alone. If we have the 1 on 1 option most of the time that would create an advantage in the center, that would IMO win us the game.

    3. Leo Junior and Kalle faced in couple of friendlies and as mentioned in Serie A Junior was midfielder and Kalle past his prime. Don't believe those h2h really hold water here.

    4. Marzolini is one of the best options IMO for a tricky winger. One of the very best defensive full backs and used to handling tricky and pacy wingers.

    5. Krol as you mentioned in the next point will have a lot of problems with Tostao, his movement and dropping back. Both your defenders will be pulled in uncomfortable for them spaces which will lead plenty of space for onrushing Rensenbrink and Kalle.

    6. I don't believe you should only look at Forster as a pure marker. He was one of Germany finest not only due to his man marking abilities. He, along with Kohler are the elite stoppers in the draft.
  8. Sep 10, 2018
    #8

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    On a side note I don't think Bergkamp's credentials as a lone forward are the same as Tostao. Bergkamp's game is much better starting from deep.

    Tostao on the other hand comes in his 1970 form where he was absolutely critical piece of the puzzle in Brazil's attack and much more fluent to the role both have in this game.
  9. Sep 10, 2018
    #9

    idmanager Banned

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    Love the use of Bergkamp there @2mufc0

    One of the very few setups where I would approve him as the lone striker.
  10. Sep 10, 2018
    #10

    Gio 6 times Redcafe Draft Winner

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    Two great teams - will be surprised if there is more than a ball hair between the pair of them.
  11. Sep 10, 2018
    #11

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    Good luck mate, having connectivity issues so haven't been able to post much.
  12. Sep 10, 2018
    #12

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    Don't agree with that, Bergkamp natural game was to interchange and move round to get the ball. And I wouldn't say you have a similar setup to that 1970 team, firstly Rivelino played LM in that team and secondly your 10 (Rivelino) is nothing like Pele. And Kalle was also a different type of player to Jairzinho.
  13. Sep 10, 2018
    #13

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers Scouse Lover

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    Monster midfield from 2mufc0, but feel Enigma has the extra goals.
  14. Sep 10, 2018
    #14

    Physiocrat Full Member

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    @Enigma_87 Did Breitner ever play as a DM? He was noted as goalscoring CM at his peak and was pretty attacking at LB
  15. Sep 10, 2018
    #15

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    He isn’t a DM mate. I’ve put him on the right to underline his partnership with Kalle. Tigana is the one with the more defensive functions.
  16. Sep 10, 2018
    #16

    Physiocrat Full Member

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    That makes more sense. It's just on the graphic he's deeper that Tigana
  17. Sep 10, 2018
    #17

    Indnyc Full Member

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    Such a difficult game to vote on.. I don’t think either deserves to lose..

    Love the midfield from @2mufc0 and the attack of @Enigma_87

    I almost don’t want to vote
  18. Sep 10, 2018
    #18

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    Feel this is very important point which is overlooked so far. We have Kalle, Rensenbrink, Tostao, even Rivellino and Breitner - all of whom will give you more than 20 goals per season in their respective position.

    Compared to the opposition this is a big advantage in front of goal which should tilt it in our favor in tight affair.
  19. Sep 10, 2018
    #19

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    Wanted to fill the gaps and spaces as much as possible mate and due to the names in the graphic he’s in a deeper position but that shouldn’t pin him down as such. He’s playing the same role that made that tandem with Kalle famous.
  20. Sep 10, 2018
    #20

    Don Alfredo Full Member

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    Do you have goal statistics per season for Rivelino? I only found his total goals per club, which showed him as a solid 1 in 3 scorer, same as his tally for Brazil.
  21. Sep 10, 2018
    #21

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    Not true at all. Career goals:

    Bergkamp - 238
    Keizer - 157
    Robben - 133
    Gullit - 192


    Plenty of goals in that front four.

    I also think we would dominate this midfield, you won't get much work rate out of Rivelino while Gullit is that all action midfielder, he will out work him and the extra man will make a difference.

    And like i said in the OP one of Tigana/Breitner will have to pick him up, this leaves plenty of holes to exploit.
  22. Sep 10, 2018
    #22

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    Actually i don't see Tigana and Breitner getting much support at all.
  23. Sep 10, 2018
    #23

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    Portrait of an icon: Dennis Bergkamp

    [​IMG]


    At his best, Bergkamp boasted a rare ability shared only by the game’s best players – the capacity to slow down the game around him. It was not mythical, either. The sense that Bergkamp had more time on the ball to produce moments of the sublime is not a trick of the mind, more an indication of his skill. Bergkamp’s touch and awareness combined to afford him an extra half-second ahead of almost every opponent. His technique exploited that time to the maximum. Zinedine Zidane was the master of this art.

    https://www.football365.com/news/portrait-of-a-legend-dennis-bergkamp

  24. Sep 10, 2018
    #24

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    Only the Ajax version of Bergkamp has scored more than 20 goals a season consecutive times, so it's either not the peak version of him that you are playing or those stats doesn't give a good picture of the actual output.

    Same - Gullit racked most of his numbers in Holland and his national goalscoring ratio is also 17 goals in 60 odd games. Robben isn't the most prolific winger either with only one season with 20 goals or more in all comps.

    To give a proper perspective:

    Kalle has scored in 5 consecutive seasons 20 goals or more in all comps.
    Rensenbrink in 6 consecutive seasons has scored 20 goals or more
    Tostao is probably the most prolific player on the pitch with 271 goals in 449 games and 32 in 54 in the national team.

    We have a lot more goals in our side.

    Also Tigana and Breitner are pretty dynamic duo and have plenty of support from Rivellino.

    Both Van Hanegem and Monti lack the dynamics and are pretty similar players in movement and covering the pitch.
  25. Sep 10, 2018
    #25

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    I’ll try to dig up more mate and get back to you. Still 141 goals return for his club side and 1 in three is solid return (around 15-20) goals per season if we take the average in mind.
  26. Sep 10, 2018
    #26

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    We aren't playing over a season though, those players are all capable of scoring at any given moment. It's not like I'm fielding defensive players in attack.

    Disagree about Monti he was a lot more physical and defensively astute than van Hanegem certainly not the same time of player.
  27. Sep 10, 2018
    #27

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    Actually I have the same feeling with Monti and van Hanegem. You need Gullit a lot closer to goal not to leave Bergkamp too isolated up front.

    Has he ever played consistently in such role?
  28. Sep 10, 2018
    #28

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    We’re looking at peaks tho, not overal contribution. In this case which Bergkamp version are you playing - the young Ajax one or the peak one?

    Monti and Hanegem are both on the static side you can’t deny that. There is something missing there if you want to take control and not someone like Neeskens there to chase the ball.
  29. Sep 10, 2018
    #29

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...is-monti-two-world-cup-finals-Italy-argentina

    Monti is actually what Enigma is missing in his team, i'm guessing Tigana is the one to sit back, you are leaving Breitner with a lot of work to do by himself in the midfield.
  30. Sep 10, 2018
    #30

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    I've never seen WVH described as above.
  31. Sep 10, 2018
    #31

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    Both Monti and van Hanegem relied on their positional sense in the defensive phase. Both are a bit like Carrick in that respect and are considered playmakers - Monti a deep one.

    Keizer is well known to not put a defensive shift in and if you keep Gullit engaged in the midfield battle you will lose a lot going forward and also isolate Bergkamp in a role that is not that familiar to him as a lone striker.
  32. Sep 10, 2018
    #32

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    Tigana is a player that has endless amount in stamina in him. That and Breitner are both very dynamic midfielders in contrast to van Hanegem and Monti who lack in that respect and also lack pace. We will outrun your midfield and as I said will not let you run the game in the same way you think mate.

    Also on Monti and his ability to cover the pitch:

    Also Rivellino is far from what you are describing him (not a great athlete). He was able to get past his marker with ease:

  33. Sep 10, 2018
    #33

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    Has he ever played as one tho? I like creative set ups but in a tight encounter I'd back Tostao being a lot more prolific in the role Bergkamp is set to play in. He also has much more sound credentials at it.
  34. Sep 10, 2018
    #34

    Gio 6 times Redcafe Draft Winner

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    Yes, it's a tasty arrangement. I don't subscribe to him having to play behind a centre-forward. He can of course as he did so well at Arsenal, but he was schooled in the land of 4-3-3 at Ajax. And as a result developed the hold-up play, back to goal presence and touch, as well as the pace to get behind defences (apparently one of the fastest in the squad at Highbury). With the right kind of partners you can see him in his element there.
  35. Sep 10, 2018
    #35

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    Lol come on Enigma, Rooney turned up overweight a few times in pre season, didn't mean he was a slow player. All the football writers have described him to the opposite of what you have.
  36. Sep 10, 2018
    #36

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    Still that is where he shined(as a second striker) and he spent his whole peak playing as one(second striker). Sure we can imagine him in a fantasy set up but he really didn't spend his peak there.

    By all accounts and also with the era in mind I've never read Monti being a particularly dynamic or fast player. I'd gladly be proven wrong if you have different info on him.
  37. Sep 10, 2018
    #37

    Gio 6 times Redcafe Draft Winner

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    I take that because he was superb - particularly early on - at Arsenal. Still, he shined as the central striker in a 4-3-3. Banged in around 30 goals a season from 1990-1993, three times top scorer in the Eridivise, top scorer at Euro '92, played well at USA '94 in the middle of Overmars and Roy / Van Vossen - scoring twice in his two knockout games. For me was a brilliant 9.5 and a brilliant rounded 9. It's only latterly in his career, once he got into his 30s and had lost a little physical edge and pace, that he was clearly better suited to the hole behind a striker. And sometimes I suspect that colours our memories of him more than the first half of his career.

    In the modern game where the template of the centre forward is to excel both back to goal and attacking the goal, and if you're really lucky to have the skill and vision to thread in wide runners, then he'd be perfect in that gig in an attack-minded 4-3-3. There's nothing in his game to suggest that he wouldn't play well in that role that 2mufc0 has deployed him in.
  38. Sep 10, 2018
    #38

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    He’s still a different player in his Arsenal days compared to his Ajax days - he himself said he adjusted his game. You can’t always have it all with players like Bergkamp and Scholes.

    I guess in this sense 2mufc0 is using the young Bergkamp not the peak one.
  39. Sep 10, 2018
    #39

    oneniltothearsenal Arse Lover Scout

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    While the difference might not be as stark as say Schuster or Scholes, I think its fair to say Bergkamp had two relative career peaks in slightly different roles. Early Bergkamp 92-94 was great at leading the line as the sole CF for both Ajax and Holland. Thing is Bergkamp if you watch some of his Ajax and Holland matches during this time, you see that he always had that insane level of technique. He just used it differently in 93-94 than 00-02. So its not like he developed technique he didn't have. He was using technique and pace to finish plays whereas in 02-04 for instance, his pace was lower so he used his technique to set up passes more. It was just used in a different sense since he had more pace when he was younger.

    The key here is despite the perception now, 93-94 Bergkamp wasn't really inferior to 99-02 Bergkamp. He was 3rd in the Ballon in 1992 and 2nd in 1993.

    This draft reminded me of the key player draft that highlighted some players I think get underrated even among us nostalgic drafters. Bergkamp, Elkjaer both I think have their breadth of skills a bit stunted when discussed in drafts. Bergkamp had some amazing goals leading the line like his goal against Brazil in 1994 World Cup (apparently I can't make a gif because FIFA blocked it but match highlights below)




    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  40. Sep 10, 2018
    #40

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    @oneniltothearsenal

    I understand where you are coming from mate, but this is Bergkamp in his own words:

    from the official website:
    https://www.Arsenal.com/news/features/20150619/bergkamp-in-his-own-words