Roulette Draft - Round 1 - Harms/Sjor vs. Moby/Red Viper

Discussion in 'Draft Games Forum' started by Indnyc, Sep 12, 2018.

?

Who will win this match

Poll closed Thursday at 15:07.
  1. Team Harms/Sjor

    35.0%
  2. Team Moby/TRV

    65.0%
  1. Sep 12, 2018
    #1

    Indnyc Full Member

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    Harms/Sjor vs. Moby/TRV

    [​IMG]Vs.[​IMG]

    Tactics Harms/Sjor

    The inspiration behind this side is Pep's City of last season — mainly the proactive approach, directness and an unorthodox use of fullbacks. We thought that this concept will allow us to highlight some of the lesser-known players as well as using others in the unusual roles that we think they'll excel at.

    Tactics.
    The basic formation City employ does not provide anything spectacular. It is instead a rather customary shape which you can find across all professional leagues in Europe. The details, however, carry Guardiola’s thumbprint. The key battle would be in midfield, where we would have an advantage in numbers (thanks to false fullbacks), workrate and even head-to-head records (Litmanen being a proven nuisance to Redondo is the obvious example).

    We'll expand on the tactics and personal roles in the write up and later in the thread, so here's a few basics
    • High defensive line — our defence is well-suited to it (especially Koeman, who was the master of it)
    • Guardiola has instilled into his players a playing style that values “possession with a meaning”, or how each pass has an underlying intention of opening up spaces or moving around opponents. This is not Tiki-Taka, or possession for the sake of having the ball, but rather moving the ball to move the opponent
    • Intense pressing. This is potentially Moby/TRV's weakest point — his back 3 and a keeper are far from great on the ball in the all-time context, and our pressing will definitely cause some issues. It also gives us an advantage — both teams are built to take control of the game and I believe that ours is more likely to do so
    • Our fullbacks are comfortable in a narrow defensive formation, which will help with a more central threat from 3-5-2
    False fullbacks.
    It is something that Pep experimented with at Bayern as well, but the use of false fullbacks at City was a little bit more nuanced. From the very beginning we wanted Zanetti (with his experience as a RB/RWB/RM/CM — and that's not even counting the left wing) and Netto for those roles. I'll make a more detailed post about Netto, but he's really the perfect man with his unique skillset (played all over the wing before settling as a left-sided center mid) and a Guardiola-esque view of football.

    Like with Delph and Walker, Netto and Zanetti won't be playing mirrored roles — and while both are well-capable of playing as false as well as traditional fullbacks, Netto will more often join the midfield while Zanetti will mostly provide overlaps for the attacking runs of Eto'o. Both of them possessed incredible intelligence and understanding of the game, which will help them decide on what to do at any given moment.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Key roles.
    • Ronald Koeman is the ultimate playmaking defender who excelled in high line and played with much needed directness (not that tiki-taka crap) — he was really a must for our team despite his reputation as a defensive liability. After all, the man won 2 European Cups with 2 different clubs and the Euros as well, playing in some of the most gung-ho defensive set ups in history
    • Andrés Iniesta and Jari Litmanen. They are the fulcrum of our team (Iniesta and Pep are a fantastic and proven combo and Litmanen was the star of LVG's Ajax — one of the teams that inspired Guardiola the most). Everything in Pep's system is set up to provide his 8's with the most freedom — it's not surprising that De Bruyne and Silva were the best players of that star-studded side. Fullbacks are joining the midfield to free them from defensive responsibility, as well as providing quality transition from the defense (with the help of Koeman, Basti and Yashin). The wingers and the center forward are stretching the pitch horizontally and vertically to create pockets of space for Iniesta and Litmanen to go to
    • Bastian Schweinsteiger. The most complete midfielder of his generation, Basti excelled in multiple philosophies, but his unique blend of physicality, mentality, tactical and spatial awareness and top-notch passing game makes him a perfect fit. His MotM performance in the 2014 WC final is the golden standard for this role.
    • Samuel Eto'o. The man had won 2 trebles in a row performing in completely different roles, so we had to secure him early. Here we are replicating his role from Mourinho's Inter, where he moved outwide to support for Milito centrally — providing graft, positional intelligence and pressing ability as well as his devastating pace, goalscoring and creativity. Zanetti is ready to cover for him when he cuts in
    Bonus.

    Jari Litmanen's monstrous performance against a midfield featuring Fernando Redondo and Michael Laudrup. Litmanen, nominally playing as a number 10, was marking Redondo out of the game, significantly limiting the speed of Madrid's transitions. While doing all that he managed to score 2 goals (1 was wrongly disallowed). Then Real Madrid coach Jorge Valdano after the game commented: “Ajax aren’t just the team of the 90’s, they’re approaching football utopia.”



    Tactics Moby/TRV

    Formation: 5-3-2

    Goal is marshalled by Albertosi, one of Italy's greatest ever Keepers. Solid defence with Picchi sweeping flanked by 2 solid stoppers in Stam and Walter Samuel. Nilton and Kaltz will provide the width.

    Redondo/Zito will orchester the game from the deep. A complementary pairing to get the best out of both of them.

    Laudrup will be the main playmaker. Rivaldo will have a free roaming role with Shevchenko leading the line. Laudrup's ability to play deeper will ensure there is no overlaps with Rivaldo.
  2. Sep 12, 2018
    #2

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers Scouse Lover

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  3. Sep 12, 2018
    #3

    Indnyc Full Member

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  4. Sep 12, 2018
    #4

    MJJ Full Member

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    A homage to a city side? Ewww.
  5. Sep 12, 2018
    #5

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers Scouse Lover

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    This. Replace Finney with Tevez and it's entirely pukeworthy. Anybody who votes for harms/sjor is a massive false red. :nervous:
  6. Sep 12, 2018
    #6

    harms Way Staff

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    [​IMG]
  7. Sep 12, 2018
    #7

    Jim Beam Full Member

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    :lol:
  8. Sep 12, 2018
    #8

    MJJ Full Member

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    :lol:
  9. Sep 12, 2018
    #9

    harms Way Staff

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    A few bits on my players and their suitability to the system.

    Haven't had the time to make a proper Netto profile, but he's pretty much the perfect Guardiola player. His Spartak was well-known as a side that played possession football with the preference of short/middle passing and constant movement (when Wolves played with Spartak even the British commentator said that this is a battle between two philosophies — a direct long ball tactics from the English side and a more passing-oriented from the Moscow team)

    Really reminds me of Pep and his obsessions with zones.

    Netto facing the newly crowned world champions — West Germany


    Netto's performance in the 1960 European Championships final


    Netto's other teammates about him and his playing style.

    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
  10. Sep 12, 2018
    #10

    Moby Dick who hates the homeless

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    What the hell is that writeup and graphic for our team.

    Can you restart the game wjen TRV submits our write up? Harms himself was busy till Tuesday. It's wednesday and it's been decided that our team will be taken over?

    Unacceptable. Everyone puts in equal effort to get these games done so at least be a little sensible especially when TRV updated that he was gonna submit it soon.

    You already know the circumstances, this wasn't delayed out of laziness. I had to leave due to a major surgery and half my body isn't mobile right now. Finding a replacement and giving him time out of his schedule to get into this would obviously take some time.

    Sorry but that's pretty disappointing and awful move by the mods.
  11. Sep 12, 2018
    #11

    harms Way Staff

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    I have no problems with restarting the game, obviously.
  12. Sep 12, 2018
    #12

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers Scouse Lover

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    TRV did not need to wait for harms to submit his writeup? The match draw was made well in advance and dates were agreed on Friday. I reckon enough timings (last pick was made by TRV last Thu making it nearly 1 full week) was provided to submit a proper write-up. @Indnyc made it clear that we wanted to start reinforcements on Thu and we waited till last moment to start the match.

    Happy to restart the match, but your team should make sure you don't delay the draft beyond reasonable time.
  13. Sep 12, 2018
    #13

    harms Way Staff

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    We've already shared Jari Litmanen's sublime performance against Fernando Redondo, where he basically played as his man-marker (a role akin to Park handling Pirlo) and still managed to score 2 goals (1 was wrongly disallowed) — it's in the OP.

    So, a few bits on him and the system/Guardiola etc.

    Van Gaal’s Ajax side was as utilitarian as it was stylish – this was not death by a thousand cuts, it was snarling, in your face football. Jari Litmanen was a key component of this philosophy. The team trumped all others and there was no room for the roaming nomad. Each player had their role, and they were expected to sacrifice themselves for the team.

    Ajax’s number 10 had a unique role, offering the first line of defence by pressing the back line and midfield. Dutch football writers Kormelink and Seeverens believed that Litmanen “had to set an example by pursuing his opponent”. It meant that Jari’s abilities were, at first, somewhat stifled due to his defensive duties.

    Litmanen’s purple patch, as well as Ajax’s, would continue into the 1995-96 season. The hangover was non-existent; van Gaal wouldn’t allow such unprofessionalism. Litmanen’s form was especially inspiring as he morphed into one of the games most deadly playmakers. A tenacious, quick-witted goalscorer with an eye for a pass, he was the perfect number 10. More importantly, his reputation in Amsterdam was growing, and the fans took to calling him ‘Merlin’ due to his unfathomable ability to drift between tackles.

    The season would follow a very similar pattern to the last: Ajax would win the league and reach the Champions League final, however, this time, fate was not on Jari’s side. They would meet Italian opposition yet again but they couldn’t upset the odds, losing the final on penalties to Marcello Lippi’s Juventus.

    Litmanen would end the tournament as top scorer with nine crucial goals, including one in the final. While it may have seemed like scant consolation at the time, he also finished third in the voting for the Ballon d’Or as he personal game reached its zenith.

    P.S. 2 ways to success — graft vs genius

  14. Sep 12, 2018
    #14

    Moby Dick who hates the homeless

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    Sorry for not letting your reinforcements on Thursday as previously decided, can't thank you enough on showing so much support and understanding right now.

    TRV wasn't a part of the draft till few days back and agreed to take time out to take this forward. But it's okay. Carry on with the draft. Real class act.
  15. Sep 12, 2018
    #15

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers Scouse Lover

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    TRV took over last Thu (a week before, when he made the last pick). Surely it is sufficient for anyone to put up a formation/write-up? I'm not being really unreasonable here.

    Anyway let him submit today and I'll restart.
  16. Sep 12, 2018
    #16

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers Scouse Lover

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  17. Sep 12, 2018
    #17

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    I quite like Moby's fake team.
  18. Sep 12, 2018
    #18

    Moby Dick who hates the homeless

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    Spoke to TRV he is out of town as well .

    Harms wins this game .
  19. Sep 12, 2018
    #19

    Indnyc Full Member

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    Think we should continue this game and let voters decide the outcome? I quite like Moby's team as well.. Looks great and very well balanced.. Only questions in Santos is a good fit as a wing back
  20. Sep 12, 2018
    #20

    idmanager Full Member

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    Finney and Etoo should be on opposite sides for me. Great idea nevertheless
  21. Sep 12, 2018
    #21

    harms Way Staff

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    I'm okay either way, but let me know because I'm going to post more about a few players if this is an active game.
  22. Sep 12, 2018
    #22

    harms Way Staff

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    Had Eto'o played much on the left?
  23. Sep 12, 2018
    #23

    idmanager Full Member

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    Yes, a lot for Mourinho at Inter.

    Whenever they had to protect a lead, it was Sneijder up top, Etoo bursting from the left flank and I think Pandev from right.

    The best example of course being that Barcelona game where they were down to 10.

    Quite natural from the left for me and I think Guardiola's system suits the inverted wingers more like Sane.
  24. Sep 12, 2018
    #24

    Indnyc Full Member

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    Yeah let it continue and treat it as an active game. I feel bad for Moby but with TRV also out of town we can't delay it further
  25. Sep 12, 2018
    #25

    harms Way Staff

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    I think that the midfield battle is going my way (the explanation below), which will obviously lead to more chances — and my defense is comfortable with a high line and can narrow the space to contain Moby's central-oriented attack.

    • Iniesta/Litmanen/Schweiny vs Laudrup/Redondo/Zito is a pretty much even battle — depends on how you rate those players. What is hardly arguable though is that my side has more workrate — Iniesta worked fantastically in a high-pressing system at Barca, Litmanen had a unique role, offering the first line of defence by pressing the back line and midfield (and he has proven to be a pain in Redondo's arse in the real life) and Schweiny is Schweiny, in this role he made Lionel Messi irrelevant in the biggest game of his life. Laudrup is amazing, but Messi was better — and Schweiny didn't care
    • But then I have false fullback Netto joining midfield, Zanetti can overload the middle and the rest of my backline are comfortable stepping forward and keeping the high line (more on Wright's suitability — later)
    • Unlike the most 3-5-2 Moby doesn't have a center back who is comfortable at joining midfield (Picchi was a catenaccio's sweeper who stayed behind the defensive line as a last barrier and not a libero)
    • More so, none of Moby's centerbacks are good enough on the ball to consistently sustain an active pressing, which will hurt his transitions and, eventually, chances of controlling the game — and Wright is one of the best choices to deal with long balls forward, his heading and reading of the game were second to none
    If you have time, take a look at the compilation that @Šjor Bepo made for this draft — and try to count the amount of times where he intercepted a long ball from the keeper or defender:
  26. Sep 12, 2018
    #26

    harms Way Staff

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    Mostly remember him on the right at Inter but fair enough, I hadn't seen that much of their games. The idea behind Finney/Eto'o's positioning is clear, with Netto joining midfield more we need someone who can play as an orthodox winger (hence Finney), and on the right with Zanetti bombing forward we are quite happy with Eto'o cutting in.
  27. Sep 12, 2018
    #27

    harms Way Staff

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    And obviously, the keepers shouldn't be underestimated, although they always are. We have a keeper that would get into the most people's all-time XI — don't want to begin the GOAT debate, but he'll definitely be in consideration for that title, on the other hand the opposition has Albertosi.

    Even if for the sheer fear factor — remember even Mazzola's penalty, for example — he said that Yashin had hypnotized him and, when started running, Yashin's hands seemed to be everywhere while the goal suddenly became much smaller. I like the story that the first time that Streltsov made his (now trademark) backheel pass was against Yashin's Dynamo — they were desperate because Yashin saved every normal shot, so they had to improvise.



    Not to mention that Yashin's distribution was fantastic and not only he dominated the penalty box, he was one of the first sweeper-keepers and one of a few players that doesn't look outdated when you watch this 50's/60's footage.
  28. Sep 12, 2018
    #28

    MJJ Full Member

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    o
    Etoo stronger foot was his right one though, dontd think he will be that effective cuttingcin on his left foot.
  29. Sep 12, 2018
    #29

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    Yeah, Kylian Mbappe has the same problem and i reckon thats why he struggles on the right.
  30. Sep 12, 2018
    #30

    MJJ Full Member

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    Mbappe is very two footed, is etoo similar?
  31. Sep 12, 2018
    #31

    MJJ Full Member

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    Messi played for a dysfunctional Argentina side and don't forget that he plays significantly worse for Argentina.
  32. Sep 12, 2018
    #32

    harms Way Staff

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    I don't have time to make a compilation but this is a great example of Eto'o playing on the right — against arguably the greatest side of all time, no less. Dangerous crossing, incisive runs, involved in most dangerous attacks
  33. Sep 12, 2018
    #33

    Theon Full Member

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    Think this is harsh on Moby given the circumstances. I think he arguably drafted the best team in round 1 and deserves to be presented better.
  34. Sep 12, 2018
    #34

    Jim Beam Full Member

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    Sorry to spoil the fun, but pretty pointless match imo. We assume Moby will get in that line-up, he will try to win possession battle (instead of trying to maybe soak the pressure and get harms/sjor on the counter) and so on, and so on...

    Love the idea from harms and sjor, but can't vote here.
  35. Sep 12, 2018
    #35

    idmanager Full Member

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    :lol:

    Even Salah plays on the right while hardly cutting in. But the system is very different and the role suites them there just like it does for Mbappe too. Think Firimino or Griezmann dropping and suddenly Salah or Mbappe being most advanced. Its also a trait of direct teams where such players excel.

    In a Guardiola esque possesion system, with Etoo being expected to cut in which already is different from how Mbappe or Salah function, its not the same thing at all.

    Also not sure why a orthodox winger is needed. Wingers in Pep systems are there to stretch the pitch. They are not expected after that to act like orthodox wingers and ping balls in. Even from wide areas, they are expected to do what their teammates are doing at the centre of the pitch. Penetrate with pure skill and quick passing. So as long as they can drift outwide, it should be alright for me. Dont have to be on their orthodox sides. At least that is how I see Pep teams
  36. Sep 12, 2018
    #36

    MJJ Full Member

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    Fair enough, my (obviously wrong) memory of that season was that etoo was playing on the left and swapping with milito.
  37. Sep 12, 2018
    #37

    MJJ Full Member

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    Tbf there isnt a lot more you can do, moby unfortunately had a surgery and his replacement AM went AWOL.
  38. Sep 12, 2018
    #38

    Theon Full Member

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    Well I’d delay the game given he’s still retaining an interest (only a day or so for him to mock something up or get a new AM - not indefinitely). The obsession some people have to plough through these things as quickly as possible regardless of real life events is crazy imo.

    He’s had to go in for surgery which sounds quite serious. Just seems to lack any understanding imo.
  39. Sep 12, 2018
    #39

    MJJ Full Member

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    TRV was chosen as an AM more than a week ago though, after a certain point you do need to get a move on otherwise the whole thing gets unnecessarily delayed and wednesday was chosen at TRV's request.
  40. Sep 12, 2018
    #40

    harms Way Staff

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    And, of course, Ronald Koeman — probably the best and the most direct passer from the back of all-times (alongside Beckenbauer, but he was more lenient and preferred to bring the ball forward himself) will try to find my rapid front trio with his passes.

    Moby's defensive line is unlikely to push forward, with Picchi as an old-school sweeper at the base of the back



    Stan Mortensen (nicknamed "Electric heels" for his speed):

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