Roy Hodgson | Appointed England Manager

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by MacMUFC, Sep 18, 2010.

  1. Oct 3, 2010

    peterstorey Specialist In Failure

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    No, that's the whole fecking point with the players they've got it should be top 4 or a very near miss.
  2. Oct 3, 2010

    OneUnited24 Full Member

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    I think this is what people are forgetting, Roy has had to put his own ideas and own methods into this team which had been adapted to play the way Rafa sets his team out - he had been there for 5 seasons breaking the habit must be hard and its only been 7 games. To overcome that along with the obious lack of real quality in the side it would be a mission for any manager.

    I think a lot of Roys problems stem from the squad and not really knowing where the best position for the players is and then trying to adapt the formation so he has as many of the quality players in even if they are played out of position
  3. Oct 3, 2010

    redman5 Full Member

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    Over a quarter of today's starting line-up were Hodgson's signings. & if Konchesky was fit, I dare say he'd have made into the side.

    Roy Hodgson claims he is well respected throughout europe because his 'methods' have worked at places like Halmstad & Neuchatel Xamax. Can't understand why Inter didn't go for him instead of Benitez.

    Makes you wonder doesn't it ?
  4. Oct 3, 2010

    alastair ignorant

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    Well, I may not be Einstein, but if I wasn't sure where my players' best positions were, I wouldn't mess them about too much. Yet Roy signs a centre-midfielder and sticks him on the left, whilst taking Gerrard away from his role behind Torres which worked brilliantly for them. It's utterly baffling.
  5. Oct 3, 2010

    peterstorey Specialist In Failure

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    Yeah, the ManU crew were all saying what a great choice it was for Liverpool but when I asked them if they'd want him to follow Ferguson they all shut up.
  6. Oct 3, 2010

    Kraftwerker Formerly RedAddict

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    There may have been an effort to balance the books, but there was also over £70m outlayed on players after Torres. To not make a single decent transfer amongst that is criminal. And helps explain why Liverpool are in such bad shape now, both financially and on the pitch.

    Well it is Rafa's team, so that's why people say it. Just as the CL winning team was largely Houllier's team. It's fair to say Rafa was left with the better set-up (top four, in the CL, solid at the back etc), and was in a better position to succeed.

    Two for starters:

    BBC SPORT | Football | FA Cup | Burnley 1-0 Liverpool

    BBC SPORT | Football | FA Cup | Liverpool 1-2 Barnsley
  7. Oct 3, 2010

    Boss Melodramatic, attention seeking space-attacker

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    Manchester United*

    but yes, there was alot of people saying he's a step up from the clueless Rafa and Liverpool would push on

    they all look like real idiots right now
  8. Oct 3, 2010

    Kraftwerker Formerly RedAddict

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    Benitez is a better manager than Hodgson, at least for a team like Liverpool.

    But does that mean we should blame everything happening now on Roy, simply because Rafa is a better manager than him?

    Certainly not.

    No reply to my point about you blaming the 'mess' Houllier left for Rafa's inability to do better with his transfer funds?
  9. Oct 3, 2010

    peterstorey Specialist In Failure

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    Real oppo fans say ManU, you even used to when you tacked curtains on to your baggy jeans, and the media are at it now.
  10. Oct 3, 2010

    alastair ignorant

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    Point conceded on the cup exits.

    The net outlay after Torres' signing was less than £40m, in reality.

    The side Benitez left Hodgon was infinitely better than the one Houllier left Benitez. Do you not agree?
  11. Oct 3, 2010

    Devilton Banned

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    I just saw Roy Hodgson in the car 20minutes ago, he was doing about 140mph the wrong way up a one way street with a can of beer in his hand, smoking a spliff and beeping his horn......That fecker will do anything for 3 points these days

    :lol:
  12. Oct 3, 2010

    Lance Uppercut Loves turn based games

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  13. Oct 3, 2010

    decorativeed Full Member

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    Top of my head:

  14. Oct 3, 2010

    Red Dreams Full Member

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    why should someone who is good enough for Liverpool be good enough for United.

    btw Maurinho is too good for Arsenal.
  15. Oct 3, 2010

    OneUnited24 Full Member

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    Well would you rather have Kuyt on the wing or stick Babel there? Gerrard even when Rafa was there used to say that "everyone knows my best position is in the middle" so Roy put him there and put Cole as a SS behind Torres but their understanding hasnt developed due to Coles suspension and Torres form. So he decided to move Cole out wide and play that £11m man behind Torres just so he can have Gerrard in a position where they will have some quality in the center of the park.

    With Rafa he purely relied on the break and using Torres/Gerrard for it and sure that was successful but Roy has different ideas and if im being honest if it works they will look a lot better then they did under Rafa - which is what Roy is trying to do but is hindered by a lack of quality in the squad
  16. Oct 3, 2010

    Kraftwerker Formerly RedAddict

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    The net outlay is irrelevant for this point. To spend over £70m and not pick up a single quality signing is absolutely abysmal, regardless of what went out the other way.

    I don't agree. I think the side Houllier left was unspectacular but solid, they played as a team, were mentally strong, and were equipped to do well in cup competitions.

    The current side is mentally weak, woeful at the back, and whilst it has better attacking talent on paper, they're so bereft of confidence and spirit, and crocked in Torres' case, that it just doesn't help hide other deficiencies.
  17. Oct 3, 2010

    Boss Melodramatic, attention seeking space-attacker

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    How so?? although Rafa has signed alot of bollocks, that's nonsense

    Which poster said Rafa left Roy with 0 money despite Roy buying tripe like Poulson
  18. Oct 3, 2010

    alastair ignorant

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    No. They spent £83m in 5 seasons, net. Much less than United, Chelsea, Spurs, Villa etc.

    The side Houllier left was equipped for cup competitions, yes, but there's one thing being a decent cup side and taking the team to win in Istanbul. I would argue that's one of the greatest managerial achievements in the last ten years.

    The confidence and spirit has been caused by Hodgson. There is always a bit of a bounce with a new manager's arrival, but not with Hodgson.
  19. Oct 3, 2010

    Boss Melodramatic, attention seeking space-attacker

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    indeed, Torres and Gerrard seemed to be convinced of good things to come....
  20. Oct 3, 2010

    Kraftwerker Formerly RedAddict

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    Net spend is a relevant argument, of course. But my point is he spent £70m on bringing in players after Torres, and failed to make one great signing. Just because he brought in money at the same time, doesn't excuse not making a single good signing with that £70m.

    FWIW, it's worth Rafa spent £104m net in his time at Liverpool, which was the most spent by any manager outside Chelsea or Man City.
  21. Oct 3, 2010

    alastair ignorant

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    What are your sources for that? Because it's £83m in my book. And I'll argue that Aquilani would have turned into a decent signing, had Hodgson kept him.
  22. Oct 3, 2010

    peterstorey Specialist In Failure

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    Exactly, their's lasted about 45 minutes after they got a goal against the run of play v Arsenal.
  23. Oct 3, 2010

    OneUnited24 Full Member

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    Had nothing to do with being down to 10 men then?
  24. Oct 3, 2010

    Kraftwerker Formerly RedAddict

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    Transfer League Managers Table | League Tables

    Here's the raw data if you want to see the working:

    Liverpool Transfers | Premiership Transfers

    Arguing that Aquilani would've turned into a decent signing is a pretty speculative pointless argument. He was a poor signing who didn't work out, same way Veron was a poor signing who didn't work out for us.

    Benitez tried to justify the fee at the time by claiming they got him on the cheap because of his injury problems. So clearly even he knew he was a crock. Utterly deluded.
  25. Oct 3, 2010

    peterstorey Specialist In Failure

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    What are you saying? That their only 45 mins of spunk was down to being reduced to 10-men rather than the 'new manager syndrome'?
  26. Oct 3, 2010

    alastair ignorant

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    Well I'll check my sources at some later point.

    And you're right, my argument is pretty speculative on Aquilani. I was encouraged by his play at the end of last season, and in a side so lacking in creativity, I think he would have been useful. But as I say, I can't back that up at all.
  27. Oct 3, 2010

    redman5 Full Member

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    In answer to your earlier question re the differing attitudes amongst Liverpool supporters in respect to the departures of Houllier & Benitez:

    Houllier's decline was 2 seasons in the making. After finishing 2nd in 2002 with 80 points. The following season saw us end the season in 5th place with 64 points. A lot of fans saw this as a blip. But even though we finished in 4th spot in 2004, our lowly points total of 60 was a strong indicator that the Frenchman didn't have it him to turn things around - During Houllier's reign, we'd watched Benitez's Valencia outplay us on 3 occasions. So when the opportunity came to replace GH with someone of the calibre of Rafa, a 2 times winner of La Liga. I think it's fair to say we were pretty chuffed.

    If you could graph the performances of both managers, you'd see that Houlliers was a peak in 2001/2002, followed by a fairly steady fall the following 2 years. Benitez, on the other hand, is more of a peak & trough situation. There was nothing to suggest that he couldn't put right the disappointing season we'd encountered in 2010. Having Torres out for nearly half a season was a mitigating reason for us not performing to the level we'd hoped. Houllier never really suffered any major injury problems to key players during those final 2 years, he just seemed to lose his way.

    Rafa Benitez is a much better manager than Hodgson. He's also superior to Gerard Houllier. He's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But if you were to ask most Liverpool fans, even the ones who initially wanted him out. Would you take him back right now ?. I think even you know it would be a resounding yes. Because for all his faults, there ain't many better managers available right now.
  28. Oct 3, 2010

    Kraftwerker Formerly RedAddict

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    It's fair enough to speculate on what he might have become, but I think what we can conclude is that Aquilani was not a great post-Torres signing for Liverpool in terms of his impact on the team, which was my point. And if Benitez knew of his injury problems (as seems evident by his attempts to downplay the fee), then it looks like even more of a gaffe.

    The same way, most would agree that Fergie made a bit of a gaffe in signing Hargreaves, though at least we got one productive season out of him, which can't be said of Aquilani.
  29. Oct 3, 2010

    peterstorey Specialist In Failure

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    Benitez is a proven top 10 CL team level manager. Hodgson is a midtable nice chap.
  30. Oct 3, 2010

    Kraftwerker Formerly RedAddict

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    There's nothing to suggest he could've put it right either.

    My point is Houllier left a better team than Rafa left, so if you're going to point the finger at Houllier for Rafa's failings, then you have to be prepared to do the same for Rafa and Roy.

    Teams are built from the back, and in that respect, Houllier's team was pretty solid. They were actually a team as well. The current side don't look like a team, and haven't done for months and months. They're a shambles at the back, so there's not much of a base to build on.

    Roy has an unenviable task tidying up that mess, but no doubt about it, he's making it more difficult for himself, because he's limited in his own ability.
  31. Oct 3, 2010

    Alex Banned

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    I agree with that assesment, actually Benitez would be a better coach if he wasnt such a stubborn bastard, am I right in saying just about every player including the captain disliked him at Liverpool, that isnt how you get the best out of your players. SUre some players will hate you but the whole team, I think if the latter is true, the problem lies with teh manager or waiter as it may be
  32. Oct 3, 2010

    decorativeed Full Member

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    Obvious bollocks.

    Funnily enough, as much as Rafa's spending is worthy of mockery, he actually broke even on his transfers post-Torres. He basically shuffled his pack, unloaded lot of players and replaced them with largely inferior ones:

  33. Oct 3, 2010

    Rowem Full Member

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    I thought Roy might steady the ship at Liverpool but his tactics have been pretty gash. Long ball stuff and nobody in midfield to control possession is what I'm hearing from pundits and Liverpool fans. So I'm not sure why they bought Poulsen. Spammy derided me in the summer for suggesting Danny Murphy as a decent stop gap option in CM - surely he'd have been better than signing Poulsen who is an older, crapper version of Lucas.
  34. Oct 3, 2010

    Red Dreams Full Member

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    probably on par with that clown at Hull who sat his players on the field in as far as man management is concerned.

    quite funny to see the gooners consoling the scousers btw. ;)
  35. Oct 3, 2010

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

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    I'm running out of ways to defend Roy.
  36. Oct 3, 2010

    Red Dreams Full Member

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    Fergie's agent is making it difficult ain't he?
  37. Oct 3, 2010

    Boss Melodramatic, attention seeking space-attacker

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    that's because shit tactics can't be defended
  38. Oct 3, 2010

    OneUnited24 Full Member

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    Sorry i thought you meant that they were rubbish for 45 minutes
  39. Oct 3, 2010

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

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    If he loses that tie embarrassingly he will be sacked and replaced with Dalglish.
  40. Oct 3, 2010

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

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    :lol:

    The wanted him because 1)he will give them a genuine chance of retaining the champions league. 2) Latin football suits his tactic best.

    Bullshit. The Inter job and the Liveprool job cant be compared at all. At Liverpool he had a chance to build a competitive team and fecked up miserably. At Inter he is expected to just maintain a wining team.

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