Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by royboy16, Jun 13, 2017.
You got proof to back up that big fecking gob of yours?
The funniest thing about this thread is that if you watch any interview of past players Keano is the person they all speak extremely highly of. Ole, Giggsy, Scholsey, Beckham, Phil Neville, Andy Cole, Dwight Yorke, RvN have all said publically that Keano would be #1 pick in their team every day of the week. And you can see the admiration the have for the man and his approach. Giggsey said he treated every training session like a cup final and was the most consistent player he ever saw. Scholesey said "he was the manager on the pitch, he knew how to get the best out of you". Not exactly what you expect people to say about the school yard bully...
I think Keano is the personification of Man Utds success as far as the press are concerned. They love to focus on any bad press they can, just like they do with our club.
Pity we have so many tools supporting our club that eat up the bullshit they publish.
This weird cottage industry which exists around Keane where former team mates make a few quid from telling heavily-embellished anecdotes about him must be demeaning for the people involved. Jason McAteer seems to have built an entire second career around telling tales about a bloke who patently thought he was a wanker.
I wonder how did Sir Alex react to this? sure, you can knock someone out if They looked like Heinze and flirted a move to Liverpool but surely it broke the club's rule? Maybe Sir Alex knocked Roy Keane out after this incident? makes sense to me.
Had high hopes early on for Heinze at United...hoped he would be a new Stuart Pearce..
Tough defender. That's about it though.
I sort of agree but think you're a bit cynical of it at the same time. Keane was a singular player and identity in football, of course the types of footballers who go the after dinner speaker kind of route would draw on him. We all want to hear about Roy Keane's antics, whether we like him or not.
We have to separate keane the player with keane the coach/pundit.
I really liked Heinze, despite the fact that he was a pretty limited player in a lot of ways. He put in some very good performances at Highbury and Anfield in his first season and I remember him having a cracking game in the league cup against Chelsea. He was a very tough defender and Sir Alex and Keane spoke of how aggressive and competitive he was in training.
Shame about the Liverpool business though.
Because it clearly wasn’t written in a way that any normal human would take offense to. You clearly tried to make something out of absolutely nothing - that’s the embarrassing part.
Like you said - context is everything and it wasobvious the context it was used in.
I see Liam Lawrence describing a bust up with Keane on Newstalk and I remember what Keane said about it in his book:
"This was my first real confrontation. I loved it. I thought to myself, ‘I want more of this – one of these a day.'"
Odd man really.
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You just completely made that up.
we need a thread of Keano's death stares
Absolutely...But SAF would have kept him for atleast another couple of seasons if he wasn’t such a negative influence on the squad.SAF was always very loyal to his players in that way,he stayed loyal to Fletcher,Scholes(towards the end of his career) when he could have got rid of them.Roy could have stayed at the club for another couple of years...But his mere presence created a toxic atmosphere in the dressing room...
LOL....We achieved success in that era because of SAF.Had there been no Roy Keane,SAF would have found another way to win...After Roy left the club,we actually won 5 Premierleague titles and reached 3 Championsleague finals.So let’s not overplay the role of Keane,he was an important cog in the machine just like Schmeicel,Scholes,Giggs,Cantona,Etc etc...There was no “Roy Keane “ era...It was Sir Alex fergusons era...We were champions before Roy joined the club and we kept winning titles at a canter long after he left the club...
He always acted that way, so his behavior only became a "problem" once he was done at the highest level. The main reason why he was shipped out is that he was not the player he once was. Plain and simple.
The behavior which once was allowed and clearly incouraged suddenly became an issue.
Roy Keane was brilliant for us, on and off the pitch during his best years. And there were so many of those years.
Sir Alex and Carlos Queiroz have a different take on this....They believe that Roy started losing his temper very frequently after 2003 when his powers were on the wane.Players like Giggs and Scholes were willing to adapt with age,but Roy wasn’t willing to do that.SAF believed that there was a discernible shift in Roys demeanour and attitude when he realised that he wasn’t the same player anymore...
In his autobiography he even said that Roy became more bitter and some of the younger players were intimidated by his mere prescence....Towards the end there was a toxic atmosphere in the dressing room.None of us were in the dressing room,so it’s basically SAF’s word against Roys....
I wasn't in the dressing room, but Keane got away with much worse shit than for what he was eventually kicked out. So, the point still stands, if he was still that beast of a player Fergie wouldn't bat an eyelid.
I have very little doubt that someone like Keane had a hard time dealing with decline, but on the other hand you can't complain about a behavior which you embraced and encouraged in all his time here. Because in combination with his winning mentality and brilliant performances the club massively benefited from it.
Watching him dominating Liverpool midfield in 2004 at the moment. Just as he did at Anfield in the return fixture. He was said to be well in decline by then.
Honestly he wasn’t kicked out because of any one particular incident,it was a culmination of events that took place over a number of months.I think it’s pretty well documented now that Roy wasn’t particularly fond of Queiroz and he constantly undermined Queiroz.When they went to Portugal for pre season he was the only player who criticised the accommodation...
He then had a go at Queiroz for putting on “repetitive” training sessions,but it was those training sessions that eventually made us european champions again.He then had a go at SAF for getting involved with the “Rock of Gibraltar”,which by the way shouldn’t be of any concern to him.
It then finally culminated with his interview to MUTV after the Boro defeat...Maybe your right,because his powers were on the decline SAF found it easier to get rid of him.But he wasn’t kicked out because of 1 incident,it was a series of incidents that ruined the harmony in the dressing room...
Obviously I respect Roy for what he acheived at the club,but let’s be clear,we would have been incredibly successful even without him....SAF was fundamental to our success,players like Roy were just cogs in a well oiled machine...Roy was just another cog in the machine,like Peter Schmeicel,like Giggs and Scholes,like Beckham,Cantona,Rooney etc....
The fact of the matter is that we were champions when Roy joined the club,and we won 5 Premierleague titles and reached 3 Championsleague finals after he left the club....
You simply cannot say that as fact. There’s no point pointing to what we won after him you’re talking about a completely different team, set of players, era, style of football etc. Roy Keane was a constant in an insanely consistent period along with Ferguson, Giggs, and Scholes, other players had long spells either side. That team had different Chelsea and from about 92 we were trying to catch up with the real elite of European football. By 2007 we were the elite. Many say keane was a huge part in maintaining dressing room standards. I don’t think at all the Roy Keane won us anything on his own. We had great talented committed players. But to say for certain we’d have won just as much without him is pretty simplistic and actually undermines the achievements of pretty much every player in that era. If keane was as easily replaceable as you say then I hate to think how simply some real top class club legends were too. Bizarre claim to make
I remember his anfield performances around then apart from his last where I believe he went off injured. He was so seasoned he was utterly unphased by atmosphere, pressure on the ball etc. He ran the games as if he had slippers on. The value on a player like that can’t be measured
Fergie was in for Pearce and made a couple of trips to Nottingham but got rebuffed by Clough. Just imagine that team with Ince, Hughes, Keane, Robson etc PLUS Stuart Pearce. We'd have been 3 up before kick off.
I don't think Pearce was any better than irwin
I was mainly referring to the violent threat we'd have posed all over the pitch.
It wasn’t just what we won after he left,we were Champions even when he joined the club.We already had very high standards at the club,and those standards were set by SAF and his staff.Roy played an important role in maintaining those standards along with others like Gary Neville,Eric Cantona,Schmeichel,Giggs,Dennis Irwin etc ....
I was replying to someone who spoke about a “Roy Keane Era”...And this notion that he singlehandedly won matches for United...I”m not denying the fact that he was an important player...He was just as important as Cantona,Giggs,Scholes,Beckham etc....
The most influential players were unsurpsingly hugely important to our successful. I'm sure Sir Alex would be the first to admit just how important some of the individuals were. There were no guarantees of winning anybody those titles even under the great man. Sir Alex was the driving force but we wouldn't have achieved anywhere near the same success without some of his players.
Even so the way you’ve replied to that person more than once suggests there is simply no question that what we achieved in the 90s would have happened without keane. Seems stupid to me to say that. I don’t think he won anything alone, i do think he was the most important of several really important players for at least the spell from 98-2001. If not before that barring his injured season (where we were trophyless)
Separately I would look at it by saying there isn’t a midfielder in the world playing today who you could compare to keane. Some are better than him at some things, but in terms of completeness and influence Keane’s era destroys the modern midfield player and keane was top dog in that era. Dominated the pl and more than once have monstrous performances in Europe. Would our team win the league or come closer to it if peak Roy Keane was added? Without question. What does that say about peak Pogba, Silva, Henderson and every cm in the league. He was a colossus and you dismiss him far far too easily.
Where are you watching? Is there a game archive somewhere?
Aye, you mean when Carlos said to him that we need repetition in training and he replied by asking him does he always make love with his wife in the same position...
Yeah, he was a loon, but he was always one, and a massive, massive part of our success.
There’s a few YouTube channels that show full games from through the years,sometimes completely random ones like hull at home. I enjoy doing it and it helps makes sure that your memory isn’t too embellished by rose tinted specs or by the opposite end like some say utter rubbish about Ferguson set up or tactics back then. The biggest difference I’ve noticed watching old ones is how deep teams used to set up very often against us. Kind of like v city now. This is where I think van gaal and mourinho had a tougher job because by October of moyes reign decades of it had been turned on end and teams have gotten braver and braver while actually getting better too I feel.
Share the channels, all I can ever find are 5 minute highlights. Cheers man!
I agree...Roy was just one of those players.Schmeichel,Giggs,Scholes,Cantona,Rooney,Ronaldo,Stam,Vidic,Rio etc etc were all incredibly influential,just like Roy....
Okay,let me put you on the spot here....Cantona from 93-96....Keane from 99-01....Ronaldo from 07-09....Who according to you had the most influence on the team?Dont be diplomatic and say all 3,Ofcourse all 3 were influential players in their own unique way.But if you had rate the influence of these 3 players in those 3 teams,who comes out on top according to you?
You just have to ask yourself who Roy Keane was brought to the club to replace.
Influence on the team? Keane for sure.
Ronaldo was by far the best player and most influential to the score board but I don't think he was your general rallying the troops when the chips were down.
I don't really recall Cantona ever being the one rallying the troops or giving a bollocking though in fairness he was playing in a team with Robson, Hughes, Pallister, Bruce, Schmeichel and Ince; plenty of big characters there. And while he was a key player I don't think he was ever SAF's representative on the pitch.
Keane was the midfield general. Simple as. He demanded more of his team mates and held them to a higher standard than they might normally have been held to at other clubs. He's volatile, he's contrary, he's a piece of shit and a prick but he was also a winner in the same vein as SAF.
The other two might have been more naturally gifted but I don't think either of them were half as influential on the team.
One night a few years ago, I was in a wine bar in Hale and Keane and his Wife and two friends were sat at a table near the bar. The language was choice and that was just the women. He looked up as I was clocking him and the eyes just burnt through me, nothing behind them. There was no problem, I just smiled but the hairs on the back of my neck stood on end. Just something about him, an angry man, intense, driven I guess.
I’m sure he’s a pussy cat really and it’s all a defence mechanism although I do wish he’d made contact with Shearer that time at Newcastle
I can see your point,but scoring 42 goals is hugely hugely influential....What Cantona did for that team by his sheer prescence and aura is indescribable.There are many ways of being influential....You can shout and scream and try to get that extra 2 percent from your team mates...Or you can just put the ball in the back of the net with your sheer quality and ability.
Why do you need to rant and rave and waste your energy on other stuff when you can just put the ball in the back of the net every week with your world class quality and ability?Did Ronaldo Or Cantonas mere prescence not influence the team?Just imagine the kind of confidence that must have flowed through every single player when Ronaldo And Cantona were in their prime?
You don’t have to be vocal and loud to influence your colleagues....That is just one of the ways of influencing them.But you can also influence them positively by sheer world class ability and quality.Watching Ronaldo and Cantona on the training field would have definitely influenced and inspired every single player in the squad.All the defenders would have improved by simply playing against them every day....And all the attackers would have been inspired to reach the level of Cantona and Ronaldo....
Messi isn’t vocal at all,he hardly ever speaks to any of his colleagues when he’s playing.But he influences them in every single way with his sheer quality and ability...I believe that Cantona and Ronaldo were more influential than Roy Keane....
I absolutely do not think Ronaldo was more influential at this club than Roy Keane.
He spent only three years with us? Felt like a lifetime. Mistake after mistake and nightmares in crucial games such as vs Milan in 2007. We'd have won that if Evra hadn't gotten injured.
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