RW - Do we need a goalscorer or a creator?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Skills, Apr 12, 2019.

  1. Apr 12, 2019
    #1

    Skills Snitch

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    Do we need someone to take the goalscoring burden and be our main goalscorer, or someone to be a creator and rack up assists?

    A part of me thinks that we potentially have enough goals in the team. Though we don't have a genuine 30 goal per season player, I think we have a midfielder in Pogba who scores more than the average. Another part of me is looking at teams like City, Liverpool and the formula for success seams to be to have a genuine 30+ goalscorer and at least one more who gets 20+. I don't know if we have that player in the club already for next season.

    So what's the more pressing need from out wide? Goal scoring ability or creativity?
  2. Apr 12, 2019
    #2

    Raw Full Member

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    Creativity I think. We lack so much creativity when we're in the final third, we need that inventiveness and flair that can win us games against the teams that are tough to break down.

    Ideally someone like Hazard! Loads of assists and quite a few goals to boot.
  3. Apr 12, 2019
    #3

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

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    Somebody who can do both would be nice.

    They need to be creative, but also have an individual goal threat. We need somebody the opposition are scared off, not happy to let them have the ball in wide areas.
  4. Apr 12, 2019
    #4

    Ekeke Full Member

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    Goal scoring will be important. We have no idea how Pogba will do without this season's midfield setup which is where he got that glut of goals from.
  5. Apr 12, 2019
    #5

    Skills Snitch

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    That's a very good point.
  6. Apr 12, 2019
    #6

    Fredo Full Member

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    We need creativity and someone who can play good through balls to make use of our striker's pace. If we push for Rashford as our main striker, long balls will be useless as he is physically not a lukaku and I wouldn't expect him to win headers. We should aim for a slick passer who can also shoot from outside the box when needed.
  7. Apr 12, 2019
    #7

    Needham Full Member

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    We need a relentless linker, an Erikson. Unflappable and consistent.
  8. Apr 12, 2019
    #8

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

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    Both really. It is no good creating if the people up top waste those chances. We need goals from midfield and up top to compete for the top prizes.
  9. Apr 12, 2019
    #9

    11101 Full Member

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    Goalscorer first.

    We need a consistent, guaranteed 20+ league goal a season striker. It's why we went for Lukaku but that hasn't worked, so we need to try again. Having someone who can shoulder that burden will help players like Rashford and Martial who i think are capable of providing as many assists as they do goals.

    We already have creative players, but to get an assist you need to have somebody on the end of it. We have players missing sitters and more often than not failing to make the runs in the first place. It's true that we also need width on the right but that can be provided by a full back if we set the team up correctly.
  10. Apr 12, 2019
    #10

    Gambit Desperately wants to be a Muppet

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    Remember the days when you could have both. Right now though creativity is paramount we look so flat in attack on the right, repeating the same thing ad infinitum.
  11. Apr 12, 2019
    #11

    Garethw scored 25-30 goals a season as a right footed RW

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    A goal scorer. The amount of chances we waste because of dreadful finishing is ridiculous.

    In reality we need both.
  12. Apr 12, 2019
    #12

    Bwuk Full Member

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    Both if we are honest.

    If we consider Martial/Rashford as two of our front 3, we need more goals in it as those two won’t score enough on their own.

    Top sides spread the goals anyway.
  13. Apr 12, 2019
    #13

    deadrevelz New Member

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    Both obviously. What good modern winger doesn't score goals? If we just want someone to run and cross we can use our fullbacks. With a bit of coaching Rashford could do this too... good cross on him and burns anyone for pace.

    Problem is there aren't many good ones available who do both. Not sure we'll buy anyone this summer.
  14. Apr 12, 2019
    #14

    Skills Snitch

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    Like? The only winger I can remember for us who was elite in both departments was Ronaldo in 06/07. He got 23 goals and 20 assists that season. He then shifted to more of a goalscorer and his assists dropped down.

    Beckham was always more of a provider than a scorer, same for Giggs.
  15. Apr 12, 2019
    #15

    TehRed Full Member

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    I think the modern game these days produces wingers who score more goals than they assist, to be honest. A lot of them even end up playing as a striker at some point - Messi, Ronaldo, Mertens, Bale, Griezmann, Mbappe, Dybala, to some extent Hazard, Reus, Gotze, Sterling, Robben, Son and Neymar. Salah and Mane tend to buck that trend as Klopp does mainly use them exclusively as wingers, despite their goalscoring ability.

    I think Sancho's stats and our links to him in the media are possibly the main reason that this conversation has srpung up, as he produces more assists than goals without being a bit part player, but the modern winger is more an inside forward these days in many respects and they get as many or more goals than assists over the course of a season. A lot of them can play in behind a main striker too. There's not too many old-school touchline huggers left.

    I think most meaningful players known more for assists than goals these days tend to play more centrally without being a striker, think Eriksen, the two Silvas, Ramsay, Draxler, Ozil, Mata, Thiago. That leaves a lot of big names out, such as Pogba, Fekir, Brandt, Bruno Fernandes, Muller, Havertz - these guys tend to be goalscorers in equal if not greater measure.
  16. Apr 12, 2019
    #16

    Havak Pokemon master

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    I think we need both.

    When you look at the names and the quality they should offer in Rashford, Martial, Lingard, Lukaku, Sanchez, and Mata... How many goals do you expect?

    Personally, I think it's criminal for there to be anything less than 60 goals in a season regardless of if one of these players suffers any lengthy injury. They currently have about 45 this season with potentially only 7 games left, so it's unlikely to get to that 60 mark. 60 is even low-balling it IMO, we really should be pushing for more like 80-100, I don't think that is unrealistic at all. If players can't contribute to these kinds of numbers then they are probably not as good as their past reputation suggests.

    Over the next 2-3 seasons we need to be adding more goals and creativity, getting rid of three of these players and bringing better ones in.

    Initially from Right Wing I think creativity is a bit more important, but only if the likes of Rashford and Martial can start scoring 25+ goals themselves.
  17. Apr 12, 2019
    #17

    Skills Snitch

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    Do they? We probably have the widest spread of goals in the entire league. Pogba, Rashford, Martial and Lukaku all have 10+ league goals with none of them pulling clear of another.
  18. Apr 12, 2019
    #18

    Zlatattack Full Member

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    Primarily we need someone creative who can make chances from the right hand side. Once we have that, I think we'll start scoring a lot more goals. Why?

    1. Obviously more chances = more attempts on goals = probably more goals

    2. Once we finally have a threat on the right, teams won't be able to be as compact against us and defend only against the LHS of our attack. This will mean our attackers end up with more space and will likely have more attempts on goals because of it, and perhaps even end up scoring more goals. The lopsidedness of our attacking approach is terrible.

    It would be an added benefit (and a minimum requirement from my perspective) to have someone who can contribute 15-20 goals a season from the right. If the RHS of the attack doesn't have a genuine goal threat, eventually teams will only try to defend against the cross or the assist and not have to worry too much about attempts on goal. It would leave us a little lop sided again.
  19. Apr 12, 2019
    #19

    Nialinho New Member

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    If you mean a goalscorer on an Mbappe/Sterling level, then more of a creator who can get more from our other players but chip in with 10+ goals a season as well. Sancho would be the dream :devil::devil:
  20. Apr 12, 2019
    #20

    Skills Snitch

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    So how many should we be expecting from Rashford and Martial as a minimum?
  21. Apr 12, 2019
    #21

    Gambit Desperately wants to be a Muppet

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    If we can get a right winger who can supply s much as them as well as score between 9-15 goals a season I would consider that being both. They would be scoring a well as supplying the assists to the strikers. For it to be an assist there has to be a goal on the end of it. Or supply from the right is minimal so an improvement in that area would increase our goals
  22. Apr 12, 2019
    #22

    settembrini Full Member

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    Goal scorer.

    I would address our creative issues by signing another attacking midfielder to play alongside Pogba with a single DM (Fred?) behind them.
  23. Apr 12, 2019
    #23

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

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    Ten goals a piece why are we so behind in the scoring ranks then? We should have at least one 20+ man, not patting people on the back because they got 10
  24. Apr 12, 2019
    #24

    Ekeke Full Member

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    Its what worries me with Ander leaving. We saw McTominay and Fred play well together, but we havent seen Pogba play at his best next to them and we've had trouble getting the most out of Pogba in other systems and with other personnel.

    Ander seems to do the dirty work and Pogba does the high quality offensive stuff. I obviously hope he adjusts to playing with Fred and McTominay with the way things to be going with Ander. But with the struggle we've had to get him playing as well as he has this season, I don't have a lot of confidence in him adjusting.
  25. Apr 12, 2019
    #25

    Skills Snitch

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    Well that's kind of my point. It seems like we have a lot of players who make a good supporting cast and can chip in with a good number of goals, but it doesn't seem like there is anyone to carry the primary goalscoring burden.
  26. Apr 12, 2019
    #26

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

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    You made a good point then. We simply have never replaced Ronaldo or even found another RvP. You look at Spurs with Harry Kane, he is missing again, but you just watch Son pick up the slack. Liverpool have goals from all their front three. City get goals from all over the midfield and front line.
  27. Apr 12, 2019
    #27

    harms Way Staff

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    Sure. Only in the league:
    Agüero, Sterling, Sane, Silva x2, Mahrez and Gündogan are all on 5+ goals (and 2 will end up with 20+);
    Salah, Mane and Firmino are all on 10+ (and at least 2 will finish on 20+);
    Barca are very Messi-centric, but they have 2 20+ forwards already plus 8 goals from Dembele and 5 from Coutinho;
    PSG has 4 players that will end up with 10+ goals, if not for Neymar’s Injury they’d probably have 3 players with more than 20 goals in the league itself;

    The difference is, all of them have at least one goalscorer who is on another level completely compared to ours.
  28. Apr 12, 2019
    #28

    Lash Full Member

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    Either really. I personally think we need more scorers. If they could do both, well that would be just grand :D.
  29. Apr 12, 2019
    #29

    Zlatattack Full Member

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    That's a good question - so I had a look at what other players do.

    Just focusing on the league.

    Eden Hazard seems to average about 13 (if you take out 1 really poor season)
    Mane averages about 13
    Sterling has got 18 and 15 in his last 2 seasons.

    So if Rashford and Martial are played as wide attackers, i think 15 league goals should be a fair target. Again this only works if we have 2 wide attackers getting 15 goals and a central striker getting about 20-25 (like Aguero and Kane have been doing). We also need Pogba to be chipping in with goals regularly too. He's been good this season, got 11 goals for us in the league so far.

    If those kind of figures happened every season, we'd get about 60-65 goals? Doesn't seem a lot does it?
  30. Apr 12, 2019
    #30

    Woziak Full Member

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    Last 5 games against decent opposition;
    Arsenal, Wolves, Watford, Wolves, Barcelona
    suggests we need both 4 goals in 5 games at the business end of the season suggests lack of elite talent and big game Mentality.

    I finally got what the Felix hype was all about yesterday, this boy is the real deal and offers both so we should simply make him our no 1 priority and pay his €120M buyout clause before someone else like City does.
  31. Apr 12, 2019
    #31

    Skills Snitch

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    But that doesn't make sense to me. If we sign a RW primarily for creativity (and as you said, he'll allow the other players to score more goals) and expect him to score 15-20 as a minimum, how can Rashford and Martial get away with scoring only 15 goals themselves as the main goalscorers? Who is that 20-25 goalscorer then?
  32. Apr 12, 2019
    #32

    Raees Legal Guardian of the Football forums

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    Both. We need a guy who can create chances with a mazy dribble or a through ball/cross and also be able to get 15-25 goals a season minimum. Team is crying out for a top notch winger/wing-forward/playmaker in the mould of a Hazard/Ribery.
  33. Apr 12, 2019
    #33

    Skills Snitch

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    So basically someone to come in top our goals chart as well as the assists chart. Not asking for much there mate :wenger:
  34. Apr 12, 2019
    #34

    Raees Legal Guardian of the Football forums

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    Well not our goals chart but definitely our assists.

    Our goals chart should be topped by Martial/ whoever plays up front.

    In modern game both widemen should be able to do everything - it shouldn’t be an either or situation.
  35. Apr 12, 2019
    #35

    Jacckk1985 New Member

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    If Martial is the long term Left Flank solution, we need someone who is true winger and can whip in crosses from the byline, not only try to take on and dribble in.
  36. Apr 12, 2019
    #36

    Zlatattack Full Member

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    What do you want me to do? Score the goals myself?

    I'd want someone to create assists and score goals themselves. i thought 15-20 goals sounded about right. I had a google, seemed a bit much compared to what other wide attackers were doing, so i rounded expectations down to 15.
  37. Apr 12, 2019
    #37

    dove Full Member

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    Depends on the players around him. If we plan playing with Martial - Rashford - NEW RW, then I think he should be a goalscorer as Martial and Rashford simply won't score enough goals, they are way too inconsistent and we would struggle. If we plan having Lukaku (or a new striker who can score 20+ goals) as a main striker then someone who can create chances for him and others would probably be better.
  38. Apr 12, 2019
    #38

    Cloud7 Full Member

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    Ideally we really do need both, but gun to my head to choose only one, it would be a creator. We simply don’t create enough chances. If we get another primary scorer then the issue of not creating enough chances still comes about, unless we get another extremely creative player in the midfield alongside Pogba.
  39. Apr 12, 2019
    #39

    Infra-red Full Member

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    We need both. T. Hazard, Sancho, Lozano, Bergwijn could potentially offer that.
  40. Apr 12, 2019
    #40

    Trizy New Member

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    It all depends on what we're thinking of doing with our striker. If we offload Lukaku and don't plan on using Martial or Rashford as the ST (They're not good enough) and plan to get in high scoring forward then we need a creator, something in the mold of a Sane, Sancho, Willian.

    If we plan on keeping Lukaku we then need a goal scoring RW.

    Our if we're lucky we scrap Lukaku, get a high scoring forward and manage to find a goal scoring and creative winger (Mahrez, Hazard, Mane).