Same old Ingurland?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Raees, Jun 13, 2010.

  1. Jun 13, 2010
    #1

    Raees Full Member

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    <p>[​IMG]</p>
    <p>Typical.. just typical, we just never seem to learn. New manager, a supposedly great one at that and yet we are treated to the same stinking pile of horsehit we've been subjected to for the past 6 years of following England.</p>
    <p>Since Euro 2004... where we were treated to a young ball-playing paceycovering centre-backLedley King in defence alongside an enthusiastic John Terry, a Scholes and a half decent version of Beckham in an england team.. as well as a world class finisher in Owen and a phenomenon in Wayne Rooney.. we have not produced a technically accomplished team since, one that iscapable of taking the breath away with a spell of quality posession or ability to unlock even the greatest of defences.</p>
    <p>Damn Rooney's metatarsel because that Euro 2004 team was our best team since France 98 and arguably our best since 1990, with a rampaging young Wayne Rooney capable of dribbling, yes 'DRIBBLING' and scoring any type ofgoal from anywhere.. we outplayed a very decent France side and were unlucky to lose 2-1 and we went on to play some quality football before inevitably losing on penalties to Portugal. If Wayne had stayed fit during the whole tournement.. I think we could've won it.</p>
    <p>By 2006... the true world class quality players of the era, your Owens, your Scholes and Beckhams, Campbells ... had all seen better days and in Scholes case refused to play again, so there was a gaping hole waiting to be filled and in my opinion it is still waiting to be filled. The likes of Gerrard and Lampard, the Defoe's of this world just lack the technical gravitas to match up to the worlds elite and whilst it can be covered up in club football by surrounding them with technically gifted foriegn players, when they're leftexposed and without supportin an england shirt.. their deficiencies are laid bare for all to see.</p>
    <p>The catylyst for 2004, Rooney... just isn't the same beast any more and despite many lauding his new found efficiency in front of goal, he is more weighty and less nimble of foot to take two or three men on and create something out of nothing. He is more a 2002 World Cup Ronaldo on a good day... rather than a Ronaldo phenom of 1998, in his own way just as good but with such a lack of technical talent and ability to control a game from the rest of the side, its not what this current side needs, this side would benefit more from a dribbling younger Wayne Rooney, but you have to make do with what you've got, we have to create a side which suits the current version of Rooney and I don't think we're trying hard enough.</p>
    <p>Problems with the current side</p>
    <p>[​IMG]</p>
    <p>As I have alluded to, the biggest problem is the lack of control England can assert over any given game when under pressure, when trying to stamp your authority on a game... the best way to do this is through your midfield who with snappy accurate one touch passing and good movement on the ball can help keep posession and keeping feeding the ammunition for quality attacking movements.</p>
    <p>[​IMG]</p>
    <p>There is also the problem of our defence which looks alot more rocky than it has in past tournements, defending is usually our biggest strength when it comes to big tournements.. but at the moment our defence looks threadbare. Furthermore the goalkeeping conundrum and our inability to pick mentally sound keepers who thrive on the big occasion has also repeatedly cost us.</p>
    <p>A final problem we have is unintelligent wingers, they don't have the subtle skills to beat aquality fullbackfrom a standing start or the confidence to take the pressure off the side by creating a counter attack out of nothing (turning a man in our own half and going past 1/2 players and attacking space) and our current batch of widemen rely alot on the rest of the team keeping possesion and providing the magic in the team... which based on our current midfield is simply not going to happen... C.Ronaldo,Messi, Robbenor even Robinho and Ribery they evidently are not.</p>
    <p>Possible solutions to our problems</p>
    <p>Instead of going back to the same old tactics, the same old inhibition which has plagued the english game since 1966 but was momentarily relieved through the exploits of Gazza and furthermore Rooney in 2004... we need to be bold and get as many technically gifted mentally strong players on that pitch as is possible... because sitting back and playing cautiously is simply not good enough and with our defence as creaky as it is... it doesn't seem a sensible ploy, especially if playing for draws equals playing for penalties later on in the competition.</p>
    <p>[​IMG]</p>
    <p>What do Ithink could be a decent solution?I propose a three man midfield, just like I'm sure many of you have advocated... however I want to see one based on guile, creativity... ball-retention, one which makes the team appear more continental rather than a team which bases its attacking movements on Bolton. I'd like to see a midfield with Barry-Gerrard and Joe Cole just in front of them as a link man behind Rooney and the midfield.</p>
    <p>Barry for his defensive deficiencies.. has alot more mobilty on the ball than any either Lampard or Carrick, he is also more accustomed to being a deep-lying playmaker than both and is a very confident player, always looking to be purposeful on the ball. His reading of the game is good, his tracking back pace is not that great but in tandem with Gerrard I think the latter could cover for him if need be and I'm confident that both share a mutual respect and understanding between each other.</p>
    <p>If Joe Cole is to play (I'll come to him later), then there can only be one midfield spot remaining and its a straight choice in my opinion between Stevie G and Fat Frank... based on the performances in the friendlies and our first game, the man in current possession of the shirt is obviously the captain Steven Gerrard who looks pumped up and ready to stamp his name on this tournement. He has scored a goal, his defensive work has been excellent and even his communication and leadership on the pitch seems like its moving in the right direction. He may not be the most technically gifted player and his playmaking leaves alot to be desired, but I believe by surrounding him with two more talented natural pass and movers in Barry and J.Cole, we can allow Gerrard to be himself rather than labour him and the team as a resultwith giving him the responsibility ofrunning the game.</p>
    <p>[​IMG]</p>
    <p>The crucial player to Englands hopes, if there are any... is Joe Cole, he is the one player we have who would'nt look out of place in any european team and whilst he has lost the zip of youth... in a central role, he can still move into pockets of space and help with the linking and construction of attacking movements. Sticking him on thw wing however as Capello is intent on doing is a recipe for disaster as he simply does not have the pace to be effective there and if England are to face a top side and setting up to counter... A Joe Cole on the wing is unlikely to make much happen and can easily be nullified. His role in this current side is crucial I feel and I just pray to god.. that second half v Japan is replicated for the rest of the tournement, everything seemed to click albeit for 20 paltry minutes against the might of Japan.</p>
    <p>Whilst I feel we have the players hopefully to fix the midfield, with the right selections... I'm less confident about our centre-backs, they all look laboured and past their best, if we are pressing high up the pitch with such slow defenders we are asking for trouble. If we play uber-defensive later on in the tournement we may stand a chance against the big teams, but I would've liked to have seen Dawson play in the friendlies so we could guage if he can hack International Level. He has alot more speed than any of the other centre-backs we have got and I have a feeling that he may sneak into the team if we continue to look so vulnerable to pace. Fingers crossed though that Terry and whomever partners him can handle the fort.... one littlething that will help the defence no end, is by sorting out the last line of defence, the goalkeeping position...</p>
    <p>[​IMG]</p>
    <p>Since before the tournement started, I've been a big supporter of Joe Hart and could not see the sense in picking Green or James ahead of this young kid who is not tarnished by bad memories. Green ever since he came into the England side has been awful for his club and nerves have plagued his club performances with uncharacteristic errors and as for Calamity, how many more times do we have to pick consistent failures before we are left with our trousers between our legs. Joe hart has the personality and the cockiness about him to relish his chance on the international stage, he wants it bad and I believe the time has come for England to take a bold approach to the goalkeeping situation.</p>
    <p>[​IMG]</p>
    <p>How do we solve the wingers situation, frankly we've left ourselves no options... the most intelligent wideplayer we had in Adam Johnson, wasn't considered ready for this years World Cup, so we can do nothing but offer advice to either Lennon and SWP as we don't have options to replace them. What we can do is make things easier for them... by allowing Gerrard and Joe Cole to be the main magic players apart from Rooney, we can simplify the job for Lennon and SWP by placing them either side of Rooney and ordering them to simply provide width and create space for our dovetailing midfielders. In a 4-4-2, with Lampard and Gerrard, our central midfield is so pedestrian and the whole set up so long ball... it places way too much pressure on our wide players who with limited touches of the ball have to be responsible for creating all our goalscoring chances, we need to make the job simpler for them and instead burden the creative side of the game on the shoulders of Joe Cole and Gerrard, who can do this to optimum effect through the middle.</p>
    <p>Conclusion</p>
    <p>So there it is, a run through from past problems and what currently plagues us and a possible solution... after that English performance v the Americans, I am fast losing hope... is Capello really a pragmatist who will go for the best team regardless of hurting peoples feelings and going against his own original beliefs, or is he a stubborn mule who refuses to admit he was wrong with his caveman tactics and follow all England managers of the past since 1966 and rely on English grit and competitiveness rather than focus on playing other teams off the pich and seeking to assert sustained control over a game and thus bringing the best out of Rooney.</p>
    <p>That 66 team had Bobby Charlton, who ran games .. he was the guy who in the middle would recieve the ball under pressure and instead of passing back, he'd take his man on and make sure England were facing forwards ready to attack. The 1990 team had Gascoigne, with able support from Platt and Waddle, technically gifted midfielders who drove England forward and helped us retain possession.</p>
    <p>The current side needs midfielders of this ilk... it may not possess any, but would it hurt to try and make up for it by playing the technically assured midfielders we do have? Anyway without further ado.. my own proposed lineup..</p>
    <p>
    Hart
    </p>
    <p>
    Johnson Terry Dawson Cole
    </p>
    <p>
    Barry Gerrard
    </p>
    <p>
    Lennon J.Cole SWP
    </p>
    <p>
    Rooney
    </p>
  2. Jun 13, 2010
    #2

    unitedbhoy Full Member

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    Lolz
  3. Jun 13, 2010
    #3

    Kraftwerker Formerly RedAddict

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    Worst formatted post ever?
  4. Jun 13, 2010
    #4

    I'm always right Banned

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    Why does this have all the html coding? It makes it impossible to read!
  5. Jun 13, 2010
    #5

    Ole's_toe_poke Ole_Aged_Slow_Poke

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    I'm sure there have been worse
  6. Jun 13, 2010
    #6

    Spammy Being watched; will learn to post in the correct f

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    <p> I disagree </p>
  7. Jun 13, 2010
    #7

    MikeUpNorth Wobbles like a massive pair of tits

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    It's more readable on the blog.
  8. Jun 13, 2010
    #8

    Raees Full Member

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    Chill out you tards, I've sorted it out.. its the blog, always does this!!... to me anyway.
  9. Jun 13, 2010
    #9

    MikeUpNorth Wobbles like a massive pair of tits

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    You might want to ditch that top picture as it means you have to horizontal scroll on each line to read in firefox.
  10. Jun 13, 2010
    #10

    Raees Full Member

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    Thanks for that Mike xox
  11. Jun 13, 2010
    #11

    Spammy Being watched; will learn to post in the correct f

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    You've got SWP on the left, did you write this after you'd seen him play last night?

    If so, I suggest suicide.
  12. Jun 13, 2010
    #12

    Raees Full Member

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    Spammy.. Do you think I like SWP, heck no.. but there is literally no wide players left in the squad we can turn to??
  13. Jun 13, 2010
    #13

    Uncle Junior Banned

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    TL;DR, summary? Are England winning it or not?
  14. Jun 13, 2010
    #14

    Spammy Being watched; will learn to post in the correct f

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    Anyone, let's play 10 men. I haven't read your OP so I'm assuming you explained there why Joe Cole isn't you man for the left instead of replacing Lampard?

    You just can't get away with playing players like SWP if you want to progress. He's like the epitome of everything that's wrong with our team.
  15. Jun 13, 2010
    #15

    Aboutreika18 Full Member

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    Gerrard in CM rather than behind Rooney. :houllier:
  16. Jun 13, 2010
    #16

    Ceks Prefers em hot, and spicy

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    In other words, we're fecked.
  17. Jun 13, 2010
    #17

    Rado_N Grinner ruined my tagline

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    Shouldn't this be in the world cup forum?
  18. Jun 13, 2010
    #18

    Raees Full Member

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    I agree.. I don't rate him at all but I think that for the good of the team, we need wide players with pace, despite their limitations, Rooney benefits by being surrounded by pace.

    Joe Cole doesn't have the pace to play as a wideman, against strong team he'll be marshalled with ease, but in central areas he'll be alot harder to handle.

    I think Joe Cole would be a better number 10 than Gerrard, he has better technical ability and can hold the ball up better, Gerrard is needed deeper as he is one of our best defensive players as well as being an accomplished attacker.
  19. Jun 13, 2010
    #19

    MJLD Full Member

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    Same old England in that everyone has overreacted, yes. Bunch of spastics. We drew our first 1966 game 0-0.
  20. Jun 13, 2010
    #20

    Cina Warrior Princess

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    :lol: Get over it buddy.
  21. Jun 13, 2010
    #21

    Spammy Being watched; will learn to post in the correct f

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    Joe Cole doesn't need pace and he also doesn't need to maintain width as our problems don't stem from a lack of width, Cole coming in from the left also makes it easier for us to keep the ball, easier for us to move the ball and harder for the opposition to stop him playing. Playing SWP because he's fast is the same as playing Heskey because he's big, and it gets us nowhere - fast!
  22. Jun 13, 2010
    #22

    kietotheworld Banned

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    Why would you drop Lampard and keep Gerrard? Contrary to popular belief, Gerrard was terrible in the position yesterday, and his good performances there are extremely rare. He looked good yesterday because he kept flying around making tackles, but that was only because he kept giving the ball away (over 40% of his passes went to opponents) and because he was so far out of position that he had to sprint back to cover. Lampard by contrast, has had an excellent season in the position, and had a disciplined, if quiet, performance. I'd rather start with Carrick and Barry in central midfield, than Gerrard alongside anyone, he can't play that position at international level, and that's been obvious for years now.

    Gerrard can play on either wing or upfront, and he should be in the team if we're playing 4-4-2 but playing him in Central Midfield, certainly in that formation, is suicide against quality teams. He would just be made a fool of.
  23. Jun 13, 2010
    #23

    MJLD Full Member

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    Get over what?

    The point remains - people are panicking that this draw against the USA was shite, was 'typical England' when its clearly going to have little impact on the rest of the World Cup.
  24. Jun 13, 2010
    #24

    Spammy Being watched; will learn to post in the correct f

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    Load of rubbish.
  25. Jun 13, 2010
    #25

    kietotheworld Banned

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    Doesn't the fact that hardly any quality managers ever pick him there, and England are usually shit when he does play there, tell you something?
  26. Jun 13, 2010
    #26

    esmufc14 9 Pages of infractions

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    :houllier: What a stupid response. Perhaps we should just close the forum and have no discussion based on that. I agree with kietotheworld, Gerrard had a good opening but when the USA started to get into the game he was, once again, poor.
  27. Jun 13, 2010
    #27

    Red_Jamie Full Member

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    :nono:



    -------Barry---Lampard------
    Lennon-----------------J.Cole
    ---------Gerrard-------------
    ----------------Rooney-------
  28. Jun 13, 2010
    #28

    Raees Full Member

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    Gerrard scored a goal, he made several tackles and he also put in dangerous crosses... to me thats a good enough game, but the problem is that it neither fits into a wholly defensive midfield type of game or a playmaking type of performance.

    Its why I think accompanying him with Barry and Cole who compensate for his weaknesses, allow him freedom to do abit of everything which suits him better.
  29. Jun 13, 2010
    #29

    Spammy Being watched; will learn to post in the correct f

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    2+2=5, one swallow does not a summer make etc
  30. Jun 13, 2010
    #30

    Pexbo Takes body parts and sells them on Amazon.

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    Barry being injured was a problem to Capello it's just a shame he couldn't trust Carrick with that role.

    USA are no mugs, they were organised and we struggled to break them down. I wasn't the slightest bit surprised by the fact we drew. As long as we beat Slovenia and Algeria convincingly I'm not going to have any complaints about the first game at the world cup against an organised team who it should be remembered are the only team to beat Spain in about 120 games.
  31. Jun 13, 2010
    #31

    Spammy Being watched; will learn to post in the correct f

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    Yes.
  32. Jun 13, 2010
    #32

    Boss Melodramatic, attention seeking space-attacker

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    Looks good
  33. Jun 13, 2010
    #33

    kietotheworld Banned

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    Maybe he can play there against shit Premier League teams and occasionally do well but I think they're the swallows. I'm sure you watch him a lot more than I do, so can you point out his last good performance in Central Midfield in a 4-4-2 against top quality opposition (ie. about the level you'd have to beat to win the World Cup), because I certainly can't remember it.
  34. Jun 13, 2010
    #34

    Spammy Being watched; will learn to post in the correct f

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    Last night.
  35. Jun 13, 2010
    #35

    Devil_forever You're only young once, you can be immature f'ever

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    Oh don't mind him, he'll just pick out the positives and write his usual boring stuff, in the same format. Solius is right, he really is a bot. I haven't seen him post anything that might suggest that he ever thinks out of the box.
  36. Jun 13, 2010
    #36

    kietotheworld Banned

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    So a pass completion rate of 59% is a good performance from a central midfielder? A 20% cross completion rate is good? Since when were the United States top quality opposition anyway?
  37. Jun 13, 2010
    #37

    Spammy Being watched; will learn to post in the correct f

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    Since you decided that this level was the level you have the beat to progress in the WC.

    Also, feck off with your stats, they don't tell the whole story.
  38. Jun 13, 2010
    #38

    kietotheworld Banned

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    I didn't decide anything of the sort. Considering he was so bad against USA, I'm terrified of what will happen if he comes up against good central midfielders when we are playing teams you need to beat to win the World Cup.

    I suspect the real reason you won't name a good CM performance against top class opposition is because a) You can't remember either or b) You can remember but it was when Gerrard was about 20.

    I watched the game and I saw that he was giving away the ball too much, and going miles out of position, the statistics support that. That it looks cool to be flying into tackles and charging around the pitch, and that this 'all action' style is so idolised in England, is why he's so over-rated in the first place.
  39. Jun 13, 2010
    #39

    red2deadboy Banned

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    Unable to functions as a team, hence they couldn't even manage to string 3 passes together and resorting to fecking lobbing balls up field. Feel sorry for the manager as i am sure they look good in training and show glimps of progressing but he'll realise they just can't play as a unit and will fail to get out of the group.
  40. Jun 13, 2010
    #40

    Fergies Formula Full Member

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    Our problem is clear, we lack a midfielder who always looks for the ball and can dominate possesion from the centre albeit with small, long, quick and direct passes. Possesion is our weakest area and means we often struggle. We lack patience in our passing game and rush everything.

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