Same old Ingurland?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Raees, Jun 13, 2010.

  1. Jun 13, 2010
    #41

    AttackingFlair Full Member

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    SWP should be nowhere near the team. Awful player.
  2. Jun 13, 2010
    #42

    Spammy Being watched; will learn to post in the correct f

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    I am fully aware of how he played last night, but he was still our best player and had the best attitude of all the players. I'm not rising to the bait because part of me can't be arsed to explain that he hasn't played that role since about 2 years ago until the last 3 games of the season - when the whole team was a defeated shadow of it's former self. Also I have to have this retarded argument every other week on redmythcafe and I'm pretty tired of it.
  3. Jun 13, 2010
    #43

    kietotheworld Banned

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    Having the best attitude is worthless if you're passing the ball to the opponents all the time. I'd rather have a composed midfielder actually passing the ball to his team-mates than a player who is charging around like a drunken fool tackling the other team and then giving it back to them.

    Even if we accept that he's quality in the CM role, if he hasn't played it for 2 years then it's still a really bad idea to be throwing him back into it for a World Cup, especially when he's notoriously bad alongside Lampard. Gerrard has been a defeated shadow of his former self all season, so asking him to move into a role requiring him to be more disciplined, and him to move away from his natural game is plain daft. Has he ever played well for England alongside Lampard? If he has it was in a game I didn't watch.
  4. Jun 13, 2010
    #44

    AttackingFlair Full Member

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    We do need ball players. The sooner the likes of Wilshere/Rodwell get experience, the better. In the mean time, there's no excuse not to use someone like Joe Cole who can keep the ball, shield it, dribble and most importantly, pass to a team mate.

    Bizzare how anyone can choose Shite Phillips ahead of him, or even Milner.
  5. Jun 14, 2010
    #45

    Spammy Being watched; will learn to post in the correct f

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    It's not moving him out of his natural position, he's not naturally a #10. Partnering him with Lampard was a risk but Frank has to take most of the blame, he won't come and take it off the defence and he won't run with the ball. I wouldn't partner them in a flat midfield, I'd put them in a 3 with Barry of Carrick, with Gerrard deeper than his role for Liverpool this year.
  6. Jun 14, 2010
    #46

    esmufc14 9 Pages of infractions

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    Spammy nobody asked you .
  7. Jun 14, 2010
    #47

    Bearded but no genius Full Member

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    That could be a bit of an overreaction.

    Poor Gerrard was trying to do everything last night. He was immense, but he stood no chance of doing it all by himself at this stage.

    Rooney couldn't be creative when he was just trying to calm things down and create a bit of possession for others (when he wasn't isolated).

    For once Heskey did his job, and somehow everyone seems shocked he can't finish anything. I will say he didn't really link well with Rooney, but I'll put that on the fact Rooney was quiet in general and looking backward instead of looking to link up with Heskey. It wasn't Heskey's fault particularly (I don't think it was Rooney's either - he was trying to get the team going).

    The wingers are horrible. Joe Cole, you are required. Milner? You're honestly having a laugh. He was sick, they say. Watching him made me sick. He made that Chaluaopcxscfsdfergwghedeuuega or whatever he was called look a lot better than he was.

    Cole may not be the fastest, but he is the cleverest that England have. End of. The headless chicken stuff doesn't work. Cole and Lennon for me.

    King was decent enough until the inevitable gust of wind required him to be rushed to hospital. Dawson needs his chance now.

    Terry looked a little lost. I know he's no longer the captain, but I found it a bit funny that the only leadership he seemed to want to show to a creaking defense was by grassing up Ledley King when King was trying to be a man and play through his problem.

    Cole didn't really do anything wrong, but needs to be able to get forward more with confidence that he's covered.

    Johnson deserved a medal for trying.

    Carragher deserved a ticket home. On a rowboat. With a hole in it. And a lead weight around his feet (although based on his recent performances, he's already got that naturally).

    Green's howler changed the match. I think England would have cruised to a 3-1 win without it. But with it, everyone froze on the big stage as "England Expects" again. Unlike everyone else, I think at some point you have to stick with someone. Green is as good as the rest of them. The one with all the experience is nicknamed "Calamity" for a reason. I think the pressure and potential for similar mistakes on Hart would be exponentially more than it would be just sticking with Green for the WC and dealing with whether he's the number one after it.

    The big mistake was going 4-4-2 in the first place.

    Overrun the USA in the midfield with clever movement. Outpass them, as was done for the first goal.

    Do what England can do with the players they can do it with.

    This means 4-5-1 as everyone has said.

    This means playing Lennon and Cole on the wings, this means Gerrard the furthest forward of a MF three that includes (until Barry is fit) Carrick.

    England can still go far in this tournament. England shouldn't be favourites given everything that has happened with injuries, team disruptions, and the like.

    But you never know.
  8. Jun 14, 2010
    #48

    Bearded but no genius Full Member

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    Gerrard's "flying around" was breaking up attacks, responding to attacking movement, and doing this little thing called "scoring goals".

    That was because he was "all action".

    He was immense.

    If everyone sat down in the centre circle and ate their dinner (and probably a couple of others) like Lampard did last night, England would be going out in the groups.
  9. Jun 14, 2010
    #49

    Bearded but no genius Full Member

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    I did.
  10. Jun 14, 2010
    #50

    Bearded but no genius Full Member

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    I saw Milner on the team sheet and started laughing.
  11. Jun 14, 2010
    #51

    Grinner Fat gutted, hairy shouldered, stinky Arse.

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    We always start slow and crap. That was our toughest game and we should have won. The best yank player was Howard...that tells it all really. I'd be worried if I was a yank since they don't look like scoring much at all.

    We'll get through and then get proper raped in the knockout rounds by a quality side.
  12. Jun 14, 2010
    #52

    Spammy Being watched; will learn to post in the correct f

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    Again, people are praising Heskey in the same way they say people with down syndrome are 'brave'. He is guff.

    Other than that you are very correct my love muscle.

    I also thought of you and the other Yanks on here when Carra got out run for Altidore's chance that Green pushed onto the post. I saw it coming a mile off and my redcafe life flashed before my eyes as I realised what was about to happen.

    Oh well, onwards and upwards, hopefully Slovenia can take a point off you and we can smash Slovenia and Algeria because I really, really don't want to come second in our group :(
  13. Jun 14, 2010
    #53

    esmufc14 9 Pages of infractions

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    Why were all the commentators praising that Green save anyway? It was shit and he should have done much better with it, if it goes in it's classed as a 'howler'.
  14. Jun 14, 2010
    #54

    Bearded but no genius Full Member

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    That's what I saw too, as an outsider and an American (mind you, one who hates everything about American "sawker" culture).

    I can't understand the panic that happens every tournament in England.

    Oh, and can someone please bludgeon Alexi Lalas to death with a 24" dildo?
  15. Jun 14, 2010
    #55

    Bearded but no genius Full Member

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    Thanks sweets.

    England will win the group.

    The USA are not going to like the other teams in the group. Algeria are essentially France B, and can get down and dirty when they want to. Slovenia are a very handy side - I don't know why everyone was surprised that they won today given they knocked out Russia. They'll all be playing their top stuff against the USA, expecting it is between the three of them for who goes through with England.

    They may well be a bit star struck against England, and provided that the weight of those three lions don't burden your lot too horribly much, everything will be all set up for your traditional late-round exit.

    I know what you mean about Heskey. But he's picked specifically to provide with the knowledge that he'll essentially never score. That much is obvious by now. Most everyone on planet earth aside from England's opponents disagree with the selection, but that's the logic behind it.

    It screams out for 4-5-1, and I thought that was the reason England got the fancy Italian master tactician in the first place.

    Instead they're playing 4-4-2 against the Americans?

    Fur realz? If Landon Donovan had scored to win I would have moved to Canada just so I didn't have to be associated with the wanking.

    And Carragher? This is why he "retired" from the national team in the first place. He's been living a charmed life in the prem somehow. Look up liability in the dictionary and there's a four page photo-spread.

    How's your (upper) eye?
  16. Jun 14, 2010
    #56

    Spammy Being watched; will learn to post in the correct f

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    Believe me, I'm aware of Slovenia, I'm aware of any opponent we face. As they say; a pessimist is never disappointed. Except with England, that's not strictly true as they find a way every time to make a manic depressive feel even worse.

    The eye is much better cheers, still giving my discomfort but they said it will do for 5 days or so.
  17. Jun 14, 2010
    #57

    surf Full Member

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    King's tournament is done, which is no great loss. Losing Rio was the major blow because it has upset the balance of our defence. Having Green behind and Lampard directly in front isn't helping them either. JT is going to have his work cut out holding the back line together.
  18. Jun 14, 2010
    #58

    AttackingFlair Full Member

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    Gerrard's performance was Hargreaves-esque without the goal. He should play further up the pitch, either left wing or behind Rooney for me. You can say he ran around slide tackled etc but he also gave the ball away a lot and England couldn't keep any possession or passing moves because of himself and Lampard. If only we had Paul Scholes..
  19. Jun 14, 2010
    #59

    Team Brian GB Baby Cameron loves X-Factor

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    With the players available this is the best way to go.

    Hart

    Johnson Dawson Terry A.Cole

    Barry Gerrard

    Lennon Lampard J.Cole

    Rooney ​
  20. Jun 14, 2010
    #60

    Raees Full Member

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    Lampard cannot be the player in the hole.. he just doesn't have the skill at international level to feed Rooney.

    Alot of you favour Gerrard in this role and I hope you're right that it works, but I honestly believe Joe Cole is the best 'in the hole' player we have got.

    Look at Ozil yesterday, having a dribbler in that position with a good eye for a pass makes a great difference... he is a flair player and Joe Cole is the closest England have to such a player.

    We need to change this team and be different, be more silky not go back to old school dynamism and grit.
  21. Jun 14, 2010
    #61

    Fergies Formula Full Member

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    This is more suited. Our players need to concentrate on ball rentention even if its not gaining ground, just dont force the pass!!! it will breed confidence, i just hope we see this line up, it will allow rooney cole n gerrard to freedom and give defence a lot of problems. Dawson is quick and at the minute focused. Cant do worse than King
  22. Jun 14, 2010
    #62

    Rowem Full Member

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    Absolutely agree with this team and the fact that Lampard should be in the hole.

    He's shit as an orthodox CM.
  23. Jun 14, 2010
    #63

    Anderson Searl Reserve Team Player

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    If SWP and Heskey knew how to shoot the ball we'd be talking about a dominating 3-1 English win... Kneejerkish if i've ever seen it this
  24. Jun 14, 2010
    #64

    marcus agrippa Full Member

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    But the point is they don't, and they're what England have taken to SA.
  25. Jun 14, 2010
    #65

    Bearded but no genius Full Member

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    He doesn't have the DISCIPLINE.

    He just wants to turn and shoot.
  26. Jun 15, 2010
    #66

    Raees Full Member

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    Der Kaiser
  27. Jun 15, 2010
    #67

    Bilbo Full Member

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    I thought we played fairly well on Saturday. So do most people I've spoken to in real life. Not sure if the internet is only meant to be used as a ranting tool these days, but it wasn't really that bad at all. We created quite a few chances, we controlled the game, and there were some spells of good football.

    We start slow, we'll improve, and we've got every chance of getting to the semi-finals. After that, who knows.
  28. Jun 16, 2010
    #68

    Red_Jamie Full Member

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    Desailly has just agreed that this should be Englands formation..

    I really will be amazed if Capello goes with anything other than that. It's staring him in the face.
  29. Jun 16, 2010
    #69

    peterstorey Specialist In Failure

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    ... and they are lovely beyond any singing of it.
    It's been staring him in the face for 18 months and should have trialled in friendlies.
  30. Jun 16, 2010
    #70

    Red_Jamie Full Member

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    I'll be quite simply staggered if he doesn't go with it on Friday.
  31. Jun 16, 2010
    #71

    RedSky Matt Smith's sinister twin

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    Why are we playing Rooney out of position when he scored a feck load of goals for United upfront as a single striker?

    Why do we have no wingers in the team that can deliver a decent cross when a large number of Rooneys goal this season came from headers?

    Why are we still playing Gerrard as a CB?

    Why is SWP even near the team when he has produced very little throughout his internatial carear?

    I'm still amazed that we took so many strikers when what we need is versatile wingers. Johnson and Walcott should be over there right now.
  32. Jun 18, 2010
    #72

    Raees Full Member

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    Same old indeed
  33. Jun 18, 2010
    #73

    Striker10 "Ronaldo and trophies > Manchester United football

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    Algeria are as good on the ball as Usa were. There is nothing new here. England don't have enough in midfield to dominate the ball. Heskey is shite. There are massive problems at the minute. You can win a tournament with problems but Gerrard and Lennon have provided nothing from out wide, Rooney is in no mans land, Heskey is Heskey

    There are a lot of problems and it's nothing new. You can walk the qualifying rounds to get to the world cup but England didn't play any great teams and England are so predictable it's untrue. Technically Algeria look more comfortable with the ball. It should worry people. If this was Eire, what we lack in Technique we make up for in heart and commitment. England need some of that.
  34. Jun 18, 2010
    #74

    datura Full Member

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    A substandard bag of meat and bones.
    England are a bit like France, good players but not playing as a team and relying too much on a select few individuals to produce a bit of magic.
  35. Jun 18, 2010
    #75

    Tumbling-Dice Caf Nostradamus

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    Absolutely shocking, really really bad. And I mean bad.
  36. Jun 18, 2010
    #76

    Tumbling-Dice Caf Nostradamus

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    Ireland would piss all over this England side.
  37. Jun 18, 2010
    #77

    Boss Melodramatic, attention seeking space-attacker

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    :lol:
  38. Jun 18, 2010
    #78

    Big-Red DomesticTadpole's lover + SM Season 7 winner

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    Ireland > Algeria=England(for now)
  39. Jun 18, 2010
    #79

    lem8sh Full Member

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    For the first time in ages I would really fancy our chances against them
  40. Jun 18, 2010
    #80

    olesmyhero Emmy Moses

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    Still maintain that England are the Newcastle of international football. Did really well ages ago, and think they're better and bigger than they are.

    That was a shockingly horrible game from England. They played more like it was a friendly rather than a crucial World Cup match.

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