Sell before you buy - so who is off?

Discussion in 'Transfer Forum' started by nokillingmoths, Nov 7, 2017.

  1. Nov 13, 2017

    Ace of Spades Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    1,768
    What there to be confused about, Darmian and Shaw are not goid enough and need to be sold. As for the others, they are good squad players, but we can upgrade them, it does not mean we have to sell them. Just that they are the ones that are not irreplaceable. And for the CBs, if we play with 2 CBs, then we have 7 CBs in our squad. A bit too many for that.
  2. Nov 13, 2017

    redshaw Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2015
    Messages:
    920
    We've been top and second at this stage before. The performances since Liverpool and how close the other teams are, it's going to be very tough to stay in the top three. With Pogba and Fellaini back I think we'll be stronger and of course with Lukaku, we're in a better position than previous seasons but a couple of injuries and were back to the old squad who finished 5th and 6th.

    I think we have to bite the bullet on a few players who are always going to be keeping us at 4-6th place.
  3. Nov 13, 2017

    Oneunited26 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    4,391
    The side looks like this with the holes currently

    DDG
    ?? bailly ?? ??
    matic pogba
    ?? ?? martial/rashford
    lukaku

    We do need 3 defenders, an upgrade over valencia, an all round midfielder that can walk straight into the team and compensate the loss of a pogba, and a RW we need.
  4. Nov 13, 2017

    tomaldinho1 Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Messages:
    1,906
    Last time I checked we had Bailly, Lindelof, Tuanzebe, Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Blind who can all play or cover CB. This thread is about who you would sell, not bring in, as if Smalling & Jones left I would want one player (hopefully of a higher quality) to come and supplement Bailly.

    For what it is worth, I actually think our defense is fairly average when compared to our rivals and needs an overhaul. When I watch us, I see our best attacking players having to track so deep because we don't really have an LB, our RB is a converted attacking winger and when we win the ball it's a hoof to Lukaku or short pass to Mkhi who is usually swarmed in seconds. A top RB, CB and LB would change so much for us both defensively and offensively.
  5. Nov 13, 2017

    beingshe7don Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    928
    Location:
    United States
  6. Nov 13, 2017

    el3mel Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    10,866
    Location:
    Egypt
    You want to depend on Blind, the disastrous Lindelof and a youngster like Tuanzebe during the league season ? If they both leave we'll have only Rojo and Bailly to depend on. Sorry but selling both in January is both madness.

    I don't even want to sell them in summer.
  7. Nov 14, 2017

    Fridge chutney Full Member Scouse Lover

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2016
    Messages:
    1,235
    I very clearly did not argue that we cannot buy anyone, that's a bizarre conclusion to draw from my post. I said we cannot buy everyone that we would ideally want. We are financially constrained in the transfer market, as proven this summer with not being able to reinforce full/wing back as desired by the manager. We have to deliver shareholder value and service the existing debts as per the Glazer's leveraging of the club.
  8. Nov 14, 2017

    Lentwood Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2015
    Messages:
    1,638
    Location:
    West Didsbury, Manchester
    The very first two out of the door for me would be Mata and Herrera.

    I want teams to turn up to OT and see a team of XI physical machines, 6ft+, lightning quick and highely aggressive. These two are soft touches
  9. Nov 14, 2017

    Greck Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    355
    I think it's solid financial management so we don't end up like Bacerlona. With all the average players we have on bloated salaries, it's time we took control of our wage structure. That contract we gave Lingard is still baffling. Whose idea was that
  10. Nov 14, 2017

    didierforever New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2014
    Messages:
    176
    I wish United are willing to sell Shaw.
    I also wish Chelsea buy him. Would be a decent "gamble". Still quite young, if he can get to anywhere near his pre-united level, would be a massive asset. Also, would help us massively with the Home Grown quota.
  11. Nov 14, 2017

    Kazi Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    7,307
    Location:
    Keano's Magic Hat
    Maybe you should turn up to Gillette Stadium instead
  12. Nov 14, 2017

    wolvored Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2,616
    the press are all over Fellaini and Shaw to go in January, so maybe some truth in that. I would let Darmian leave as well, and promote Tuanzebe to his defensive spot. maybe Blind and promote Mitchell to his spot. Young can also cover both left and right. Thats 3/4 players off the books in January, and Mourinho could get his winger or playmaker in. In the summer another sale could include Miki if he doesnt pick up form, Mata not a RW and doesnt get played as a CAM, and one or both of Jones too injury prone or Smalling too inconsistent. Hopefully Lindelof picks up form, and With Rojo and Tuanzebe as well as TFM coming back we should be well covered at the back. If not another top CB could be bought in..
  13. Nov 14, 2017

    Class of 63 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2017
    Messages:
    1,075
    Location:
    Back of Beyond
    Agree about the two out, but not the reason, and the problem with that is they'd almost certainly be followed out of the door by David De Gea.
  14. Nov 14, 2017

    shield Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2016
    Messages:
    514
    Yes, I think Shaw is a project which should be taken up by teams like Chelsea/City. We need someone who can slot in instantly and Shaw might need to be eased in, allowed to make mistakes.

    Don't think Mourinho is the right manager for him at the moment. Even Tottenham would be a good option. Not saying I want to get rid, but there is just too much pressure and scrutiny here. Needs to move on for his own good.
  15. Nov 14, 2017

    el3mel Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    10,866
    Location:
    Egypt
    You think Chelsea and City will allow him to make mistakes and keep playing him ?
  16. Nov 14, 2017

    tomaldinho1 Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Messages:
    1,906
    I can't remember if I replied you originally but effectively just re-read my response...

    I'm happy to see both go, if we did sell both I would expect we sign one top class CB (2 out 1 in). As I said, the thread is titled 'sell before you buy so who is off'
  17. Nov 14, 2017

    el3mel Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    10,866
    Location:
    Egypt
    It's opinions, but I don't see both, nor our whole defense as the problem at all and I don't think we should invest much in it. Better to invest more in the offensive areas which are quite poor. Smalling, Jones or Bailly, we have showed strong defensive unit and being very solid, but going forward all our problems arise.
  18. Nov 14, 2017

    rocks13 Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,390
    Location:
    Belfast
    Go and watch rugby mate.
  19. Nov 14, 2017

    devips Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2011
    Messages:
    631
    Sell all. Let the following be our first eleven :

    Ederson Mendy Stones Otamendi Walker Fernandinho Silva De Bruyine Sane Jesus Aguero.
  20. Nov 14, 2017

    shield Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2016
    Messages:
    514
    I feel they have good players in other areas of the pitch so, they don't have to depend on him playing excellent each time he is playing. He will also have less pressure on him because he won't expected to be an attacking outlet every time he is on the pitch, unlike us, where he is immediately under pressure to be an attacking outlet because we are always sitting deep and are always struggling to find options to get out of our own half.

    Again, I don't want to sell him, but I feel that it will be difficult for him to break into the starting 11, with Mourinho's strict man management. Think he needs a helping hand. Feel Poch will be best for him.
  21. Nov 14, 2017

    Kapardin Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Messages:
    2,680
    Location:
    Chennai, India
    Doesn't work that way. Did Dave agree to join Madrid only on the condition that they sign Mata and Herrera as well?

    He will be with us if we win titles. Simple as. I think he values other things more than keeping his Spanish clique together, they can always whatsapp each other.
  22. Nov 14, 2017

    el3mel Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    10,866
    Location:
    Egypt
    Not really. You're saying as if City or Chelsea will be happy to have a passenger on the field because their other players are doing the job, which isn't true imo, especially when they can put this passenger on the bench play someone who will instantly perform.

    The only Shaw will be allowed to play while doing mistakes and regaining his form will be at a midtable club. That's his next target should be and after sees what his form will lead him to. No top club will handle giving him chances while he's playing poor.
  23. Nov 14, 2017

    tomaldinho1 Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Messages:
    1,906
    This might be better in another thread but I actually think our defense is our main problem, specifically our lack our full backs/wing backs. CB wise I think we are competitive but player for player our defense is some way behind City, Chelsea and Spurs IMO.

    To be as concise as possible, we have a converted RW at RB and no quality LB (Darmian average on left, Young is converted RW, Blind average and slow). Defensively we are ok and offensively we are pretty poor. I see it like this:

    A) we have minimal attacking threat from LB (leaving our LW isolated and making him very easy to mark)
    B) we have limited attacking threat from RB (Valencia is good getting forward but his final pass/delivery has been poor for years - this problem is compounded when Mata plays RW because Valencia can't commit too far forward given Mata's lack of pace should we lose the ball)
    C) we are very vulnerable down the LB channel - when Stoke & Huddersfield target you there and come away with points you know something is wrong. Martial/Rashford are exciting attacking players but they're playing almost like defensive wingers because Mou can't trust our LB.
    D) we are ok defensively with Valencia, he sometimes gets caught out of position and isn't the strongest in the air but normally can correct mistakes with his pace (although now he is 32 that won't carry on forever)

    Our weakness at fullback basically has the knock on effect of making it so much harder for us to attack because we have less numbers going forward and our RW/LW players are usually so far back having helped our our fullbacks they have to cover an unrealistic amount of ground to catch up with a counter attack. Basically leaving Lukaku alone to try and hold off 2 or 3 players when we hoof it up to him.
  24. Nov 14, 2017

    el3mel Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    10,866
    Location:
    Egypt
    No one will disagree much about our terrible FBs but we were talking about CBs, which I think is really good, even if they don't have super stars names as the other clubs, our defensive system is great and numbers show it. Problems arise when you look at how many goals we score, though.
  25. Nov 14, 2017

    shield Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2016
    Messages:
    514
    Actually, I was making an argument assuming City/Chelsea bid for him and want him in their team. The scenario I am describing is that we put him up for sale and City/Chelsea bid for him. I think, then, if they have invested a certain sum in him, they would want to get the best out of him, and they might be able to do that, because they have a more settled team.

    I am also assuming that Shaw in normal form is a world class player and that is the reason why City/Chelsea might think of bidding for him. To me. the trick appears to be to help him reach this form, which we may struggle to do because of the state of team, with many players set to be out of contract next year, and uncertainty regarding which players Mourinho really trusts and also his strict man management methods.

    Of course, if we go by the assumption that City/Chelsea already have their FB positions settled and don't want to waste time over him, then joining a mid table club is the best option for him.
  26. Nov 14, 2017

    Class of 63 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2017
    Messages:
    1,075
    Location:
    Back of Beyond
    Most non British players that play in the Premier League admit that occasionally it's nice to switch off from the 'banter' and speak their own language, now if De Gea moved to Spain i'm guessing he'd be able to find one or two Spanish speakers in Madrid, therefore he wouldn't need Mata or Herrera to join him, could be wrong mind
  27. Nov 14, 2017

    JASR Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Messages:
    751
    Location:
    Official Redcafe Union Rep for City Posters Rights
    Supports:
    City
    Can you have a word with your fellow supporter @deafepl , as he thinks the debts aren’t real or are even Uniteds.

    Ta
  28. Nov 14, 2017

    poacher Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2017
    Messages:
    414
    Can you imagine Jose coaching these guys? It would be so funny having stones hoofing the ball down the pitch to Aguero or benching De Bruyne and Silva for lack of defensive contribution.
  29. Nov 14, 2017

    deafepl Full Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    842
    Wtf are you talking about? Sorry, I disagree with his opinions but I choose not to comment and you bring this up by mentioning my name? Pathetic City.
  30. Nov 14, 2017

    Stacks Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Messages:
    3,634
    Location:
    Fresh outta jail
    Shaw Blind Lingard = £60 mill right there add Darmian and that's £75-80 million. We can buy 2 top tier full backs for that money and we have cover as Smalling, Young, Rojo, Tony V can be back up FB's. we don't need all these wasters
  31. Nov 18, 2017

    MyOnlySolskjaer Creator of Player Performance threads

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2014
    Messages:
    10,086
    Location:
    Player Performance Threads
    I think we'd be alright letting go of a CB but I'm not sure who.
  32. Nov 18, 2017

    Flytan New Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,093
    Location:
    United States
    Jones or Smalling should be sold. If Rojo is as good as last year I mean. It's crowded if Tuanzebe is meant to play there in the future. I love Jones personally but he's glass.

    Shaw's done here. He did something Jose doesn't like and won't be given a shot. Recoup what we can.

    Next few are a bit more controversial:

    Mata - Age is catching up eventually. Has great stats but I honestly don't know how he gets them. He doesn't play 100% of the time and when he does play he disappears for halves at a time.
    Fellaini - I appreciate he's turned around his United career but I just can't bring myself to enjoy seeing the lineup when he plays.
    Herrrera - Love his passion but he's not getting a regular spot and doesn't seem to be improving either.
    Blind - Definition of a squad player. Young seems to do better at LB (and he should be a backup at most)
    Darmian - Good defensively but similar to Blind. He's a squad player. Rather give youth a shot or sign some young players there.
    Carrick - Excellent career but I'm not sure why he's taking up a squad spot atm

    Also obviously Zlatan leaves after this year so there's that.
  33. Dec 2, 2017

    Scholsey2004 Full Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,233
    Location:
    Barnsley
    Shaw; mata to arsenal on a free to take ozil's place when he leaves; blind who's a good player but isn't getting game time; Carrick;
  34. Dec 2, 2017

    Scholsey2004 Full Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,233
    Location:
    Barnsley
    Probably blind if we still count him as a cb.
  35. Dec 2, 2017

    walkinhop Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,968
    Location:
    Cyprus Hill.
    Given how some players have surged in form, do we still like Darmian as a squad player?
  36. Dec 2, 2017

    wolvored Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2,616
    I would agree with that. Obviously not all will go in January, but by the summer most if not all will be gone. I would bet we may have Herrera and Jones left, simply as no one will buy Jones due to him being injury prone, and Herrera will stay as backup.
  37. Dec 4, 2017

    Andycoleno9 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,813
    Location:
    Croatia
    Shaw and blind are off if we buy new left back. Darmian will stay because he gives jose options on both sides .
    If we buy new attacking player mikhi is off also.
    And that is it. Don't see us selling anybody else
  38. Dec 5, 2017

    giorno Full Member Scouse Lover

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2016
    Messages:
    7,201
    Supports:
    Real Madrid
    Shaw, Blind, Darmian, Mata, Mkhitaryan

    Sell all of them. Sign Ozil and if possible Goretza. Get a LB and another FB cover.

    Decide what to do about Griezmann