Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by K2K, Aug 21, 2017.
Yeah cause he could also do his job of midfielding.
Given the choice wouldn't you want players at your club who are more talented than the opposition? Not players who are more aggressive/cnuty.
Lol Ramos is one of the most talented defenders I’ve ever seen, anyone who thinks otherwise is blinded by hatred
What has that got to do with what I said?
The real question is would you take a player who's the former, but also the latter.
Would you take a prime Ramos at Arsenal right now in place of Mustafi?
Obviously. But given the choice between Ramos and someone equally as talented but not an aggressive cnut I'd take the latter every single time.
We do. Marouane Fellaini elbows people in the face every week.
And Ramos is one of the best CB’s if his generation. To think otherwise is delusion. Might not be the best at pure defending but in his prime he had much more.
Ramos is both of them things though. Why one without the other when it is all hypothetical anyway.
Are you insinuating that Ramos is on the same level as Fellaini?
Ramos is a rough/dirty player but he is extremely talented.
The Karius one was all VvD's doing, clear push by him that left Ramos with no choice, if the ref wanted to make a decision it'd have been a foul on him (which would've been a penalty against Pool) not by him, but the usual views that Scousers pick to watch doesn't include the push.
So basically when you're pushed, you automatically loose control of your elbows that magicaly always end up in the head of a player? I don't know about you but when i'm pushed and about to hit someone, i put my hands forward, not my elbows. He didn't injure Havel on purpose, he didn't injure Karius on purpose, he didn't injure Salah on purpose... Please stop sh*itting us.
There was a push, but Ramos then saw the opportunity to leave a mark by making the contact worse than it otherwise would have been. Same as the latest one, and what he often does.
Watch the actual thing, he was moving towards the goal already -like every defender does on crosses and such-, and then VvD pushed him even more, it was unavoidable, unlike the current case, or other cases for the matter, no need to generalize as we're talking about a particular case, not his career.
If Ramos is one of the best CB's of his generation, then the generation he is part of, is pure basura.
On the bolded, that's an understatement. But then again someone will tell me you shouldn't rate the defending of a CB by how many goals their defense concedes, so yeah, maybe I'm deluded thinking that great CB's lead great defenses, not fluff about the pitch with airs of leadership, rack up yellow/red cards, or score the odd goal here and there.
Marcelo is one of the best wing backs of his generation, if not the last 20 years and he can’t defend for toffee.
Ramos has been an amazing player and to argue other wise is ridiculous.
A main stay in a Real Madrid team where he helped them win more CL trophies than most clubs have won in their history.
A main stay in a Spain team thag won 2 European cups and the WC.
If he wasn’t a great player then he wouldn’t have been in the starting 11 every single game.
Ramos is a great player, by any standards, he would have been great in the 90's or whenever as well. It doesn't excuse his behaviour though.
Ah, the trophy count argument. If that's what you're going for then I'll just bow out before I use another O'Shea analogy.
You said wouldn't you want more talented players then the opposition. Kazi said Ramos is one of the most talented defenders ever.
Pretty clear response isn't it?
So somewhere in this thread I read replacing Ramos with prime Baresi wouldn't change anything.
I love the internet.
Sure, Ramos gets pushed into Karius by VVD. Still doesn't change the fact he had no need or reason to stick out his elbow like that. He's not doing it to smash him, he's doing it to protect himself, but it's excessive. He doesn't need to do it, he knows it's dangerous, and he still does it anyways
Ramos is nowhere near Baresi's level. Shame on the poster who said that.
Baresi wouldn't have scored a brace in Munich or massive goals in two CL finals
Put Baresi in your defence & you don't need those late goals
He’s been a starter for Madrid and Spain for almost 15 years .
Best centre back of this generation.
Comparing defenders to the old school of the past is pointless. It’s a different game now and he’s been at the forefront of it.
The sort of defender I’d love to see at this club.
A complete and utter prick but a natural talented defender and leader.
I don't see how this can be unintentional. The movement is quite clear imo. Ban the cnut.
Yeah, he makes far worse things every week, surprised this made the headlines.
O’Shea was never a main starter. Name one defender that played 50 games a season and won what Ramos has. He is a big game player as well.
The guy is delusional. Anyone that doesn’t think Ramos is a great player needs to watch football more. He has been top class for 10 years.
Neither Spain nor Madrid of the last 10 years are noted for their amazing defense though are they? Spain won everything because they had 98% possession in most games. When those midfielders got older and unable to hold onto the ball they were scored on 5 times by a shite Dutch team who couldnt put one past Costa Rica.
Real Madrid got most of their recent success because of a certain Portuguese fella scoring 17 goals a game. Now that he's left Real are fecking shite.
Ramos is obviously a good defender, but he's neither the catalyst at Spain nor at Real. He's atletic and ruthless, but one of the dumbest top players tactically Ive ever seen. The bi weekly red cards dont help him either.
Disclaimer: I think Ramos is a monumental cnut. This might ever so slightly cloud my judgement.
That elbow is very subtle. Over the years he has become an expert.
He is still very nervous and the press is attacking him for everything.
The best thing that can happen is to get injured for a month.
Guys, out of curiosity, how many games have you seen of Baresi? can you share some link with full games?
Ramos is a coward; he chooses easy targets. Let's see him elbow Roy Keane. He wouldn't dare. This ponce looks at himself in the mirror at least 5 times before he steps out of the house.
This statement has been around so much, but I'm confused, why do you think he's a leader?
There are numerous times where great/very good United teams with very good defenders have conceded 4/5 goals in a game though. Using one game as your example of the Spain team conceding lots is silly.
Zidane leaving has clearly effected the squad more than Ronaldo leaving. We may see Real become very good again with their new manager.
I know it was only Plzen but Real scored 5 last night and they probably wouldn’t have scored many more with Ronaldo playing. He was dreadful for the first 4 months of last season and they didn’t do too badly.
The biggest reason is likely due to the big goals he’s scored in big matches, especially when Real have needed it the most. You also can’t accuse him of hiding when the going gets tough. Plus, any player who’s captained his club to three straight CL titles will likely be deemed to be a great leader, whether rightly or wrongly. I obviously can’t speak much for his general day to day actions, how he conducts himself in the dressing room, off the pitch stuff, etc.
On the other hand, the many red cards he receives and rash actions on the pitch which put his team at a disadvantage point to poor leadership habits as well. Not to mention the bits of petulance he his prone to display. He’s a talented footballer though, no doubt about that.
The fact of the matter is our defence is made up by 3 midfielders and only one true defender. When we signed sergio ramos, sacchi(our df at the time) told florentino that going forward he would becomea top DM. And that is effectively what he is. Except football has evolved to a point were the classic DMs from the 90s early 00s are now asked to play CB for the most part. Bonucci is another one, just yersterday Capello said the same thing about him. Our defence is not particularly good at defending, but it's phenomenal at attacking, to the point that our playong style under Zidane was built on it
Denying his class is pointless IMO. He's definitely a great player and among the best defenders of his generation. I remember when Pep took over Barcelona, Pique looked miles ahead of Ramos but nowadays you have to say that Ramos definitely got the better of him. Especially his passing game has improved a lot. And he wasn't always as ruthless in his tacklings and duels as in the past 5 years - before he became a CB he was a totally different player with completely different strenthes. Quite amazing.
He's still one of the dirtiest players I've seen, though. Just a real prick with extreme double standards and elbow mentality. If his behaviour on the pitch reflects his off the pitch personality, even if it is only a glimpse, he's definitely noone you like to have around. Pepe was dirtier when he was in the mood but Ramos did things like that far more often and risked injuries of his opponents countless times by now.
@carvajal there shoul be plenty of games online, especially Champions League or World Cup games. The milan-Real Madrid games from '89 shouldbe easy to find. A famous joke about Baresi was that linesmen didn't look at the ball or the line to decide whether a player was offside, they looked at Baresi: if Baresi had his arm raised, that meant it was offside so they should raise the flag
You mean the famous Sacchi team who won 5:0 at the Bernabéu? They were ahead of their time. A bit like Lobabovsky Dynamo but with totally different players and financial might.
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