1. We've added a new Women's Team sub-forum to discuss all things related to the new United Women's Team.

    Also, the FCUoM forum has been closed due to inactivity, with its threads moved to the Football Forum. To discuss FCUoM and Salford City moving forward, please use this sticky thread.
    Dismiss Notice

Serie A 90's Draft Round 1 - Tuppet vs Gio/Theon

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by 2mufc0, Jan 28, 2018.

?

Who would win in the following draft game with all players at their Serie A 90's peak?

Poll closed Jan 29, 2018.
  1. Team Tuppet

    48.8%
  2. Team Gio/Theon

    51.2%
  1. Jan 28, 2018
    #1

    2mufc0 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    7,859
    PLEASE READ BEFORE VOTING: voting should be based on player performances in Serie A/Coppa Italia from the 90/91 season to 99/00. Performances outside this timeframe or other competitions do not count.


    TEAM TUPPET

    [​IMG]

    VS

    TEAM GIO/THEON

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    TUPPET TACTICS

    We are playing in a lopsided 4-2-3-1 formation and will be looking to play direct & attacking football. The 3 behind the striker are all versatile players, comfortable over any attacking position in center or wide areas. The idea is to get compact through center while defending and then spread out quickly on a counter attack. This is helped by work rate of Gullit & Hassler.

    My midfield 2 of Berti-Tommasi provides a solid platform for attacker to work and Scifo as the playmaker of the team should benefit greatly from so many hard working, technical runners around him.

    My defense is the usual 4 person defense with attacking fullbacks (Brehme more attacking than Petrescu) and a world class CB combo through center backed by a fantastic goal keeper. Blanc is my ball playing defender and provides a great outball from deep.

    More expended detail on players and their roles -

    Attack

    Voller is playing as traditional number 9, nicknamed by Roma fans il tedesco volante" ("the flying German") he would primarily use his experience, pace & finishing to pin opposition CB back. We're using him in his 90-91 season when he won Copa Itallia with Roma, reached UEFA cup final and finished as their top scorer.

    Gullit is playing as a Second Striker from left side, supporting Voller in goal scoring duties. On average he'd be starting higher than Hassler on the other wing but he'll drop deep while defending and use his unmatched physicality and heading prowess while attacking, cutting in on his favored right foot. His fantastic heading is crucial for us to make full use of crossing of Brehme, Hassler & Petrescu. Even though its post-injury Gullit he was still a world class player and is one of the best attacker in the draft. He was an essential part of the Capello's Milan starting 52 times in the league in two seasons of winning back to back serie A in 91 & 92. He than proved his class again by leading Sampdoria to Coppa Italia & a 3rd place Serie A finish in 94 as their top scorer.

    Hassler was one of the finest midfielder in the 90s and is in bang in the middle of his peak here. He'll be playing as a right sided attacking midfielder role and would help in playmaking duties. He would also be helping in the midfield when required with his non stop work rate. He is my main source of width on the right side and I am hoping for him to dominate that flank. He was a very good dribbler and had a great cross on him. We're using him in his 91-94 Roma stint where he reached to Coppa Italia final and came third in world player of the year ratings.

    Midfield

    Enzo Scifo is my primary playmaker.
    He was a classic old school playmaker in Rivera mode with tons of flair and skill, accurate passing, great vision and a good shot. Surrounded by hard working, technical player my hope is that he would make up for his lack of defensive work rate by providing great passes to my attacking trio. We're using him in his Torino Stint where he won Coppa Italia in 92-93 and reached UEFA cup final in 91-92.

    Nicola Berti would be my B2B midfielder, providing some steel and tough tackling to my midfield. Berti was a complete midfielder and was one of the lynchpin of early 90s very successful Inter Milan side, winning UEFA cup 2 times in 92 & 94, scoring in both finals. His role here is to roam around and win the ball. He was a very good passer, had a great shot on him & was technically proficient and should mesh well with the likes of Gullit, Scifo and Hassler. He also won Inter player of the year in 94.

    Damiano Tommasi is my holding midfielder. While not one of the biggest name he is exactly the kind of work horse required to balance my midfield and provide a solid platform for my attacking players. Tommasi was quick, strong, tenacious & hardworking, could play as DM, CM or CB, possessed good technique and was an accurate passer. He won Serie A & Pallone d'Argento in 2000-01 season and manager Capello labeled him as team's most important player.

    Defense

    Brehme is my left back and is primary width provider on the left side for my team. He is probably the best crosser on the field and is given complete freedom to attack. His crosses with Voller & Gullit's heading should be a good attacking route for my team.

    Petrescu is slightly less attacking on the right side. Peterescu was exceptional in both defence and attack on the right . 95 international caps tells it's own story about Dan Petrescu, one of Romania's finest ever footballers. Rose to prominence in Serie A in that absolutely mental Foggia team under the tutelage of Zdeněk Zeman, Petrescu also played for Genoa in Italy during the decade. To add to his 95 international caps, Petrescu also played in four major International tournaments during the draft's timeframe.

    Laurent Blanc is my ball playing CB. He was already named Europe's best CB in 98 & 99 when he was signed by Inter milan, where he continued his superb form and was named Inter's player of the year for year 2000.

    Luigi Appolini would be my stopper CB to form a solid partnership with Blanc. Appolini in 90s was one of the many victims of Italy's riches in defensive positions. Still he did manage to play in the 94 final where he kept clean sheet along with Baresi only to lose on penalties. In league Appolini was a rock for Parma throughout the 90s. Winning Coppa Italia 2 times and the UEFA cup two times.

    Michael Konsel rounds off the defense as a world class GK. Considered to be one of the greatest Austrian goalkeepers of all time (having been elected the third-best Austrian Goalkeeper of the 20th Century). one of Roma's best ever goalkeepers, Konsel was a consistent and efficient goalkeeper, who stood out for his shot-stopping ability and longevity throughout his career. Nicknamed the panther, he possessed good reflexes and, having played both as midfielder & defender in his youth, was also known for his ability with the ball at his feet, as well as his speed and adeptness when coming off his line to collect crosses or when rushing out to anticipate opponents.

    GIO/THEON TACTICS

    DEFENCE

    The defence is built around two of the meanest units in 90's Serie A - Baresi's Milan unquestionably remain the gold standard for defending during the era and unsurprisingly recorded the best defensive record across the decade (15 goals conceded in 93/94), but just as impressive was the Torino defence in 91/92 led Cravero which conceded just 20 goals - the second best defensive record in the entire decade.

    Given those credentials its no surprise that the heart of the defence contains three of the highest peaks in the draft- with the central trio rated the 1st, 2nd and 3rd best performers (in any position) during the 90/91 season:

    Serie A 1990/91: highest rated players
    [​IMG]

    Reuniting the impregnable Zenga-Baresi axis from Italia '90, Zenga's three IFFHS World Goalkeeper of the Year awards mark him out as one of the finest keepers in the pool. On the left is Luigi De Agostino, who was also part of that famous Italian World Cup '90 defence, and whose energetic presence replaced Antonio Cabrini down the left for Juventus and Italy. To the right is Cravero's partner in crime Pasquale Bruno, whose physicality and relentlessly ruthless defending was an important part of that great Torino side.

    MIDFIELD

    We expect the all-conquering Juventus partnership of Didier Deschamps (highest rated midfielder in 96/97) and Paulo Sousa (Serie A Player of the Year in 94/95, third highest rated midfielder in Europe) to take meaningful control of the midfield - both fit the theme to a tee, playing their best football in the era and forming one of the most complimentary pairings of the decade.

    To their right Mazinho replicates his hybrid CM-RM role which he performed for distinction with Brazil (winning the World Cup in '94) and Lecce and Fiorentina during the early '90s. The trio is packed with physicality and defensive solidity - as well as cultured distribution from the technically excellent Sousa.

    ATTACK

    Linking the midfield is Roma legend Guiseppe Giannini, a superb technician and playmaker who captained the side as the talismanic #10 figurehead prior to the rise of Francesco Totti. With his work-ethic Giannini was comfortable playing across the midfield and will contribute to both phases of the game, but primarily he will move into pockets of space to thread balls through to the electric Ruben Sosa and George Weah spearheading the attack.

    Sosa and Weah were all-round attackers who both hit their peaks in 90's Serie A - Sosa smashing in 20 strikes in 28 games in 92/93, and Weah securing a Ballon D'Or and FIFA World Player of the Year in 94/95. With their electric pace both players are lethal on the counter attack (something Weah performed for Milan with huge success) and both fit the formation given their ability to roam wide and penetrate through the channels.

    WHY WE WILL WIN
    • Far better goalkeeper - The difference in quality between three-time IFFHS Goalkeeper of the Year winner Zenga and a 35-37-year-old Konsel couldn't be wider.
    • Midfield superiority - Although Berti is a solid campaigner, Tommasi's peak (if he starts) is arguably 01/03. By contrast, we have Deschamps, Sousa and Mazinho who reached some of the highest peaks in the whole of 90's Serie A. Given the calibre of the supporting cast, the deep-lying playmaking of Sousa should be too hot to handle and should provide the foundation for midfield control.
    • Ability to contain - As leaders of the two meanest defences in all of 90's Serie A, Baresi and Cravero can weather their way out of any storm - particularly with the likes of Deschamps patrolling the middle of the park.
    • Ability to counter - On the break Sosa and Weah are explosive and likely to burn past Apolloni and Blanc with their pace and sheer power - Weah became the best player in the world doing just this in a counter-attacking Milan side and he's as likely as anyone on the park to make the difference.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  2. Jan 28, 2018
    #2

    2mufc0 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    7,859
  3. Jan 28, 2018
    #3

    harms Full Member Scout

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages:
    13,098
    Location:
    Moscow
    Irrelevant?
  4. Jan 28, 2018
    #4

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    14,838
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
  5. Jan 28, 2018
    #5

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    14,838
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    [​IMG]


    WALTER ZENGA

    Deltaplano - hang-glider - was widely regarded as the world's best keeper in the late 1980s and early 1990s.
    • IFFHS World Goalkeeper of the Year 1989, 1990 and 1991
    • 2nd highest rated player in Serie A 1990/91 and 9th highest rated in 1992/93
    • Serie A title winner in 1990/91
    LUIGI DE AGOSTINI
    The swashbuckling left wing-back who first replaced Antonio Cabrini at Juventus, and after 150 games for the Old Lady, was headhunted by Inter to fill the gifted boots of Andreas Brehme. Excellent going forward (see his strike v Napoli below from 90/91) with typical Italian defensive resoluteness (often deployed at centre-half). Despite competing with Maldini and Cabrini for a spot in the national team, he managed to secure 36 caps. And at Italia '90 he forced his way into the most stacked defence of all-time, alongside Baresi, Maldini et al.

    FRANCO BARESI
    The greatest defender of all time whose immaculate reading of the game frequently silenced a generation of legendary strikers.
    • From 1987-1996, Baresi was in the top 3 rated players in the league 8 times out of 10.
    • Led a defence which conceded just 15 goals in 1993/94 and could afford to net just 36 times to win the title.
    • Serie A winner 1991–92, 1992–93, 1993–94, 1995–96
    ROBERTO CRAVERO
    Following Baresi's Milan in holding the meanest defensive records the league saw during the decade was Cravero's Torino back four of 1991/92 that let in a mere 20 goals all year. Not that he was just a one-season wonder, the campaign before having the third highest average rating - behind that man Baresi again and his other defensive partner here Zenga. Read the game brilliantly and dominated in the air. Almost 15 years of service for Il Toro make him a club legend, and he had a tidy spell with Zoff's Lazio too.

    PASQUALE BRUNO
    Uncompromising defender who, along with Cravero, was the cornerstone of that great Torino defence. Tenacious man-marker who took no prisoners, he was particularly strong in the air and matched up well against physical attackers.
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  6. Jan 28, 2018
    #6

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    14,838
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    [​IMG]

    DIDIER DESCHAMPS
    Serial winner who was the bedrock behind the relentless Juventus midfield that dominated the league in the second half of the decade. Was deployed as the energetic LCM next to Sousa in 1994-96.
    • Serie A title winner 1994/95, 1996/97 and 1997/98
    • Coppa Italia and Supercoppa winner in 1995 (x2) and 1997
    • Highest rated outfield player in Serie A in 1996/97
    PAULO SOUSA
    The classic continental no6 who worked tirelessly off the ball but was consistently classy on it. Formed an unbeatable central midfield partnership with Deschamps that won the Serie A in 1994/95 and the Champions League in 1995/96. But for injuries curtailing his time at the top his legacy would have been far greater.
    • Guerin D'Oro Serie A Player of the Year winner 1994/95
    • Serie A title winner 1994/95
    MAZINHO
    Another balanced all-rounder who married technical quality with clever positioning and ability to cover in different positions. Gifted enough to get one of the creative spots in the 1994 World Cup winning Brazil team, operating as the narrow right-sided midfielder. At Lecce and Fiorentina he played as the right central midfielder in four-man midfields, shining particularly for his composure in possession.
    • 2nd highest rated midfielder in Serie A in 1990/91

    [​IMG]

    GIUSEPPE GIANNINI
    Totti before Totti. Turned down Milan to sign for Roma and stayed there until his 30s knocking back the advances of Juventus and Milan again.
    RUBEN SOSA
    Ahead of Il Principe is El Principito. The pocket dynamo and his thumping left peg bludgeoned Serie A defences in the early 1990s. Complete and multi-faceted forward who boasted an impressive scoring record at first Lazio and then, once the Germans had sacked it in '92, Inter, where he exploded with a memorable season.
    • Serie A 1992/93 highest rated player
    • Serie A 1992/93 - 28 games, 20 goals
    • Serie A 1993/94 - 28 games, 16 goals
    • UEFA Cup Winner 1993/94

    GEORGE WEAH
    All-round forward who was a force of nature during his peak at Milan. Explosive both when dropping deep to run at bamboozled defenders and explosive when bursting clear of the rapidly-disappearing-into-the-distance defensive line.
    • FIFA World Player of the Year: 1995
    • Ballon d'Or: 1995
    • Onze d'Or: 1995
    • FIFA World Player of the Year – Silver award: 1996
    • Onze d'Argent: 1996
    • African Footballer of the Year: 1989, 1994, 1995
    • IFFHS African Player of the Century: 1996
    • FIFA XI: 1991, 1996, 1997, 1998
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  7. Jan 28, 2018
    #7

    Moby Dick

    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Messages:
    31,953
    Location:
    Nicki Minaj's Secret Bedroom
    Not sure about Deschamps in that left sided gig - for me he's bang on as the holding midfielder in the middle. Not sure if he had the mobility and dynamist to provide what is required in that area.
  8. Jan 28, 2018
    #8

    2mufc0 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    7,859
    Yup.
  9. Jan 28, 2018
    #9

    idmanager Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    2,272
    Would have exchanged Scifo and Hassler.
  10. Jan 28, 2018
    #10

    harms Full Member Scout

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages:
    13,098
    Location:
    Moscow
    No way! Why? Hassler is exactly where he should be, same as Scifo.
  11. Jan 28, 2018
    #11

    idmanager Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    2,272
    Scifo was very good on the right as well and would have complimented much better with Petrescu overlapping IMO.

    Gullit could have been more central then with Hassler on the right of a 4-3-3.

    Makes it more balanced IMO, but then again, this is not all that bad too.

    Guess down to personal preferences. Great team individually nonetheless.
  12. Jan 28, 2018
    #12

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    14,838
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    Would have had the same reaction to be fair before researching Juve and particularly how they set up with him and Paulo Sousa. This is from the 95/96 Champions League final and was an accurate reflection of how their midfield was set up as a three that season.

    [​IMG]

    Deschamps was energetic and purposeful in a left/central-sided box-to-box role through that campaign.
  13. Jan 28, 2018
    #13

    Moby Dick

    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Messages:
    31,953
    Location:
    Nicki Minaj's Secret Bedroom
    That's a good spot. Clears it up.
  14. Jan 28, 2018
    #14

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    14,838
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    First thoughts would be that I'm not convinced that a Berti/Tommasi partnership has what it takes to hold the midfield against Giuseppe Giannini. Generally I would have thought that Tommasi played his best football in the early 2000s, in particular that Scudetto-winning 2000/01 campaign. And while an off-peak performance portfolio could be fine in a less critical role, it's perhaps a big ask to hold the midfield and keep tabs on the great Giannini. Even moreso when Giannini has such a sturdy platform to shine from.

    Giannini's legendary status in Rome is through the roof. Not many creative players from this era get this sort of adoration:



    What he brings to the table here is:
    • A nimble-footed elegance, dancing around challenges, to slip in a willing striker
    • The vision to spot the early ball in behind
    • Threat of thumping one in from the edge of the area
  15. Jan 28, 2018
    #15

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    14,838
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    Another area I see Giannini getting joy is up against Nicola Berti. I should say I'm a big fan of Berti, particularly as a side-kick for Matthaus in the late 80s for Inter. But his performances in Serie A in the 1990s were somewhat underwhelming:

    [​IMG]

    Those ratings don't paint a positive picture at all. His late 80s ratings were a hell of a lot better, but they're out of scope.

    Ultimately that central midfield partnership might struggle to get to grips with this game against the legendary Giannini, Paulo Sousa (Serie A Player of the Year), Didier Deschamps (triple title winner and highest rated midfielder in 1996/97) and Mazinho (second highest rated midfielder in 1990/91). All proven players with compelling performances within the timeframe.
  16. Jan 28, 2018
    #16

    sincher "I will cry if Rooney leaves"

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2004
    Messages:
    23,448
    Location:
    YSC
    In a match worthy of any final, it was the seventies porno attack of Ruud and Rudi that won this in the end. The finest taches won out. Well played Tuppet, winning despite setting up deliberately as 'lopsided' is quite a feat.

    Gio's Jerkoffs can feel proud of their performance, and surely have the best attack of anyone knocked out in this round. Weah and Sosa were a force to be reckoned with and troubled Blanc and Apolloni throughout. Fortunately for Tuppet this was Blanc back when he could run a bit, not the fairly shit version that rolled out for MUFC many years later (oh but never mind, genius move to bring him in, look at his influence on other players, no way Jonny Evans would have done that turn yesterday if not for Laurent, and we'll forget all about the bit where he didn't clear the ball and let a goal in eh?)

    Sorry, I digress. Anyway the Jerkoffs took the lead when Weah broke through and twatted it past Megadrive. The Germans were not having that though, Andy Brehme charged up the field, taking out Mazinho and Bruno and spanking a cross in for Voller. 1-1 in the early stages, and a bit of spice brewing. At this point, Mazinho, perhaps aware of being football's equivalent of Desert Orchid and thinking about what he could buy himself by selling his considerably valuable footy stud spunk, was caught wanking about in midfield and gave the ball away. Deschamps tried to remedy the situation but his water carrying skills were not enough to stop Scifo exchanging passes with Gullit and curling one in from distance. Princely stuff, 2-1 to Tuppet's Teewats.

    Still there was plenty of hope for the Jerkoffs, with Sousa easily outclassing the famously average Berti in midfield and it was his pass that put Sosa in for the equaliser just before halfies.

    In the second half, dead balls were proving a real problem not just for Mazinho but for the rest of the Jerkoffs. Not only was their running restricted by them but Brehme and Hassler were a real threat from them, and finally they regained the lead when Hassler's floated delivery from the right side was nutted in by Gullit.

    It was nip and tuck after that, with Giannini having the best of his battle with Tommasi but Scifo toying with diddy Deschamps. But it was Brehme on the left who made the breakthrough. Bruno just couldn't cope with him and Cravero came across to help but ended up way out of position. Brehme played a simple ball into Voller for the 4th. Well in Teewats. 4-2.

    Poor Jerkoffs. Lots in the tank but not enough in the bank. The Teewats look good for a run, though they will clearly be looking for some reinforcement in midfield.
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  17. Jan 28, 2018
    #17

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    14,838
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    Voller and Gullit - myth or reality?

    Hell of a pairing on paper. Or on the cover of sincher's 70s porno collection. But I'd argue both were past their best by the 1990s. Gullit clearly hit his peak around 87-89 when he was winning the Ballon D'Or and at his awesome physical peak. But post-1990 his goal return is a bit average and he netted 7 times a season in each of 90/91, 91/92 and 92/93. And by that point he was no longer the undisputed first choice he was when at the top of his game. Bounced back well having that Indian summer at Sampdoria, but fundamentally his peak was the late 1980s.

    Same for Voller really. Just two seasons in Serie A so you'd hope they were both strong. His first campaign was steady with 11 in 30, but his second and final season he only managed a mere 7 in 30 games again. So that's 18 goals over 60 games, which even accounting for the tougher defences of the era, was pretty poor by the standards he set for himself in the 1980s.

    And it's not as if there's anyone else in the team capable of hitting double figures in a season. It all looks a bit powderpuff against a Baresi-led defence no less.
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  18. Jan 28, 2018
    #18

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    14,838
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    And if you want to compare the respective attacking threats:

    Sosa:
    1990/91: 33 / 11
    1991/92: 30 / 13
    1992/93: 28 / 20
    1993/94: 28 / 16

    Weah wasn't exactly famous for heavy goalscoring but even his record trumps anything on the park bar Sosa:
    1995/96: 26 / 11
    1996/97: 28 / 13
    1997/98: 24 / 10
  19. Jan 28, 2018
    #19

    sincher "I will cry if Rooney leaves"

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2004
    Messages:
    23,448
    Location:
    YSC
    Another 'peak' conversation, dull as feck. Anyway you have a point about Voller but not at all about Gullit, who was never a striker and was amazing in the early 90s.
  20. Jan 28, 2018
    #20

    Theon Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    12,043
    Meh, peak is the whole point of the draft so it's bound to come up (even though it may indeed be a touch dull).

    Gullit and Voller are fantastic names but both performed best outside of 90's Serie A which is what this draft is based on. In terms of Gullit he's obviously the biggest name on the park (along with Baresi) and whilst he was still excellent in his latter years in both Italy and England, we're talking a whole four seasons since 86/87 when he won the Ballon d'Or (or three since he tore up Euro '88).

    It's definitely relevant, particularly when you have another Ballon d'Or winner on the opposition who won the award during the timeframe.
  21. Jan 28, 2018
    #21

    oneniltothearsenal Arse Lover

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2013
    Messages:
    4,536
    Supports:
    Brazil, Arsenal,LA Aztecs
    Hmm, if Tuppet were to win, then I'd say it was because the Gullit-Brehme flank is decisive. I can see that flank giving Mazinho-Bruno no end of trouble. I've never been a fan of Ruben Sosa but I reckon he fits Giannini and the tactic well. Don't really see Sosa and Weah working particularly well though. Hard to call for me, will have to think more on this one.
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  22. Jan 28, 2018
    #22

    Tuppet Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Messages:
    3,377
    Location:
    West Coast
    Thanks, Same to you mate.
  23. Jan 28, 2018
    #23

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    14,838
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    A couple of points.
    1. Gullit-Brehme is a great flank, but we need to caveat that both players' best football came in the late 1980s. Brehme's best Inter seasons were early on and progressively got poorer. He did well enough in 90/91, but looked his age in 91/92. In fact Mazinho's performances for Lecce were higher rated than what Brehme managed in the decade, but one has an incredible reputation and the other was a 12th round pick.
    2. Mazinho and Bruno were chosen ahead of other players in the squad for this specific job. Mazinho's ability to cover out wide and play at full-back was critical in defending against an attacking full-back like Brehme. Bruno himself has the physicality and strength to match up well to Gullit, while Cravero would always be on hand to cover behind if required (and himself has strength in the air and matches up reasonably well).
  24. Jan 28, 2018
    #24

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    14,838
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    [​IMG]

    FRANCO BARESI

    In a Serie A draft there's arguably no player who defined the era more than Franco Baresi - leader and captain of the great AC Milan side of the late 80s early 90s who was voted the Serie A Player of the Century in 2000

    With a robust and dominant midfield in front him (featuring an all-conquering Juventus partnership which lifted domestic and European trophies) Baresi looks well set to hold the fort against the opposition attack.​

    AC Milan 1977-97
    719 apps - 6 Serie A - 3 European Cup​

    It is hardly controversial to call Baresi the most complete – and perhaps even the best – defender of all time. The greatest attacking players have the ability to manufacture time, a combination of vision and first touch affording them vital fractions of a second to compose play. If they created time, Baresi did the opposite. Such was the Italian’s masterful reading of the game, he would be first to every through ball, snuffing out danger like a psychic fireman.

    “A lot of the time, he would know what the attacker was going to do before they knew themselves,” Ruud Gullit once said of his former teammate. There is no exaggeration there for effect. Baresi had a greater anticipation and understanding of attacking strategies than perhaps any other defender in the game’s history.

    Despite that defensive excellence, Baresi’s role was at least two-fold. Within seconds of winning back the ball, he would be looking forward. Next came either the clipped pass into feet, or the run forward out of defence. With his shirt untucked over inexplicably short shorts, Baresi played the part of playmaker with consummate ease.

    It would be foolish to think that Baresi was an effortlessly polished player, however, for you don’t survive and thrive in Serie A’s 1980s without being able to handle yourself. The word ‘hard’ has become increasingly synonymous with obvious displays of aggression, but Baresi’s toughness was more understated, a latent threat. In the Milan derby of 1989, Baresi played for over an hour with a broken arm after getting a kick from Jurgen Klinsmann, Milan’s captain only revealing the true extent of his pain after the final whistle. After keeping a clean sheet, of course.

    Not content with being one of the greatest defenders, Baresi’s name has also become a byword for loyalty, the ultimate one-club man. Milan may have become the greatest team in the world under his captaincy, but he twice stayed after relegation to help the Rossoneri rebuild. The second of those Serie B campaigns came after Baresi was a (non-playing) member of Italy’s World Cup-winning squad of 1982, with the defender named Milan captain at the age of 22. Fifteen years later, as Baresi retired, he had won five Serie A titles, three European Cups and nine other domestic honours. Black, white and red all over.

    Milan’s three greatest servants run like the aorta through the club’s modern history: Gianni Rivera, Franco Baresi, Paolo Maldini. Between them, these three players spanned a 49-year period between 1960 and 2009. Not only does that account for almost half the club’s lifespan, but it covers 38 of their 47 major trophies.

    If this trio are Milan’s lifeblood, there is no doubt who belongs in the centre spot on the podium. In the eyes of the Milanese, there is only one. ‘There is only one captain, Baresi,’ is the banner still passed across the San Siro’s Curva Sud. He was, is, and always will be Milan’s greatest: Il Capitano.


  25. Jan 28, 2018
    #25

    oneniltothearsenal Arse Lover

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2013
    Messages:
    4,536
    Supports:
    Brazil, Arsenal,LA Aztecs
    What's the basis for those dbscalcio.it ratings? I think that's what you are referring to? I've never been sure where those come from.
  26. Jan 28, 2018
    #26

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    14,838
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    Average media ratings over the whole sason, probably from the different sports papers in Italy. Not a bible by any means, but useful as a guide and helpful to inject a dose of reality here and there.
  27. Jan 28, 2018
    #27

    oneniltothearsenal Arse Lover

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2013
    Messages:
    4,536
    Supports:
    Brazil, Arsenal,LA Aztecs
    Is there anything more specific? Like which papers or how many journalists are even being polled?
    I know Guerin Sportivo used to publish lists of all the journalist of dozens of papers around Europe and South America but without knowing where those ratings are exactly coming from its hard to know how much credibility to give the numbered ratings.
  28. Jan 28, 2018
    #28

    oneniltothearsenal Arse Lover

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2013
    Messages:
    4,536
    Supports:
    Brazil, Arsenal,LA Aztecs
    Ok It looks like this is the list from where they take their sources. Not sure if this would have applied in the 90s though since the site was founded in 2008

    http://www.dbscalcio.it/info.php
  29. Jan 28, 2018
    #29

    Theon Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    12,043
    I think even without resorting to media ratings it's quite well known that Brehme was not at his best in the latter period of Serie A stint. He has two eligible years in this draft and whilst 90/91 was successful, 91/92 was a poor season with Inter Milan finishing 8th place and Brehme moving to Zaragoza in the transfer window.

    I think there's quite a gulf across the teams in terms of 90's Serie A credentials, with a good proportion of Tuppet's side player their best football either prior or after the decade. In contrast I think our team hits the theme on the absolute head, but disappointingly this seems to count for very little in the score.
  30. Jan 28, 2018
    #30

    Tuppet Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Messages:
    3,377
    Location:
    West Coast
    Not sure about these ratings, but its not like Giannini was having exceptional time either, his peak was also in 80s as far as these ratings go -


    [​IMG]

    His best seasons came in 86 & 87, he also played his last Italy game in 91. He was an 80s player as much as anyone. And these ratings tend to favour attackers heavily. Take for example ratings of Gullit & Scifo -

    Gullit

    [​IMG]

    Scifo -

    [​IMG]

    According to these ratings Gullit's best ever Serie A season came in Sampdoria and Scifo performed in his Torino season better than any season of Giannini.
  31. Jan 28, 2018
    #31

    oneniltothearsenal Arse Lover

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2013
    Messages:
    4,536
    Supports:
    Brazil, Arsenal,LA Aztecs
    That's a fair point. Also why I didn't pick Bergkamp incidentally as even his best performances for Inter were in UEFA Cup whereas Sosa best was in the league.
  32. Jan 28, 2018
    #32

    Theon Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    12,043
    Bergkamp was a weird one, even though he never performed at his best for Inter I remember being gutted when he signed for Arsenal. He was clearly still an outstanding player.
  33. Jan 28, 2018
    #33

    sincher "I will cry if Rooney leaves"

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2004
    Messages:
    23,448
    Location:
    YSC
    Tuppet's Teewats don't really have a weak point, except maybe Berti the bus but even he had his qualities. Voller and Brehme might have been getting on a bit but were top class players. Even Tommasi is a smart pick, really decent. Konsel likewise. The other team is also one of the best IMO especially in attack, but Deschamps and Mazinho is a bit underwhelming and the team lacks penetration down the flanks. Quality in central defence and attack though.
  34. Jan 28, 2018
    #34

    Tuppet Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Messages:
    3,377
    Location:
    West Coast
    Also saying Gullit was not at his best in 90s is just not correct. His Sampdoria (93-94) season was his highest performing Serie A season by any metric. He played the most games in any one season (31), He scored the most goals of any one season (15) and he dragged his team to its last big title of Coppa Italia. Also there was only one season in 80s (1987-88) when he scored more goals in Serie A (9) than his most seasons in 90s, when he scored 7 goals in each season from 1990 to 93, 15 goals in 93-94 & 12 goals in 94-95. His goal scoring peak in serie A was undoubtedly in the 90s.

    Here are the full records - http://www.worldfootball.net/player_summary/ruud-gullit/ita-serie-a/2/
  35. Jan 28, 2018
    #35

    Theon Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    12,043
    That Roma team is one of my favourite of all time so I've nothing bad to say about Tommasi who was a solid player.. but both that Roma team and Tommasi peaked in the early 2000's - not in the 1990's which is what this draft is based on.

    The quality in midfield is a gulf, quite frankly. In the mid-90s Dechamps and Sousa were leading Juve to Serie A and European Cup titles, whilst also being established leaders for their national sides. Sousa was actually voted Serie A Player of the Season. It's not really comparable to a 23/24 year Tommasi.
  36. Jan 28, 2018
    #36

    Theon Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    12,043
    Just seen this edit, how on earth is Deschamps underwhelming but Tommasi a smart pick and really decent.

    Deschamps won three Serie A titles and reached three Champions League finals with Juventus. He has 103 caps for France and captained the side as he lifted the World Cup.

    That's completely mental. He's on another level to Tommasi and Berti entirely.
  37. Jan 28, 2018
    #37

    Tuppet Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Messages:
    3,377
    Location:
    West Coast
    Ruud Gullit's performance against a Baresi / Maldini led Milan, where he assisted once and scored once to get Sampdoria a 3-2 victory. Check out his brilliant cross from left wing for the assist.

  38. Jan 28, 2018
    #38

    sincher "I will cry if Rooney leaves"

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2004
    Messages:
    23,448
    Location:
    YSC
    Like how you have ignored Mazinho, an obvious weakness who's not even in the top two players in his own family.
  39. Jan 28, 2018
    #39

    sincher "I will cry if Rooney leaves"

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2004
    Messages:
    23,448
    Location:
    YSC
    Ask Cantona about Deschamps. One of those good players in great teams, never a great player in his own right. Posh man's David Batty.
  40. Jan 28, 2018
    #40

    Theon Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    12,043
    Another World Cup winner with 35 caps for Brazil. We've not sold him as anything more than he was, but he was a fine player who fit the theme and formation well.

    Of course he's no 23 year old Damiano Tommasi mind :smirk: