Serie A 90's Draft SF - harms vs Enigma_87/The Red Viper

Discussion in 'Draft Games Forum' started by 2mufc0, Feb 11, 2018.

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Who would win in the following draft game with all players at their Serie A 90's peak?

Poll closed Feb 12, 2018.
  1. Team harms

    82.1%
  2. Team Enigma_87/The Red Viper

    17.9%
  1. Feb 11, 2018
    #1

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    PLEASE READ BEFORE VOTING: voting should be based on player performances in Serie A/Coppa Italia from the 90/91 season to 99/00. Performances outside this timeframe or other competitions do not count.

    TEAM HARMS
    [​IMG]

    VS

    TEAM ENIGMA/THE RED VIPER


    [​IMG]

    HARMS TACTICS


    Inspiration:
    My team is built on the foundation of arguably the greatest team of mid-to-late 90's — Juventus side that won 3 Serie A titles and reached 3 consecutive CL finals, winning one (and would've reached the 4th one if not for Roy Keane's heroics :keano:).

    Ferrara, Montero, Davids, Del Piero were the core of that side, and the likes of Inzaghi, Iuliano and Deschamps are upgraded with GOATs in their respective positions — Luís Ronaldo (the best player in the whole draft), Lilian Thuram and Frank Rijkaard. There is only one obvious downgrade — from Zidane to Djorkaeff, but we shouldn't underestimate the latter, who often outperformed Zizou in their first years in the league (obviously not when Zidane reached his peak in 98-00), won Inter's player of the year in 1997, finished 9th and 11th in Ballon D'Or lists of 1996 and 1997 and formed a great partnership with Ronaldo in 1997/98.

    On the left I have Amedeo Carboni as a balanced left back, on the right — Diego Fuser as a side midfielder, both in their natural roles. Legends for Roma and Lazio respectively they've spent most of the 90's playing in Serie A and are exactly the kind of players that should be highlighted in this draft. Fuser's spell at Parma also saw him playing with Thuram on that right wing — another proven partnership for me, after all those Juventus guys and Ronaldo-Djorkaeff.

    In goal I have Claudio Taffarel, Brazil’s best ever keeper, one of the first bricks in the foundation of Parma’s successful 90’s. He was good enough for them to give him one of the three foreign slots: «When I arrived, my team-mates were asking for my autograph». 2 times he was voted 3rd best keeper in the world by IFFHS in his time in Serie A (I like how they've made a whole presentation about it and even made a personalised shirt "the world's third best goalkeeper" at Parma :lol:)


    Thoughts about the game itself:
    Enigma/TRV have a great team but, not to be rude, I feel that my team is simply better; makes sense, considering that I've added two of the best midfielders in the draft to my side while my opponent's team stayed the same. With this addition I'm certain that my drool-worthy front two will get enough chances to win the game for me — while my formidable defensive unit, covered by the Dutch duo, will be incredibly tough to break down.


    PLAYER PROFILES
    (Note — the time scopes and awards are only from the relevant seasons, from 90/91 to 99/00; so, for example, only 3 out of Ferrara's 7 Serie A titles would be shown. I also discarded all European trophies although there were many).
    GK — Cláudio Taffarel. Parma 1990-93, Reggiana 93/94
    Brazil's best ever keeper, he was good enough for Parma to give one out of three foreign slots to a goalkeeper. In 90/91 he kept 19 clean sheets in 34 games and was voted the world's 3rd best goalkeeper by IFFHS in 1991.
    IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper: Bronze ball 1991, 1994
    RCB — Lilian Thuram. Parma 1996-00.
    The best ever in his position — and right in the middle of his peak. His enormous success with France coincided with his spell at Parma, where he won Coppa Italia, UEFA Cup and proved himself as one of the greatest defenders of his time.
    Coppa Italia 1998/99
    Supercoppa Italiana 1999
    French Player of the year 1997
    Guerin D'Oro (Best player in Serie A) 1997
    ESM Team of the year 1998/99
    Ballon D'Or — 7th place, 1998
    CB — Ciro Ferrara. Napoli 1990-94, Juventus 1994-00
    One of the best defenders in the draft, tough as nails yet smart and elegant, he, alongside his partner in crime (sometimes literally) Paolo Montero was the foundation of the great Juventus team of the late 90's. In the words of Ryan Giggs, they were "...the toughest defenders [he] played against".
    Serie A 1994/95, 96/97, 97/98
    Supercoppa Italiana 1990, 95, 97
    Coppa Italia 1994/95
    ESM Team of the year 1996/97
    CB — Paolo Montero. Atlanta 1992-96, Juventus 1996-00
    Strong in the air, the timing of both his tackles and his fouls is invariably exquisite. His sense of positioning is what you would expect from a player for whom defending is, in this case quite literally, second nature. But he is outstanding at what he does for the same reason all people are who are outstanding at what they do. His passion for the job. He has the heart and soul of a man for whom the entire meaning of life is contained in the principle of 'no pasarán' - they shall not pass.
    Serie A 96/97, 97/98
    Supercoppa Italiana 97
    LB — Amedeo Carboni. Roma 1990-97
    Hardworking and athletic, Carboni was a brilliant left back, equally capable of defending and supporting an attack. He managed to earn 18 caps for his country despite having to fight for a place with the likes of Maldini and Benarrivo — and he when we look at his time in Serie A, we see a true Roman legend, ever-present in his 7 seasons apart from one long-term injury.
    Coppa Italia 1990/91
    CM — Frank Rijkaard. AC Milan 1990-1993
    The best defensive midfielder in history of the game and still a key part of AC Milan's team at the beginning of the 90's. Apart from 2 Serie A titles in 3 eligible seasons he also won Serie A player of the year (Guerin D'Oro) and Serie A best foreign player — both in 1992.
    Serie A 1991/92, 1992/93, runner up in 1990/91
    Supercoppa Italiana 1992
    Serie A Player of the year 1992
    Serie A Foreign player of the year 1992
    Ballon D'Or 10th in 1992
    CM — Edgar Davids. AC Milan 1996/97, Juventus 1997-2000
    After a short and unsuccessful spell at Milan he moved to Juventus, where hit the ground running — instantly becoming a key performer and retaining the title of one of the best midfielders around. Incredible engine, amazing technique — and the cool looks, of course!
    Serie A 1997/98, runner up in 1999/00
    Ballon D'Or 8th in 1998, 26th in 1999, 18th in 2000
    AM — Yuri Djorkaeff. Inter 1996-99
    One of my old favorites, he was nicknamed "The Snake" by Arsene Wenger (you never knew when he would strike). A very complete attacking midfielder — he was a great dribbler, possessed fantastic vision and was always going with something unexpected. His biggest moment at Inter was, of course, his glorious overhead goal against Roma, but the main reason why I picked him was because of his natural chemistry with Ronaldo.
    Pirata d'Oro (Internazionale Player Of The Year): 1997
    FIFA XI 1997
    Ballon D’Or 9th — 1996; 11th — 1997
    Serie A runner up 1997/98
    RM — Diego Fuser. Fiorentina 1990-91, AC Milan 1991-92, Lazio 1992-98, Parma 1998-00
    Fuser was a quick, hard-working, and energetic player, with good technique, and crossing ability, who excelled at making offensive runs down the right flank and assisting strikers with accurate crosses. A tenacious, and physically strong winger, he also possessed notable stamina, a powerful shot from distance, and was accurate from set-pieces. He's reunited with Thuram — they formed a great partnership on the right playing for Parma in the late 90's.
    Serie A 1991/92
    Coppa Italia 1997/1998, 98/99
    Supercoppa Italiana 1999
    LF — Alessandro Del Piero. Juventus 1993-00
    Unbelievable player, unbelievable talent. If you're spending your time reading some football forum, you know all about him already.
    Serie A 1994/95, 96/97, 97/98
    Supercoppa Italiana 1995, 97
    Coppa Italia 1994/95
    ESM Team of the year 1995/96, 96/97, 97/98
    Serie A Italian footballer of the year 1998
    Serie A-Top assist provider 1999/00
    Ballon D'Or — 4th in 1995 and 1996
    All-time leading scorer for Juventus
    All-time appearances for Juventus
    Italian player with the most seasons with 10 goals or more (17 seasons)
    ST — Luís Ronaldo. Inter 1997-00
    The best player in the draft, and in his 1997/98 form a strong contender for the greatest of all time striker position. Absolutely devastating at his best (and he is at his best).
    Ballon D’Or 1997
    Ballon D’Or 3rd — 1998;
    FIFA World player of the year 1997 (silver in 1998)
    Onze D’Or 1997
    Bravo award 1997
    Serie A Footballer of the year 1997/98
    Serie A Foreign footballer of the year 1997/98
    FIFA XI 1997, 1998
    Pirata d'Oro (Internazionale Player Of The Year) 1998
    Serie A Player of the decade 1997-2007
    Serie A runner up 1997/98


    ENIGMA/TRV TACTICS


    Formation:
    5-3-2/3-5-2 (fluid, lopsided), counter attacking.
    Defensive line: normal
    Style: very direct, fast tempo, interchanging positions in attack. Counter attack when possible and target opposition CB's and the space left by di Livio on the right flank.

    Player profiles and roles:
    GK: Sebastiano Rossi - One of the best keepers in the pool. He was the record holder in Serie A for the longest unbeaten run with 929 minutes to his name, only recently beaten by Buffon. Won 5 Serie A titles in the 90's and was integral part of one of the best defensive lines in history.
    LWB: Branco - Excellent going forward, whilst solid at the back, he had 3 seasons at Genoa in the early 90's topped by a great performance in 90/91 season when Genoa finished 4th - the only team unbeaten at home. The Brazilian left-back added power and devastating ability at set pieces scoring one of the goals of the season against rivals Sampdoria away.
    RWB/RM: Attilio Lombardo - The ‘bald eagle’ was one of the best Italian players of the 90s. An excellent provider from wide his delightful skills were a joy to watch and became a cult hero for Samp. He had a great engine and capable of providing in both phases - a truly top player in transition. He will be in more attacking role compared to Branco on the other side and will provide natural width from the right in attack.
    LCB: Paolo Maldini - The best defensive player on the pitch, simply put. Couple of quotes that describe him as a whole:
    "There are great players and there are world-class players. Then there are those who manage to go beyond that term. Paolo is the perfect example. He is the symbol of Milan." - del Piero
    "Paolo Maldini is the best I’ve played against." - Ronaldo Fenomeno
    "Maldini was the best and toughest defender I ever faced. He had everything: he was a complete defender, who was strong, intelligent, and an excellent man-marker." - Ibrahimovic
    "Maldini went through the entire 90 minutes without tackling. That is an art and he is the master of it. He is a great player." - Sir Alex

    RCB: Guiseppe Bergomi - one of the greatest defenders not only in the pool but also in history he was a defensive colossal - tight marker, agile, excellent in the air and a true leader on the pitch.
    CB: Riccardo Ferri - A partner in crime he formed a great partnership with Bergomi in that Inter side. Alike Bergomi he was one of the top defenders in his time, also winning 45 caps for Italy in his career, albeit the stiff competition some of the best defenders at the time. Spare defender at the back, top marker and excellent in the air. He's a great fit for id's attack.
    CM: Dunga - In the early 90's Dunga was at his physical peak, playing his trade in Italy. He will provide the defensive stability in midfield, excellent eye for a pass and high energy to combine with Matthaus and form an awesome midfield pair in the center of the park.
    CM - Lothar Matthäus - was a gargantuan footballer. The term 'complete player' is frittered around too often, but Matthäus could rightly lay claim to that. Equally adept in his own penalty box as in the opposition’s, Matthäus was a box-to-box midfielder capable of scoring numerous types of goals in the air or with either foot. He was quick, powerful, elusive and technically supreme. Matthäus played one of the best season in history from midfield in 90/91 - scoring 16 goals in Serie A and another one in the cup. Voted FIFA World Player of the Year - in 91 (not based on his WC form the year prior).
    AM: Francesco Totti - Young Francesco played both as a left winger and playmaker under Zeman. He was fast explosive and often isolated the opposition fullbacks to create numerical advantage. He won the Guerin D'Oro during that time - being the highest rated player in the league based on average ratings and then went on to become the club captain.

    The first season under Capello he was the main playmaker of the team and bang in the middle as a #10 winning the best player of the year in Serie A award in the process.

    For three seasons in a row under Zeman he was a creative force for Roma amassing close to 60 goals and assists.

    SS - Gianluca Vialli - If you’re not one of the twice-in-a-millennium talents who can do both, there is still plenty of kudos to be found in settling somewhere in the middle. To do so requires an element of a jack-of-all-trades skill set: speed, power, technique, enough height to be a focal point of an attack, not so much that your centre of gravity becomes a weakness. To be important enough to your team to be picked even when the goals dry up; then repay the faith with a finish so emphatic that it’s remembered more than a hundred tap-ins.

    If you could zoom in right to the very centre of the great-goalscorer-scorer-of-great-goals continuum, you will probably find either a bubble perm or a shiny dome. Both, at some point, have belonged to Gianluca Vialli. Top scorer in a Serie A winning side he was instrumental for the greatest Samp side in history. A scorer of great goals and a great goalscorer - Vialli had it all.

    CF - Abel Balbo - An exceptional striker, with a killer instinct in front of the goal and excellent movement to create space for others. Balbo scored 117 goals in 253 games when the league was at its absolute best defensive wise. A notoriously consistent goalscorer he'll work like a treat alongside Vialli.

    Tactics and advantages:
    Defence and keeper - We have the superior defence and keeper for this one. Our defence consists of two of the very elite defenders in the pool(and all time for that matter), alongside a proven combo in Ferri and Bergomi as a spare rugged defender at the back. Rossi is solid influence at the back and his credentials are superior than his counterpart. Lombardo and his work rate will also provide in both phases.

    Midfield - harms has reinforced well with Rijkaard and Davids and obviously that's one of the top midifleds in the pool but that is also one of our main assets as well. Matthäus and Dunga will give a proper battle in the middle of the park and we have added the highly energetic Totti to spearhead our midfield, who will add to the midfield battle, but also pull Rijkaard to the wings like he usually did for Roma creating space when in possession in the middle.

    Attack: Two of the best goalscorers in the 90's - Abel Balbo and Vialli will lead the line.Vialli will be on the move and in a free role and running into pockets whilst also finishing chances himself. Balbo is a natural goalscorer who wouldn't need many chances to make a difference up top.

    Advantages:
    Top defensive line - we have the upper hand both in terms of defensive unit and in terms of quality. Ferri/Maldini/Bergomi are at their peak incarnation providing excellent cover both in central areas and out wide. We do also have an upper hand in the GK area with Rossi holding the most games without conceding a goal in the 90's.

    Variety in attack - Our team will be a constant threat both on the wings and through the middle. We have natural width on the right with Lombardo and both Vialli and Totti providing width on the left complimenting one of the best wing backs in the pool in Branco.

    Lombardo against Carboni - I feel we have the upper hand here with Bergomi providing cover for him when we launch a counter attack.
  2. Feb 11, 2018
    #2

    2mufc0 Full Member

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  3. Feb 11, 2018
    #3

    Moby Dick who hates the homeless

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    Zona Mista is the new 352
  4. Feb 11, 2018
    #4

    Invictus Best Poster 2015 Staff

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  5. Feb 11, 2018
    #5

    Moby Dick who hates the homeless

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    You'll make Gilmar cry again.
  6. Feb 11, 2018
    #6

    Enigma_87 You know who

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  7. Feb 11, 2018
    #7

    harms Way Staff

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    Cheers, you too
  8. Feb 11, 2018
    #8

    sincher "I will cry if Rooney leaves"

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    There have been a few rounds now, in this latest draft,
    And how we have suffered, and how we have laughed
    At the weird formations, and dodgy ex-players
    From various nations, picked by all you gayers,
    And I have grown weary, I have to admit,
    Of making up matches, and all of that shit,
    Sometimes I feel like it takes far too much time,
    But at least, for the last few, they'll all be in rhyme.

    And so the first semi, I don't mean in my trousers,
    But Eejits v Selfies, the great crowd arousers.
    The Selfies come into this match so much stronger
    With Davids and Rijkaard, and Wim Jonk no longer,
    So surely they'll win, maybe the whole tournie,
    But that attack of Balbo and Vialli's quite horny,
    Who knows what will happen, or what to expect
    It is quite exciting, I'm now half-erect.
  9. Feb 11, 2018
    #9

    sincher "I will cry if Rooney leaves"

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    The first half was odd, the football quite grotty,
    Dunga marking Djorkaeff, Rijkaard marking Totti,
    Maldini was flawless, Ferrara was sure
    In harms' back three, or was it back four?
    It was just this confusion that opened the scoring,
    And thank feck for that! Before, it was boring.
    Attilio Lombardo was the one who found space
    Way before Elon Musk, with his plastic face.
    He crossed for Vialli, who smacked it past Taffarel,
    We have lift off at last! Just like Cape Canaveral.
  10. Feb 11, 2018
    #10

    Moby Dick who hates the homeless

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    :lol: This is absolutely brilliant mate.
  11. Feb 11, 2018
    #11

    Pat_Mustard Full Member

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    A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
    @sincher that is magnificent :lol:. I haven't seen rhyme of this calibre on the Caf since Plech's heyday.
  12. Feb 11, 2018
    #12

    sincher "I will cry if Rooney leaves"

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    And so thirty years before we had Space X,
    Amidst old-fashioned views of marriage and gay sex,
    Nirvana and Oasis were high in the charts,
    And Sky fecking Sports employed different old farts,
    Who would probably have shouted, at this shot from Djorkaeff,
    'Not sure it's gone in, I think we need Hawk-Eye, Jeff'
    But it didn't exist, and the goal wasn't given,
    Hard cheese on poor Youri, if only he'd driven
    The ball a bit harder, the silly French twat,
    But he didn't, so one nil at half time, and that's that.
  13. Feb 11, 2018
    #13

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    That's good prep right there :eek::houllier:
  14. Feb 11, 2018
    #14

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    Shame about the reinforcement shenanigans. I reckon Enigma/TRV would have won this in the last round, but not now.

    @harms has to stop depicting a balanced leftback as some form of Antonio Cabrini.
  15. Feb 12, 2018
    #15

    sincher "I will cry if Rooney leaves"

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    But the Selfies recovered, and 'twas no surprise,
    When that boy Ronaldo, before all the pies,
    Dribbled past Bergomi, and even Maldini,
    With the technique of Pele, and the power of Troy Deeney,
    And clipped it past Rossi, a wonderful goal!
    It looked like the Selfies were out of a hole...

    But look! Frankie Rijkaard's headbutted Matthaeus!
    And Branco has punched him! Both down to ten players!
    What sport! Oh what japes! Oh, feck me, what larks!
    What a stupid amount of exclamation marks!

    It was still just one all, with ten minutes to go,
    But now the gaps at the back were starting to show -
    Fuser skipped past Dunga, and got to the byline,
    And fed Del Piero, who might have said 'That's mine!'
    Had he not been Italian, and all of that there -
    I could Google translate it, but I don't really care -
    So yeah, 2-1 Selfies, and could they hold on?
    Could they feck! I'm not sold on
    Carboni, or frankly, the shape at the back,
    And the Eejits got level, with a massive attack
    Not from Bristol, this one, but made in Sampdoria,
    Lombardo to Vialli, and cue the euphoria
    Of the bald headed wonders combining to score!
    2-2, what a game! But what is all of this for,
    If I cannot decide who is going to win?
    Come on, uncle sinch, pick a team, fill us in!
    Which one of these teams will go through to the final?
    Could it be G Bergomi, with his face so vaginal?
    Or will it be Davids, with his silly goggles?
    It's a difficult one cnuts, in fact the mind boggles,
    But just as the ref lifted whistle to lips,
    It fell to Del Piero, who swivelled his hips,
    And sent Ricky Ferri to go cross the Mersey,
    While he smacked in the winner, and then kissed his jersey.

    It was 3-2 to Selfies, and not a bad game,
    It had drama, and swearing, and moments of shame,
    With those two sendings off, which I've told you of once,
    See you soon, for more sweet football fiction, ya cnuts.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  16. Feb 12, 2018
    #16

    Pat_Mustard Full Member

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    A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
    Even with harms winning the reinforcement round jackpot this is still a close contest. I don't really like Djorkaeff in that orchestrator role as he was so prone to drifting in and out of games. He was well capable of providing a killer pass or scoring a winning goal, but I don't remember him being a player who would control a match. In fairness, I think it's mainly the Zona Mista-looking formation graphic, and the inevitable Platini comparisons, that's making me fixate on Djorkaeff here. With that midfield, and Del Piero/Ronaldo capable of killing defences with the most minimal of service, he doesn't really need to dominate the match here. With that in mind, and chanelling my old-school @Edgar Allan Pillow here before he got obsessed with width instead, maybe this would have been a rare opportunity for a good Xmas tree?

    [​IMG]

    On Enigma/TRV, it's a testament to the quality of their initial drafting that they don't look comprehensively outclassed in any area despite the lack of upgrades. They still have an exceptionally strong defence (so why didn't they feck off and leave Baresi to us :mad:). Dunga/Matthaus can at least compete with harms' fearsome Rijkaard/Davids combo, and the presence of Totti relative to Djorkaeff tips it from rearguard action to something a bit more even. Vialli had a brilliant peak, and Balbo was one of the very best picks of the draft as a Round 7 pick, and even at this stage he doesn't look out of place. Totti/Vialli/Balbo, with Lombardo probably edging his duel with Carboni and providing good service from the right wing, is a brilliant attack in it's own right.

    I don't think my vote should count anyway, so I'll sit this out, but while I think harms' absolute top-tier quality in several positions would edge this, I think I prefer Enigma/TRV tactically, largely due to Totti vs Djorkaeff in the playmaker role.
  17. Feb 12, 2018
    #17

    harms Way Staff

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  18. Feb 12, 2018
    #18

    harms Way Staff

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  19. Feb 12, 2018
    #19

    idmanager Full Member

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    I like this to a good extent and I do feel the general idea is better than harms' current setup.
    All it needs is a Nedved in place of Fuser and its final ready. At least Carboni finally would have a role he would be suited for.

    What I don't like is Del Piero and DjorKaeff being rearranged. That I liked in the original setup more.

    [​IMG]
  20. Feb 12, 2018
    #20

    harms Way Staff

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    Have Nedved played there for Lazio at all? I've deleted their seasons review already, but he was mostly used as a left sided attacker.

    Carboni is playing the exact same role here btw.
  21. Feb 12, 2018
    #21

    idmanager Full Member

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    He played both the central and left roles and was quite free to roam about from what I have seen in the recent few days.
    For players like Nedved or Totti or Baggio for that matter, I don't like them being limited to a role they were marked on formations at the start of the game.
    Way too dynamic and versatile for that and good enough to excel based on the needs of the manager.
  22. Feb 12, 2018
    #22

    idmanager Full Member

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    At the risk of blowing the same trumpet from multiple mouths, I like him much better in a balanced flat four rather than a zona mista
  23. Feb 12, 2018
    #23

    harms Way Staff

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    It's not Zona Mista and he's not Cabrini, or Facchetti for that matter. He's more attacking than Thuram, that's it.
  24. Feb 12, 2018
    #24

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    aye a bit hasty as I didn't have much time yesterday to be honest.

    We knew it was over after the reinforcement round as 2 reinforcements compared to zero is a bit too much.

    For the record we entertained the idea of going for Zanetti and Baggio, and most likely that would've gone through but hindsight and all that..

    Congrats @harms quality team as always.
  25. Feb 12, 2018
    #25

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

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    I think Enigma and TRV absolutely nailed the drafting around turn 5-8. Each one of those picks could have been made a couple of rounds earlier and wouldn't have looked out of place.

    Harms has created a juggernaut though and may as well have had first dibs on the first round and each reinforcement pick for the barrage of impeccable quality he's amassed.
  26. Feb 12, 2018
    #26

    harms Way Staff

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    Thanks. Yeah, the handicap is ridiculous, don't think that we ever had a such unbalanced reinforcements round
  27. Feb 12, 2018
    #27

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    We needed him more than both of you :( you guys even picked up Kohler :nono:.
  28. Feb 12, 2018
    #28

    The Red Viper Full Member

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    Aye.

    Think if we had faced Harms last round, we would have defeated him.

    There were weaknesses in his team which we could have exploited.

    But after he added Rijkaard and Davids, and we couldn't add anyone, it was always going to be a impossible task.
  29. Feb 12, 2018
    #29

    Physiocrat Full Member

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    Quite probably although it's mostly due to the bloody mindedness of three of the drafters.

    That said with snake reinforcements one side would definitely have Baresi so leaving you out of the equation, are the other three sides more balanced than they would have been with the snake?
  30. Feb 12, 2018
    #30

    idmanager Full Member

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    I can understand why you don't want to call it that, but it looks exactly like one.
  31. Feb 12, 2018
    #31

    harms Way Staff

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    The arrow on Davids (and the lack of on Carboni) was exactly for the likes of you :angel:
    Plus Zona Mista is a bit more than just a lopsided 3-5-2
  32. Feb 12, 2018
    #32

    idmanager Full Member

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    Hehe okay, if you say so.