Shakhtar Donetsk - What’s the story?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Arbitrium, Feb 22, 2018.

  1. Feb 22, 2018
    #1

    Arbitrium Supposed to be taking a year off

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    https://www.google.ca/amp/www.indep...ue-joe-palmer-afc-wimbledon-a8219671.html?amp

    Came across this article and found it very intriguing.

    Shaktar have been taking scalps and providing a platform for some brilliant players for a while now. But I realized I don’t know enough about them. What was the catalyst for their turn around on the European stage? Will it last? And just what is it that’s so appealing about the Ukraine to Brazilian players on the fringes of bigger European clubs? Why Donetsk over any of the top 4 Portuguese teams?
  2. Feb 23, 2018
    #2

    GifLord The gif that keeps on giffing

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    $$$$
  3. Feb 23, 2018
    #3

    BarcaSpurs Full Member

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    Theyve had some brilliant teams with brilliant players in the last 10 years

    Srna, Fernandinho, Mhiki, Alex Texeira, Willian, Douglas Costa, Eduardo and now Bernard, Fred etc
    If it wasn't for their winter break i think they could have made a CL semi at some point. Shame we never get to see them at their best at this time of year.
  4. Feb 23, 2018
    #4

    Arbitrium Supposed to be taking a year off

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    But why?
  5. Feb 23, 2018
    #5

    Nick7 Full Member

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    Brazilian players are absolutely everywhere. Iran, Ukraine, Russia, everywhere. For Shakhtar, they're one of the biggest sides in Ukraine, nearly always in the Champions League, great for a player getting into the shop window. Once anothrr team meets the valuation they don't seem to make it hard for the players to leave either. They let them go, no fuss, and sign up another talented player to take his place. Look at the successful players that have left then and gone to do well, Fernandinho, Willian, Douglas Costa is just a few recent ones. Looks good for prospective players going in.
  6. Feb 23, 2018
    #6

    17 Van der Gouw biffa bin

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    Because they're owned by Rinat Akhmetov - a Ukrainian multi billionaire who bought the club he supported as a project. He's also the club president, the last guy was killed in a mysterious bombing.
  7. Feb 23, 2018
    #7

    Arbitrium Supposed to be taking a year off

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    Ahh, so there’s some potential conspiracy around it, interesting!
  8. Feb 23, 2018
    #8

    Demyanenko_square_jaw Full Member

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    The success they have had over the past two decades is mainly down to Akhmetov's money which allowed them to compete domestically with Kiev, a smart, well focused scouting system based on picking up good Brazilian players that had maybe been overlooked by Spanish\Portuguese clubs and tactical continuity from keeping one good manager long-term in Mircea Lucescu.

    I can't really say for sure why Brazilian players would choose them in particular. Initially i imagine it was just the money, but eventually i guess they built up a reputation as a reliable place to go as a first step into Euro football that could also give players EL\CL experience. A lot of these guys are very tough mentally and have a "have boots, will travel and play anwhere" mentality, they don't care that Ukrainian league isn't a top league if it can serve a useful purpose for a while. You can often see a big difference in mental toughness between a lot of the Shakhtar Brazilians and the Ukrainian talent that may be just as good as them when playing in their home league, but don't tend to have the same drive for improving and often struggle to adapt when they do challenge themselves in a tougher league. You can see this right now if you compare players like Willian and Fernandinho to Konoplyanka and Yarmolenko.
  9. Feb 23, 2018
    #9

    bebeanderson Banned

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    They have gas money, Brazilians go there for money, of course.

    The advantage point they have with other teams that buy from here is that they have a history of selling to big clubs like Barca and Chelsea, the players go there knowning that if they work hard, they can get to the big destination.

    Also, in Brazil we have a lot of unprofessional players who force their way out of situations they don't like (too cold, agent whispering in their ears etc). But Shakhtar has the advantage of the 'iron fist' owner; they hardly ever loan out a player or give up on them because of a tantrum. So players basically are forced to stay and, you are left with nothing but playing/training your way into a better situation. Look at Bernard, who was feuding with them a while ago, and now is doing well. Whilst some Russian teams, Kyiv or others overreact to tantrums and loan them back to Brazil at the slightest demand, etc. As a Brazilian, I think Shakhtar is actually a great service to our football in that sense, maturing our raw talent and a lot of them help the national team.
  10. Feb 23, 2018
    #10

    RooneyLegend Full Member

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    They buy second rate Brazilian talents who they can afford easily because they are a consistent CL club. Since they started this buy Brazil only concept it's really paid off for them. They also make lots of money in the market cause of the sales they generate with these players. Why a player would chose to go there? They are prioritized. They'll get to join a lot of mates and play football the way they want to play.
  11. Feb 23, 2018
    #11

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

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    They're a good destination because they're a proven destination with higher wages than Portugal.

    Will it last? It's been lasting for a while. Their Croatian captain (who's currently banned for doping) has played 136 games in Europe for them. Sometimes it's the Europa League (they won the last UEFA Cup) because they do have to compete with Dynamo Kyiv at home for the automatic CL qualification but when they do make the CL they often finish 2nd. In the last 10 years they've been in the group stage 8 times and failed twice in the playoffs.

    4 of their Brazilians and Ferreyra (Argentinian) are in their 5th season with the club. 2 other Brazilians have been there 2 seasons longer. I'm guessing the club has a good atmosphere because players stay a long time there and only seem to move for big money when big teams come calling.
  12. Feb 23, 2018
    #12

    SCP Full Member

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    Not entirely true, unless everything bellow Neymar is second rate Brazilian talent, reality is they have top scouts in Brazil, longtime financial support from their President, remember they had a Portuguese director of scouting related with Brazil, who is now at Porto, Luis Gonçalves, who was responsible in signing players like Falcão for Porto, before he went to Shaktar.

    I can't post everything here because it is in portuguese but I will translate this " Luis Gonçalves continued to focus on the Brazilian market, although he did not properly discovered unknown or cheap talents. Taison, Fred, Fernando or Bernard involved considerable investments, with the curiosity that Shakhtar "diverted" Bernard from FC Porto in 2013 in a deal of 25 million euros."
  13. Feb 24, 2018
    #13

    RooneyLegend Full Member

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    Well, it's below premium talent. They don't buy or compete for the high end talents that develop big reputations due to international youth tournaments and there early years in top level Brazilian football. Bernard is the closest they got to a big name signing and that was a anomaly if anything. The don't sign the likes of Lucas, Oscar, Ganso, Coutinho, G.Jesus, G.Barbosa. Most of their players become known after a stint at Shaktar not before. It is undoubtedly great scouting of course.
  14. Feb 24, 2018
    #14

    SCP Full Member

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    looks clear you don't know much about Brazil to say only Bernard was well known.
  15. Feb 24, 2018
    #15

    RooneyLegend Full Member

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    okay okay, lets say the others weren't as well known as the players i listed.
  16. Feb 24, 2018
    #16

    SCP Full Member

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    Spot on mate, Facundo Ferreyra came from Velez, Fred from Internacional, Marlos from São Paulo, ask any South American poster about those clubs and they will tell there is no difference.

    In the past those players would come to Portugal, now they go to Shaktar, Russia or even bloody Watford.

    Money buys everything you want :D
  17. Feb 24, 2018
    #17

    RooneyLegend Full Member

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    I'm struggling to get your point.
  18. Feb 24, 2018
    #18

    SCP Full Member

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    Never mind we're just saying similar things with different words
  19. Feb 24, 2018
    #19

    RooneyLegend Full Member

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    Fair enough
  20. Feb 24, 2018
    #20

    bebeanderson Banned

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    Some of that was good scouting though. Marlos was under utilized and never seen as a huge prospect, apart from scouts and inside people. Fred was also never talked about really, but that is common for his position. Taison went to Metalist first, but he was a pretty big deal. Douglas Costa was a pretty big deal.

    They go for the Southern Brazilian players more though, they get much less hype due to the media focusing on Sao Paulo and Rio teams. Also players from that region seem more industrious or used to the cold or whatever. Fernandinho and Jadson were also form that part of the country. If Jadson could have spent his prime in Valencia, Porto or some team of that caliber, he would be seen at least as good as Mata imo. Great little player.

    Sometimes it seems like they hang on to players too much though. I have no idea what Dentinho is doing there still, awful player. He must be the entertainer or something. Signing Azevedo, Dodo and Alan Patrik was also baffling. I swear I wish I could scout for some Euro teams.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  21. Feb 24, 2018
    #21

    Fenomeno9 Full Member

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    Douglas Costa, Wellington Nem, Bernard, Alex teixeira, was considered top talents when they choose Shakhtar. While I understand why our talents choose this route, I still hate it.