Should the club hire a Director of Football?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Lemansky, Jul 23, 2018.

  1. Jul 23, 2018
    #1

    Lemansky Full Member

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    Several years after the great man retired I have come to the conclusion that we as a club lack a vision on how we want to play, what kind of players we need and what kind of managers who is suitable.

    There is a big hole between the manager and the CEO. We lack continuity and I think a knowledgeable and respected Dof would be a rational appointment in our situation.

    What do you guys think?
  2. Jul 23, 2018
    #2

    Zlatattack Full Member

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    RW, LB, CB and then think about a DoF.
  3. Jul 23, 2018
    #3

    Dolf Full Member

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    Yes absolutely.
    We need to have a plan for the future, and us hiring a new manager every 3 years shouldn't get in the way of that plan.
    Let the club decide which players we're going to sell and buy instead of the manager, this way we don't have to "rebuild" every time we get a new one.
  4. Jul 23, 2018
    #4

    Macern SeARcHeS iMagEs oF fO0tbAlLeRs bAllSaCkS

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    In hindsight we should’ve hired a DoF after Fergie retired. However I wouldn’t want one right now. Mourinho has a good transfer track record and I’m sure he thinks that letting him decide on who to buy will give us the best chance of reaching top level.

    If/when he leaves, I really hope we’ll get a DoF.
  5. Jul 23, 2018
    #5

    buckooo1978 Full Member

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    we had the exact same conversation last year and it is a great idea - it seemed the club were looking for one? there were DoFs mooted but nothing ever came of it I think

    we'd come up with a broad footballing philosophy and managers would be selected that fit those ideas

    we could target players and planning would be with the medium to long term in mind

    instead we are a reactive club and Van Gaal/Mourinho have been hired with being competitive in mind rather than playing a certain way

    transfers have been strange and focused on names rather than addressing issues with the squad.... we seem to work on things when it is too late....that's the sense I get
  6. Jul 23, 2018
    #6

    iHicksy Full Member

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    God yes. It's absolutely bizarre. We still operate with this SAF model where Woodward has replaced Gill doing both transfers and business deals. It makes little sense. One thing Chelsea etc have gotten absolutely spot on is the DOF. Look at this season, they were in management limbo and still managed to sign three players. They chop and change managers on a seasonal basis and it has little to no impact on their ability to conduct transfers.
  7. Jul 23, 2018
    #7

    astracrazy New Member

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    I'd be up for a DOF providing the manager still has some input. I think that's important to ensure you can bring in the big managers. The way it works at Man City seems to work pretty well....
  8. Jul 23, 2018
    #8

    Miscemayl Full Member

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    No, we don't need someone that takes no responsibility for the results.

    If we hire DoF and he hires the manager and it goes wrong, should the DoF be sacked? If no, what is he responsible for? If yes, what's the point?

    Also, what's the point of having a manager that can't control who he buys and sells? Any of the top managers would not accept that and even if they do, they will have conflicts very quickly
  9. Jul 23, 2018
    #9

    tenpoless Full Member

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    Yes and not necessarily because Woodward is bad at transfers but the market's complexity have changed. Fees are crazier, talents are harder to find and other clubs have easier access to them than We are unless if They're British. Woodward also does a lot of commercial and sponsorship deals based on what We're seeing. It'd be nice to have someone to keep an eye on possible transfers full time while also making sure We'll sign the right players to keep moving the club forward, regardless of who the manager might be.

    No more waiting for a player to retire before replacing him, no more signing players that doesn't even fit the club or "only for the manager", no more working on deals on the last days of the window. Because let's face it, if you have someone who's good at something and has a lot of time to work on it, the result will be much better than if the same person does a lot of other works by himself.
  10. Jul 23, 2018
    #10

    Castia Full Member

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    Something is needed our transfer recruitment is awful.
  11. Jul 23, 2018
    #11

    SqualorVictoria New Member

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    I guess this should be your priority at the club right now, unless the board really wants to feck Mourinho off and would hire a DoF to accompany him.
  12. Jul 23, 2018
    #12

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt Scouse Lover

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    We are using the same model for a type of manager that doesn't exist anymore .
    Been saying we need a DoF for a few years now.
  13. Jul 23, 2018
    #13

    Judas Open to offers

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    After the Jose reign ends, I'd be surprised if we don't get one. The club will simply see how much money has been wasted and think something has to change. Hopefully.
  14. Jul 23, 2018
    #14

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt Scouse Lover

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    Couldn't have put it better. In the last five years, we've hired three managers with three completely different philosophies. How does that help? When we hire a manager, we have no idea of how we want to play, we have no footballing vision as a club.
    This club is very reactive. If for some reason, Mourinho is sacked, pretty sure we would just hire the next available person. Who will then say he wants nothing to do with the squad Mourinho has built. It's beyond bonkers.
    Look at all the top clubs? They have continuity of vision. Each manager comes in to improve what he has met while the club bring in quality where necessary.
    It's not rocket science why the team constantly look like they have seen each other for the first time.
    This club. Weds to buck up its ideas.
  15. Jul 23, 2018
    #15

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

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    What if we get a shit dof?
    What if the dof has a different view with the manager (whoever our manager is)?
    What if the dof buys a shit player?
    What if the dof doesnt like the manager, or vice versa?
  16. Jul 23, 2018
    #16

    Mr Anderson Eats, shoots, leaves

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    It works similar to the relationship between Jose and Ed Woodword already. DoF will just concentrate on the footballing side, leave Woodie stick at commercial which he is very good at.
  17. Jul 23, 2018
    #17

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt Scouse Lover

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    We have spent £600m in four years building two different sqauds. One for a manager that wants possession above all else and another willing to sacrifice the ball against any team that will venture a yard past the halfway line.
    Then we complain the team looks disjointed.
    What happens if he gets the sack? We sign a manager that wants to gengenpress...then he says he needs a new team for that.
  18. Jul 23, 2018
    #18

    Reiver Full Member

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    I think we need to. Think the reason we haven't is SAFs legacy of the manager being top dog, but we need to move on.
  19. Jul 23, 2018
    #19

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt Scouse Lover

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    Just have a look at how our briefings have changed in the last few months. First, Mourinho needs this, then he doesn't need that again then now wants to concentrate on this.
    If you want to give a manager free reign over a squad, you have to give him everything and be willing to bin the players he doesn't want regardless of what it costs you.
    City have gone about givinggthe manager free reign the right way. Just look at their turnover.
    We have a manager stuckk with half a squad he has made no secret about not rating.
  20. Jul 23, 2018
    #20

    Raw Full Member

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    To me it seems like there's little direction of where this club is heading. It seems like we just buy short term solutions to fix gaps in the squad created by the departure of each manager we gamble on. The player turnover we've witnessed over the years is fecking extraordinary. I can't even determine what our style is meant to be. It's not counter attacking, we're shit at that. It's just some weird defensive kind of football where the attackers are given no particular direction, relying on moments of individual brilliance.

    Mourinho has been good at getting us back to being competitive by focusing solely on results, which in turn helps attract better players. Now's the time to implement a philosophy (as LVG would say it!) in the club and I highly doubt Mourinho can do that. When he goes, which will probably be really soon, I really hope we don't feck up the transition once again.

    But we don't really have the right people to oversee this. Once Mourinho goes, who's in charge of handing the transition? Money man Woodward? A DoF would at least find suitable managers and players to give the club an actual identity. Problem is, who? I know feck all about the best DoF's, I'm sure there are people at the club who does. But it's yet another gamble that I'm not sure Woodward would want to take. He'd probably take the safe option, go after a big name manager who was good in the past and buy whoever he wants.
  21. Jul 23, 2018
    #21

    hungrywing Full Member

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    Hypothetically then what would this man or woman's directives be? Best fullbacks, swashbuckling wingers, high tempo, attacking football, the other positions are obvious? No signing anyone over 26? No transfer fee above 45m? No wage above 180k/w?
  22. Jul 23, 2018
    #22

    Marcky411 Full Member

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    Yet that same manager has bought players and moved them on, he needs to buy a new CD every summer and still only plays the ones left over from SAF reign. Plays certain players every week no matter what, doesn't matter if they perform or not and benches others that had been performing. Occasionally plays other players to keep the press and the fans quiet to just throw those players under the bus in the press as not being good enough, just to prove a point. How can you expect a player to perform when his main responsibly is to warm a bench.
    If that is the mentality that should have full control over everything, then Utd are really heading for dark times. I personally think Jose is the living/walking proof why Utd need so desperately appoint a DOF, as under Jose we have no style of play, no vision and no direction.
    His number one objective since he arrived has been to try bench and sell every player bought by his predecessor, LvG.
  23. Jul 23, 2018
    #23

    FootyGirl88

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    Yes - all the big clubs use this model it's the way forward.
  24. Jul 23, 2018
    #24

    Ramshock CAF Pilib De Brún Translator

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    It wont matter if the Glazers wont spend
  25. Jul 23, 2018
    #25

    Ramshock CAF Pilib De Brún Translator

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    Jesus what a dreadful post. Do you read your own shit or what?
  26. Jul 23, 2018
    #26

    Josep Dowling Full Member

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    The club has been nothing short of a disaster since David Gill and Sir Alex Ferguson left. If we had a DoF at the time it could have potentially made the transition smoother. However that doesn't mean everything would be rosy though. Look at Liverpool with their transfer committee. Managers like Pep, Klopp and Jose know who they want to sign. If we had a DoF right now I could just imagine more problems with Jose as manager.

    Do we need a DoF for direction? I don't think so. The club's philosophy was built on attacking football and width. It is what the fans expect and want to see. Now you don't need to be a football specialist to know if you want attacking football you hire a manager with an attacking philosophy. Instead we hire Moyes - defensive, Van Gaal - possession based, Mourinho - defensive. What exactly did the board expect to happen? Even if we win the league I'm not sure it would be enough if we did that winning most games 1-0.
  27. Jul 23, 2018
    #27

    sal klita Banned

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    I dont' think that most of the board familiar with offside rule and you expect from them to know which manager is suitable. They are clearly not football people. That's why you need DOF or core of football people to run the football aspects of the club.
  28. Jul 23, 2018
    #28

    Josep Dowling Full Member

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    You could easily flip that argument though and say the whole reason they were poor last year was because of the DoF. Conte made it very clear that he did not want most of the players the board had purchased. Chelsea spent over £200m, I don't think a single player they signed improved them last season.


    The board contains Sir Alex Ferguson and Sir Bobby Charlton. They have just as much say as anyone on who we sign as a manager. If anything they will have the most say otherwise why are they on the board?
  29. Jul 23, 2018
    #29

    FootyGirl88

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    1) In football there's always risks if they failed then you would replace them, just like you would if players or managers fail.
    2) When you have a DOF you don't have a manager you have a head coach - they would be the ones hiring them so it's unlikely they are going to hire someone with a different philosophy to theirs.
    3) The DOF works alongside the head scout in terms of recruitment.
    4) See question 2

    :)
  30. Jul 23, 2018
    #30

    sal klita Banned

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    The sirs have no say on football aspects and they are too old. They made huge contribution for the club, but now the club need modern football persons.
  31. Jul 23, 2018
    #31

    Jezpeza New Member

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    I think yes 100%. In an ideal situation there would be a director of football that would discuss transfer targets and positions for improvement with the manager and then oversee scouting etc and come up with shortlists. Then Jose can choose an a and a b option and Then the director of football would sort out the transfers. Director of football can also sort out contracts etc.
    Leaves Jose to sort out the first team affairs and Woodward to focus on his spreadsheets and sponsorship deals.
    I think people think the director of football would be meddling in first team affairs rather than acting as an administrator. Or is that a technical director? Heard that term before as well
  32. Jul 23, 2018
    #32

    Andersons Dietician Full Member

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    They sort of went this path with LVG then bottled it. They put themselves on that path, Jose became available, LVG wasn’t getting much praise so they tore up the process of implementing it.

    It’s a weird thing as for me the Dof then becomes the most powerful man in the club, and I don’t really see someone like Jose playing ball with that too long unless it’s someone with the same thinking as him. Saying that, if the DOF wasn’t of a similar mindset then Jose probably wouldn’t be our manager.
  33. Jul 23, 2018
    #33

    Damien Self-Aware RedCafe Database (and Admin) Staff

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    Pretty likely that we'll bring one in when Mourinho eventually leaves (hopefully after years of success). The rebuilding work behind the scenes with scouting and academy was pointing towards this and we were even linked with a few DoF's including Monchi.
  34. Jul 23, 2018
    #34

    AndyJ1985 Full Member Verified Moaner

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    Yes! I've been wanting a DoF at United since Ferguson left. Our way of doing things is outdated. Bin off Mourinho and give our management an overhaul with a DoF overseeing everything. Perhaps then we'll finally start to make real progress.
  35. Jul 24, 2018
    #35

    harms Way Staff

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    Morata, Bakayoko, Drinkwater, Barkley, Zappacosta, Emerson, Giroud, Batshuayi... seems to be working out for them
  36. Jul 24, 2018
    #36

    iHicksy Full Member

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    To be fair, last season was the first season it hasn't worked for them. And that seems to be because they have changed their transfer strategy...or funding. I still think it's a better approach than the structure, or lack of, that we have in place.
  37. Jul 24, 2018
    #37

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate

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    I'm not too sure about the meaning of that. With FFP the Glazers can't spend and the club itself spent a lot of money in the last 5 years, in wage and transfer fees.
  38. Jul 24, 2018
    #38

    SV_Planegg Full Member

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    With today's players and their marketing activities and other distractions from their core competence (which is still playing football), coaching skills and the time invested in mental coaching are more important than ever, so the time a manager has to focus on other parts of his job is getting fewer and fewer. A head coach supported by a DoF imo provides the most chances of success with today's requirements in this line of business. Imo in the end the success rate depends on the people chosen for their respective tasks and how good they support each other, so it's not a sure fire way to improvement but I still support the idea of United hiring a DoF.
  39. Jul 24, 2018
    #39

    PoTMS Full Member

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    Director of football is a no brainer at top football clubs now. We're years behind the major European clubs in this sense. Having a manager at the helm for as long as we did can do that to a club but feck me, you'd think 6 years was enough to pull our finger out.
  40. Jul 24, 2018
    #40

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate

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    Is it fair to say that their mistake was to hire a manager that tactically didn't fit with their roster building philosophy? They tried to accommodate him to some extent but were clearly out of their comfort zone.

    Edit:

    As for the usual questions, the first thing is that the executives have to be competent, they need to be able to identify competent people which should already be the case, since they are the ones hiring the manager, the academy director, chiefs scouts among other high ranked positions. The advantage with a DOF is simply that while someone like Woodward is great with finance and administration, having a mainstay expert in football is a plus when it comes to plan and anticipate the future of the club.
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018